#3517861 - 02/13/12 07:45 PM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: MedinaES]
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,144
Tigerwulf
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My reference to pilot wings was because someone used pilot wings as evidence that flight games can be aimed at casual gamers. You can read my post in context above. Yes FSX had those tutorials, but if you read my first post (post 2 i think) i have no issue with missions etc. My issue is the fact that they feel it's ridiculous, crazy i think was said in the interview, that the whole world should be modelled with lots of airports. My opinion is that they should have taken FSX to the next level and left scenery add ons to orbx and the like
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#3518652 - 02/14/12 09:01 PM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: Tigerwulf]
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 75
oscarklein
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Q: It seems like the tradeoff you made - building richer, smaller locales to explore in the game - is the loss of the full, open world that could be explored in "Flight Simulator"?
A: The bet we've made is that to the non-hardcore simmer, flying the whole world isn't as interesting when there's nothing really interesting to see or do. I do get that for some segment of the audience that was one of the values - I can fly anywhere, into any airport, 25,000-odd airports was crazy.
But I think as you try to broaden and you want to bring in not the next million or two but the next 20 million or 30 million people, you say I will err on the side of more interesting area that's dense than the same amount of content spread all over the globe. There's a lot to do in Hawaii, and Hawaii is gorgeous.
I'm so sick of this, hey lets appeal to everyone. Yeah they'll make more money but they're creating an ethos of a shallow, pick up and play mentallity to flight simming. Why couldn't they have progressed with FSX taking it one stage further? they could add all the crap that they are doing with this to an actual flight sim so that when people get a taste for it they can progress within the sim. It seems as though Flight will just be a dead end for casual gamers that pick it up because where will they go when they need depth and true simulation? And no, fly anywhere into any airport isn't crazy it's aviation and it's what people that bought Flight Simulator wanted. I'm sure Hawaii is gorgeous, but there isn't 'alot to do' in aviation terms. There is in a car, or a micro light or v small GA aircraft. There's a little sight seeing. Everything is getting so watered down. Yes , yet another real SIM reduced to an arcade game for 12 year olds , justin beaber fans , and console gamers.
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#3520511 - 02/17/12 12:15 PM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: Duncan]
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 455
Whammo
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Hi all,
could we see military DLC which would make Flight also a combat flight simulator ? Combat flight simulators are more regional focused so lack of whole world is less important. And for a wide audience dogfights and bombing missions are attractive.
Any info about such feature ?
This is a good question. This is why Flight will also fail! Will I download it? Yes, because it's free. Will I pay for add-ons? I doubt it.
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#3520633 - 02/17/12 02:54 PM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: MedinaES]
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 481
magicalflyer
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Indonesia
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Why would a "civilian flight simulator" need bombs and guns just to make it attractive to "wide audience"?
"It ebbs and flows, shipmate. A hot woman and a cold beer will put all this in proper perspective."
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#3520652 - 02/17/12 03:18 PM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: MedinaES]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,814
Plainsman
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None of the MS Flight fanboys can point to a single CIVILIAN flight game that was a hit with the casual crowd. Where is the evidence such a market exists? Oh that's new. Now we are fanboys. Once again, no one has provided a single CIVILIAN flight game title that was a hit with the casual crowd, as evidence such a market exists. Flight will be a COLOSSAL BLUNDER by MS. Their "market" is a fantasy. That's why they hedge in their description in the hope that the flight SIM crowd will be fooled enough to buy this...this thing, when the market they really want proves to be nonexistent. MS would make far more money providing a serious, multi-core graphics update to current FSX - with upgraded airports, more A.I., more and better flyables, AND CHARGING FOR IT - instead of building a civilian flight game for a market (casual gamers) that only likes blow em up, arcade flight games with unrealistic physics like Ace Combat, and rarely plays games on a PC anyway. FSX owners is an INSTALLED market. It actually exists! You don't need to speculate. Flight's alleged casual market is a fantasy! It doesn't exist. Isn't it better from a business perspective to pursue a verifiable market than an imaginary one? There are millions of current FSX owners. Why would you not want to target them? Obviously MS in their delusion thought they could capture BOTH markets with "Flight." Maybe 5% of FSX owners will buy content for Flight. Maybe 2% of so-called casual gamers who even bother to try Flight (and there could be only 45 such people--remember it's on a computer not a console) will purchase additional content for it. Add it up and you've got EPIC FAIL!
Last edited by Plainsman; 02/17/12 03:22 PM.
Acer: XB 280HK 28" 3840 X 2160, 1ms, w/Nvidia GSync Corsair: White Graphite 760T Full Tower Corsair: 16GB Vengeance LPX 2800MHz RAM Corsair: SP2500 2.1 Gaming Speaker System INTEL: Six-Core, i7 5820K CPU @4.2Hz ASUS RTX OC 2080 Logitech 920 Wheel and Pedal System with Wheel Stand Pro Saitek Pro Flight Control System with Wheel Stand Pro Saitek X55 HOTAS XBOX One S Track IR5
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#3520894 - 02/17/12 07:47 PM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: Plainsman]
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,603
malibu43
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...
Once again, no one has provided a single CIVILIAN flight game title that was a hit with the casual crowd, as evidence such a market exists. Flight will be a COLOSSAL BLUNDER by MS. Their "market" is a fantasy. That's why they hedge in their description in the hope that the flight SIM crowd will be fooled enough to buy this...this thing, when the market they really want proves to be nonexistent.
...
Maybe 5% of FSX owners will buy content for Flight.
...
