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#3521126 - 02/17/12 11:34 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Quote:


I dont know...its alomost a year since release and its still broken for most, just check the numbers online.



Are you only comparing IL2COD to IL246 online? Because for a broken game that has hardly any numbers online (as you say) there isn't a single other sim out there besides 46 that has as many people playing it as IL2COD. We usually have more on our server than the entire ROF population. DCS barely has anyone online. Could you name some other sims with a good online population? I'd just like to know what online sims I seem to be missing.

As far as airquake. Your opinion of that differs from mine. A team, objective style server is hardly airquake to me. Sure people dogfight, but many on coms (usually well over 20 people) fly together to either attack or defend various objects. To me, airquake is airstarting 500m from your opponent and simply fighting to the death, with icons and external views on. But hey, maybe the definition of airquake has changed recently.

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#3521127 - 02/17/12 11:38 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: ATAG_Bliss]  
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Originally Posted By: ATAG_Bliss

Quote:


I dont know...its alomost a year since release and its still broken for most, just check the numbers online.



Are you only comparing IL2COD to IL246 online? Because for a broken game that has hardly any numbers online (as you say) there isn't a single other sim out there besides 46 that has as many people playing it as IL2COD. We usually have more on our server than the entire ROF population. DCS barely has anyone online. Could you name some other sims with a good online population? I'd just like to know what online sims I seem to be missing.

As far as airquake. Your opinion of that differs from mine. A team, objective style server is hardly airquake to me. Sure people dogfight, but many on coms (usually well over 20 people) fly together to either attack or defend various objects. To me, airquake is airstarting 500m from your opponent and simply fighting to the death, with icons and external views on. But hey, maybe the definition of airquake has changed recently.


The definition hasn't changed - what you describe is "Air Quake" if not in theory, then it's what it normally degenerates into. I know, I used to check into WarClouds now and then, and soon realized CoOps were the only way to go.

#3521132 - 02/17/12 11:44 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Coops were always too scripted for me. Start from point A. Go to point B to shoot or bomb at w/e target is there. Last one standing = mission end. Unless something has changed for coops, that's how every single one of them I've ever played happened. Now something like SEOW is a completely different thing, but that doesn't exactly run 24/7. So because people can respawn is that why you call it airquake? Perhaps it's because they don't have to follow a scripted navpoint/route? The more dynamic the better IMO. But that's just me.

#3521135 - 02/17/12 11:46 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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No, because it just degenerates into people spawning and going hunting - every single time IME.
CoOps you have a mission, you fly the mission, achieve/Fail at the objective, land - satisfying.

#3521138 - 02/17/12 11:48 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Chivas]  
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Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Gambit21
From all my reading here, it seems getting the AI "perfect" is not the issue, but rather getting it at least
past the point of seeming brain dead for now.
Am I wrong?


Everyone understand how bad the AI is now, I'm just saying no matter how much they fix, it will never be perfect, its just too complicated.


I see, thanks Chivas.
I think we'd just like to see some fixes, even incremental ones, ASAP.

#3521147 - 02/18/12 12:00 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Bisher & Biggle07: Not again - okay? I'm inclined to just edit the posts and let this one slide - but if either of you want to pursue the matter further PM me. (Bisher, you have PMs turned off so there is no way I can speak privately with both of you).

#3521149 - 02/18/12 12:03 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Ok the news about the FMs is a good start but the rest is again the same old stuff.
The drivable vehicles??? jeez you couldn't make it up.


Actually... Oleg mused about this in the FB days - he always wanted to head in the direction of playable armour. If one goes back further, I'd asked in 2000 if we'd be able to capture a side car and drive for the Russian side of the fronts after bailing out over enemy territory... so yes, you can make it up wink I think it is a cool way of showing off the engine and doesn't require that much extra programming for the reward. Graphics are closer to Arma (not ARMA II) but the ballistics and world size should be excellent.

I just can't believe there isn't a tide of "its too orange" posts (along the lines of "I've seen England, England is a slightly different shade of absurdly green").

#3521170 - 02/18/12 12:28 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Gambit21]  
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Originally Posted By: Gambit21
No, because it just degenerates into people spawning and going hunting - every single time IME.
CoOps you have a mission, you fly the mission, achieve/Fail at the objective, land - satisfying.



I flew Warclouds for years, and most players on both sides were concentrating on winning the map by taking out their objectives. Yes there were a few who's sole object was only to dogfight, but they were of realistic use to the missions as they usually had to fly over the objective areas to find air targets. So not only did you have find the targets, but avoid those flyer's covering the target areas, and once you dropped your bombs, cover the guys coming in after you. I suppose if people weren't on Comms they would have no idea what was actually going on, unless they read the briefing.

Warclouds was perfect for my situation. I could join the server 24/7 no waiting, with an ongoing objective based battle going on. With a new map loading the minute the other map was won.

Last edited by Chivas; 02/18/12 12:39 AM.

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#3521177 - 02/18/12 12:37 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Avimimus]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: Avimimus
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Ok the news about the FMs is a good start but the rest is again the same old stuff.
The drivable vehicles??? jeez you couldn't make it up.


