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#3524938 - 02/23/12 09:18 PM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications ***** [Re: WhistlinggDeath]  
Joined: Jan 2007
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DaveP63 Online cool
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DaveP63  Online Cool
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Indiana, USA
SAS already has their version of an AI mod. All the blind spots without the rolling and weaving.


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#3524975 - 02/23/12 10:31 PM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications [Re: DaveP63]  
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SkyHigh Offline
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Ireland
Dave, that is correct, but the view of some in SAS, which I think is correct, is that the TD AI mod is superior to Cert's, and they may replace the latter with the TD ai in their ai package. Great work, and something to look forward to.

#3525032 - 02/24/12 12:30 AM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications [Re: SkyHigh]  
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Aviar Offline
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Passaic County, NJ USA
Originally Posted By: SkyHigh
Dave, that is correct, but the view of some in SAS, which I think is correct, is that the TD AI mod is superior to Cert's, and they may replace the latter with the TD ai in their ai package. Great work, and something to look forward to.



Cert was no FM guy or even a programmer. He was just a modder who kind of fell into a good thing. He knew how to edit the AI settings and just changed some of the basic numbers. However, since he was the only one doing such things, he became an instant folk hero.

He was soon inundated with so many requests to change even more of the AI, he must have realized he was in over his head. During this time his forum appearances declined until he simply disappeared from the scene. To me, it seemed like he really did not possess the necessary knowledge of the code to make any more relevant changes. In reality, the Cert AI was really not much different than Oleg's AI. It reduced the hated barrel-rolling and a couple of other small issues.

The 4.11 patch is a major overhaul of the AI. It's like nothing else that's come before it. If you spend any time at all with the new AI, this is immediately apparent.

So yes, the 4.11 AI is easily superior to any AI mod out there right now.

Sure, it has some quirks, like the 'checking 6' maneuvers. However, these issues may be addressed in future updates.

Aviar


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#3525082 - 02/24/12 02:14 AM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications [Re: WhistlinggDeath]  
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,833
DaveP63 Online cool
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DaveP63  Online Cool
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Posts: 1,833
Indiana, USA
K


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#3525213 - 02/24/12 12:14 PM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications [Re: WhistlinggDeath]  
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4Shades Offline
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Perth, Western Australia
Quote:
I thought I'd read last year that HSFX said they would not be modding past 4.10.1, I think it was.


Definitely not true.

Quote:
Well, not quite exact: I asked for a working landing approach instrument on late german planes. I think TD does listen to observations.


That is perfectly consistent with what I wrote. Just because you asked for a feature that TD eventually put in, doesn't mean that the majority of people asked for it too, which was my point. TD definitely listens, but they also come up with a lot of things that most people never even notice.

Quote:
And it should not be our job, as the select few souls who like to fly American boom and zoom planes to take it in the butt for yet another round of "polishing".


Sure, I agree having a long iterative development cycle can be annoying. However, I think you'll find that some people will be much more indignant about inaccuracies if they detrimentally affect the performance of their favourite plane, as compared to inaccuracies that boost the performance of their favourite plane. It's these kinds of biased over-reactions that tend to turn developers away from user forums. Rest assured, the few outspoken individuals in this thread do not represent all US BnZ aircraft pilots, and not all of those pilots are as vocal in their displeasure at 4.11 as some are here.

Cheers,
4S


IV/JG7_4Shades

SEOW Developer
#3525359 - 02/24/12 04:16 PM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications [Re: I B Spectre]  
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Maple Ridge, B.C., Canada
Originally Posted By: I B Spectre
I thought I'd read last year that HSFX said they would not be modding past 4.10.1, I think it was.


Well, if you look at their forum, it indeed appears that they will be the first ones out of the gate with a full 4.11 mod.

#3525388 - 02/24/12 05:03 PM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications [Re: WhistlinggDeath]  
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Greybeard Offline
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Italy
Originally Posted By: WhistlinggDeath - #3522632 - February 20, 2012 02:53
Thanks for the info and check your messages in a day or two.


I didn't get any message confused . What happened?

GB

#3525566 - 02/24/12 08:38 PM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications [Re: Greybeard]  
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Ozzie
Excellent news re HSFX and 4.11. Concur re the 4.11 AI. Very good indeed.