Actually... Oleg mused about this in the FB days - he always wanted to head in the direction of playable armour. If one goes back further, I'd asked in 2000 if we'd be able to capture a side car and drive for the Russian side of the fronts after bailing out over enemy territory... so yes, you can make it up wink I think it is a cool way of showing off the engine and doesn't require that much extra programming for the reward. Graphics are closer to Arma (not ARMA II) but the ballistics and world size should be excellent.

I just can't believe there isn't a tide of "its too orange" posts (along the lines of "I've seen England, England is a slightly different shade of absurdly green").


I agree Olegs original plan for the new game engine was to future proof the sim technically and provide player control for most systems, for a a broad range of uses. Seperating the game engine into modules has allowed them to upgrade one module without effecting the other modules. Much like they are doing with the current Graphics Engine Module.


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#3521179 - 02/18/12 12:44 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: ATAG_Bliss]  
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Bliss, how do you get your numbers for RoF? I've yet to see any published numbers for it showing there are less than 70-80 people playing it. I would be shocked if RoF really has less players than you have on your server. Realistically, although you have the most populated server out there, I think even CoD is in trouble if even half of the players that have the game and are able to play it are showing up on your server. Last I remember, you had about 2k player names (didn't give us the unique IP #s). Development is going to be on a tremendously tight budget if that's even the case.

I would say probably 75-85% of the online players have ventured to your server, but I hope that's not the entire population of the game... it would be a sad case indeed.


Originally Posted By: ATAG_Bliss

Quote:


I dont know...its alomost a year since release and its still broken for most, just check the numbers online.



Are you only comparing IL2COD to IL246 online? Because for a broken game that has hardly any numbers online (as you say) there isn't a single other sim out there besides 46 that has as many people playing it as IL2COD. We usually have more on our server than the entire ROF population. DCS barely has anyone online. Could you name some other sims with a good online population? I'd just like to know what online sims I seem to be missing.

As far as airquake. Your opinion of that differs from mine. A team, objective style server is hardly airquake to me. Sure people dogfight, but many on coms (usually well over 20 people) fly together to either attack or defend various objects. To me, airquake is airstarting 500m from your opponent and simply fighting to the death, with icons and external views on. But hey, maybe the definition of airquake has changed recently.

#3521191 - 02/18/12 01:03 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: cheesehawk]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: cheesehawk
Bliss, how do you get your numbers for RoF? I've yet to see any published numbers for it showing there are less than 70-80 people playing it. I would be shocked if RoF really has less players than you have on your server. Realistically, although you have the most populated server out there, I think even CoD is in trouble if even half of the players that have the game and are able to play it are showing up on your server. Last I remember, you had about 2k player names (didn't give us the unique IP #s). Development is going to be on a tremendously tight budget if that's even the case.

I would say probably 75-85% of the online players have ventured to your server, but I hope that's not the entire population of the game... it would be a sad case indeed.


Originally Posted By: ATAG_Bliss

Quote:


I dont know...its alomost a year since release and its still broken for most, just check the numbers online.



Are you only comparing IL2COD to IL246 online? Because for a broken game that has hardly any numbers online (as you say) there isn't a single other sim out there besides 46 that has as many people playing it as IL2COD. We usually have more on our server than the entire ROF population. DCS barely has anyone online. Could you name some other sims with a good online population? I'd just like to know what online sims I seem to be missing.

As far as airquake. Your opinion of that differs from mine. A team, objective style server is hardly airquake to me. Sure people dogfight, but many on coms (usually well over 20 people) fly together to either attack or defend various objects. To me, airquake is airstarting 500m from your opponent and simply fighting to the death, with icons and external views on. But hey, maybe the definition of airquake has changed recently.


It will be impossible to have a large online COD community until the sim is optimized. The next graphic update should address this situation allowing far greater frame rates, less stutters, and much fewer CTD's, etc. Then we should see the online community grow, with more people and servers.


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#3521203 - 02/18/12 01:17 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: cheesehawk]  
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Originally Posted By: cheesehawk
Bliss, how do you get your numbers for RoF? I've yet to see any published numbers for it showing there are less than 70-80 people playing it. I would be shocked if RoF really has less players than you have on your server. Realistically, although you have the most populated server out there, I think even CoD is in trouble if even half of the players that have the game and are able to play it are showing up on your server. Last I remember, you had about 2k player names (didn't give us the unique IP #s). Development is going to be on a tremendously tight budget if that's even the case.

I would say probably 75-85% of the online players have ventured to your server, but I hope that's not the entire population of the game... it would be a sad case indeed.



I get my numbers from here: (the server list) http://online.riseofflight.net/ru/



Right now there's almost 30 more people playing COD than ROF. 46 on our server now (almost more than all of ROF - this on a Friday night) Again, if you want to compare it to a supposedly "up to date, fixed sim", then I'd say IL2COD isn't the one hurting in this department at all.

And the last players stats count was 4 days after the stats went live. At that point there was already over 1200 unique users. I have no idea how many have been compiled by now, but I'd say it's well over 2000.

So again, can anyone explain to me what modern sims have more players? I just have to know what justification people have to say online numbers are abysmal in this sim. What do you call online in other sims that work right then??? A complete failure?

#3521244 - 02/18/12 02:34 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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IL2 works perfect and has up to 700 people playing.

#3521245 - 02/18/12 02:39 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: ATAG_Bliss]  
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Online flight sims seem just to be a pretty small niche. A quick eyeballing (nothing scientific) for me shows about:

- 250 or so on IL-2 (not a modern sim, but the one to beat I guess)
- 60 or so on DCS-A10C / Black Shark. About 30 servers.
- 30 or so CloD
- 25 or so RoF

All these are dependent on times of day, plus number of servers up and running - Your mileage may vary etc. I don't know if MP numbers really prove much, as a good chunk must buy to play SP I guess. When CloD overtakes IL2 then that's a good healthy sign I think.

I say 'small niche' as it's surprisingly a small numbers compared to a few other game genres - it's sobering to realize how small our hobby is sometimes i.e steam stats from today (filtering out the twitchers):

- 62,000 concurrent Football Manager 5 players
- 20,000 concurrent Civ 5 players
- 6,000 Star Trek Online MMO players
- 7,300 Total War Shogun
- 1,400 Railworks players (not MP, but just playing but it's a steamworks title like CloD - peep peep)

Mothers and Fathers - don't let your sons and daughters go into flight sim software development - there's no money in it! smile

#3521291 - 02/18/12 03:54 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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I agree FF. Thats why only small groups of combat flight sim enthusiast are making combat flight sims, yet some in the community treat them like they're a soulless big development only in it for the money, and to screw them over.


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#3521407 - 02/18/12 10:09 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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I've just seen and read the update and looking at the pieces there are some encouraging signs. Personally I can't see an early release of even a beta patch. There is the 3rd update and clip next week and they are working on the physics module as well, if they are looking to add that work to the update I guess 4-6 weeks.

Looking at it as a whole the concept of a 'full battle' sim has merits. I'm in a squad where there are people playing land based and flight sims at the same time and the idea of everyone being able to play in the same sim doing what they like would be incredible but in light of what I've seen of CoD since launch I can't shake the feeling that they are trying to run before they can walk. The modular design of CoD lends itself to this kind of sideways development but the Maddox crowd are flight sim developers and anyway who bought Cod to man a flak gun or drive a lorry ?

With a sound underlying game the implications of being able to bring together these different genres of gameplay are apparent to even the likes of me so to professional game developers it would surely be very ineresting ? If that is the case wouldn't 1C/Maddox be better placed for the future focusing there efforts to fixing the issues and replacing the placeholders. I think they would.

#3521416 - 02/18/12 11:02 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Hmm. First off, the terrain looks a bit nicer, thanks in part to the trees, what little of it was visible from the air
(ground views don't count).

But clearly, the creation of drivable british ground vehicles can only mean one thing: it is all part of the Great Plan.
There is a hugely complex and detailed dynamic campaign being created, which will include the possibility that the
initial air battle will be lost, Sealion will be launched, and a full scale invasion force will be engaged on the ground
in the home counties. As a pilot you may have to hop in your MG (all RAF pilots own MGs, dontcha know?) and dash off
to find an airfield not already overrun, before you can hope to even get airborne. Matildas will creak and trundle
about, trying to stave off the panzers so you will have somewhere to land and refuel.

What other reason could there possibly be?

#3521422 - 02/18/12 11:15 AM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Quote:
What other reason could there possibly be?

Battle of France?
Cheers
Keith

#3521503 - 02/18/12 03:59 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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North Africa?

#3521592 - 02/18/12 06:32 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: FIScott]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: FIScott
I've just seen and read the update and looking at the pieces there are some encouraging signs. Personally I can't see an early release of even a beta patch. There is the 3rd update and clip next week and they are working on the physics module as well, if they are looking to add that work to the update I guess 4-6 weeks.

Looking at it as a whole the concept of a 'full battle' sim has merits. I'm in a squad where there are people playing land based and flight sims at the same time and the idea of everyone being able to play in the same sim doing what they like would be incredible but in light of what I've seen of CoD since launch I can't shake the feeling that they are trying to run before they can walk. The modular design of CoD lends itself to this kind of sideways development but the Maddox crowd are flight sim developers and anyway who bought Cod to man a flak gun or drive a lorry ?

With a sound underlying game the implications of being able to bring together these different genres of gameplay are apparent to even the likes of me so to professional game developers it would surely be very ineresting ? If that is the case wouldn't 1C/Maddox be better placed for the future focusing there efforts to fixing the issues and replacing the placeholders. I think they would.


I agree eventually having a combined forces sim will be good for the genre. I'm also sure the vast majority of the development crew are working on the FM, DM, AI, Commands, Graphics, etc etc. as they should be. While one vehicle guy also necessary for rudimentary convoy control, etc doing the ground work for more advanced combined forces features, that could be incorporated much later in the series, shouldn't be a problem. There is no way the developer is stupid enough to regulate too many resources to ground war features in this critical period of development.


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