The lurker formerly known as Deltahawk and Deltahawk53
#3525701 - 02/25/12 12:09 AM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications [Re: 4Shades]  
Joined: Apr 2002
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Nimits Offline
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United States of America
Originally Posted By: 4Shades
However, I think you'll find that some people will be much more indignant about inaccuracies if they detrimentally affect the performance of their favourite plane, as compared to inaccuracies that boost the performance of their favourite plane.


While I agree that is true, I think in this instance a case can be made that the new FM/Engine model is at best a sideways and probably a backwards move in terms of realistically representing several of the US and German fighters specifically. Something just seems a bit off in the way TD implemented things.

#3525823 - 02/25/12 05:02 AM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications [Re: Redwolf2]  
Joined: Apr 2005
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I B Spectre Offline
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Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Redwolf2
Originally Posted By: I B Spectre
I thought I'd read last year that HSFX said they would not be modding past 4.10.1, I think it was.


Well, if you look at their forum, it indeed appears that they will be the first ones out of the gate with a full 4.11 mod.


That's good to know Redwoldf2. I haven't been following the forums too closely, so I likely missed more recent posts.

#3526696 - 02/26/12 11:57 PM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications [Re: 4Shades]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 605
WhistlinggDeath Offline
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WhistlinggDeath  Offline
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Posts: 605
La Jolla, CA
Originally Posted By: 4Shades
Quote:
I thought I'd read last year that HSFX said they would not be modding past 4.10.1, I think it was.


Definitely not true.

Quote:
Well, not quite exact: I asked for a working landing approach instrument on late german planes. I think TD does listen to observations.


That is perfectly consistent with what I wrote. Just because you asked for a feature that TD eventually put in, doesn't mean that the majority of people asked for it too, which was my point. TD definitely listens, but they also come up with a lot of things that most people never even notice.

Quote:
And it should not be our job, as the select few souls who like to fly American boom and zoom planes to take it in the butt for yet another round of "polishing".


Sure, I agree having a long iterative development cycle can be annoying. However, I think you'll find that some people will be much more indignant about inaccuracies if they detrimentally affect the performance of their favourite plane, as compared to inaccuracies that boost the performance of their favourite plane. It's these kinds of biased over-reactions that tend to turn developers away from user forums. Rest assured, the few outspoken individuals in this thread do not represent all US BnZ aircraft pilots, and not all of those pilots are as vocal in their displeasure at 4.11 as some are here.

Cheers,
4S


Yes, I agree, but I dont see many others stepping forward to note some of the problems. I do enjoy the P51 and Corsair, and flying them has always been difficult, especially in wide planeset maps online. Like so many others, I hope they can be realistically modeled. After seven years of thousands of kind requests from across the globe, I think the time has finally arrived to fix these American flight models.

Last edited by WhistlinggDeath; 02/27/12 12:01 AM.

If you can defeat me in a fair same altitude duel, you are either Hartmann's ghost or you have a ganja problem that needs treatment.

Like asking weird questions and are good at math? Maybe you can join us at the Jacobs School of Engineering, UC San Diego. Tackling the grand mysteries of the age with science.

At the core of most of life's deep mysteries, is the language that Mother Nature truly speaks in, ..... mathematics.
#3526697 - 02/26/12 11:59 PM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications [Re: Greybeard]  
Joined: Feb 2011
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WhistlinggDeath Offline
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WhistlinggDeath  Offline
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Posts: 605
La Jolla, CA
Greybeard, we asked Helios (our lab AI program) to shut off all IL2 installs in the lab for two weeks since we have an NSF grant application due. I will get back to you in my free time later this week. Apologies for the delay.


If you can defeat me in a fair same altitude duel, you are either Hartmann's ghost or you have a ganja problem that needs treatment.

Like asking weird questions and are good at math? Maybe you can join us at the Jacobs School of Engineering, UC San Diego. Tackling the grand mysteries of the age with science.

At the core of most of life's deep mysteries, is the language that Mother Nature truly speaks in, ..... mathematics.
#3535713 - 03/09/12 10:28 PM Re: Patch 4.11 and Its Implications [Re: WhistlinggDeath]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1
vracan Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1
I've noticed overheat happens more quicker on the spit too in v4.11!....
But big deal, I just need to adjust my flying habits.
The improved AI and 6dof is worth the trade-off anyways as far as I'm concerned!
I also have up3 version but rarely play it cuz it stutters and has lower fps on my pc(1 year old with ati 5770).

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