I'm just curious if you were able to try the Beta...? The reason I ask is that (in my opinion) your assumption that Flight won't appeal to the existing FSX market (or that only 5% will buy any content) is incorrect. Just my opinion. You, of course, are entitled to yours. But I was just curious what experience you're basing that opinion on.
Last edited by malibu43; 02/17/12 07:49 PM.
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#3521019 - 02/17/12 09:37 PM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: MedinaES]
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 481
magicalflyer
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Just treat Flight as a whole different flightsim than being the "next-gen MSFS", and I believe most of us veteran MSFS users will be able to welcome it without prejudice. As I said before, Flight's future fate is in our hands. Rejecting it just because it's not the next MSFS will only make us responsible for the murder of a potentially good civilian flightsim.
"It ebbs and flows, shipmate. A hot woman and a cold beer will put all this in proper perspective."
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#3521028 - 02/17/12 09:56 PM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: magicalflyer]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,814
Plainsman
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Just treat Flight as a whole different flightsim than being the "next-gen MSFS", and I believe most of us veteran MSFS users will be able to welcome it without prejudice. As I said before, Flight's future fate is in our hands. Rejecting it just because it's not the next MSFS will only make us responsible for the murder of a potentially good civilian flightsim. It can't be potentially good without the entire earth to fly in immediately! Right now, I'm enjoying the hell out of Antarctica X in FSX. How many years will it take at MS' pace before they make Antarctica available? Iran? Egypt? Israel? Brazil? All they've got is Hawaii? And what about a variety of planes? Airliners? Where are they? Airports? Air traffic? Where is all that? A hope and a dream?
Acer: XB 280HK 28" 3840 X 2160, 1ms, w/Nvidia GSync Corsair: White Graphite 760T Full Tower Corsair: 16GB Vengeance LPX 2800MHz RAM Corsair: SP2500 2.1 Gaming Speaker System INTEL: Six-Core, i7 5820K CPU @4.2Hz ASUS RTX OC 2080 Logitech 920 Wheel and Pedal System with Wheel Stand Pro Saitek Pro Flight Control System with Wheel Stand Pro Saitek X55 HOTAS XBOX One S Track IR5
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#3521069 - 02/17/12 10:33 PM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: Plainsman]
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,603
malibu43
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Just treat Flight as a whole different flightsim than being the "next-gen MSFS", and I believe most of us veteran MSFS users will be able to welcome it without prejudice. As I said before, Flight's future fate is in our hands. Rejecting it just because it's not the next MSFS will only make us responsible for the murder of a potentially good civilian flightsim. It can't be potentially good without the entire earth to fly in immediately! Right now, I'm enjoying the hell out of Antarctica X in FSX. How many years will it take at MS' pace before they make Antarctica available? Iran? Egypt? Israel? Brazil? All they've got is Hawaii? And what about a variety of planes? Airliners? Where are they? Airports? Air traffic? Where is all that? A hope and a dream? Yes, of course. Because for it to be considered "good" by anybody, it needs all those things you listed. Just because those are your requirements for a "good" flightsim doesn't mean that's what other require for a "good" flightsim. "Real Life" flying doesn't require that you fly all over the globe in large airliners, so why would a flight simulator require all of those things? I fly in "Real Life" and I've only flown one type of plane and haven't gone any more than 100 miles from my home airport. I'm still curious if you've tried the beta or not...
Last edited by malibu43; 02/17/12 10:33 PM.
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#3521077 - 02/17/12 10:39 PM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: MedinaES]
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 481
magicalflyer
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You're still treating Flight as FSX follow-up, plainsman. I was as angry as you when I first heard about Hawaii-only, no-AI issues. But some people say it's not bad at all, simulation-wise. Then I tried to look at it as a whole new, different sim, disassociating it from MSFS completely. And it works. Hawaii only? Fine. It's not MSFS, and I enjoy flying Huey in Vietnam Med+Evac just as much as flying any chopper in MSFS world. No AI? Well, now this is problem. Hopefully an addon will fix this later. YMMV, of course.
"It ebbs and flows, shipmate. A hot woman and a cold beer will put all this in proper perspective."
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#3521157 - 02/18/12 12:10 AM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: magicalflyer]
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7
Duncan
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Why would a "civilian flight simulator" need bombs and guns just to make it attractive to "wide audience"? Because Hawai today in an icon is so boring but on 1941 7th december with a P51 it could be fun.
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#3521181 - 02/18/12 12:47 AM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: Duncan]
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Posts: 481
magicalflyer
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Because Hawai today in an icon is so boring but on 1941 7th december with a P51 it could be fun.
I'm sorry, Duncan, but this is a civilian flightsim. It has an appeal of its own, it doesn't have to whore itself away like that. Besides, there's already a perfect sim available if you want to shoot something over Hawaii in 1940s.
"It ebbs and flows, shipmate. A hot woman and a cold beer will put all this in proper perspective."
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#3521189 - 02/18/12 12:58 AM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: Duncan]
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,603
malibu43
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Why would a "civilian flight simulator" need bombs and guns just to make it attractive to "wide audience"? Because Hawai today in an icon is so boring but on 1941 7th december with a P51 it could be fun. If folks think M$ is taking heat now, imagine what it will be like if they have a P-51 fighting Zeros over Pearl Harbor in 1941.
Last edited by malibu43; 02/18/12 12:59 AM.
Sager NP8671 17.3" Notebook, i74720HQ (3.6GHz), GTX 970M (3.0GB), 8GB DDR3 RAM, 1TB 7200RPM HD, TrackIR 4, CH HOTAS and rudder pedals
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#3521413 - 02/18/12 10:54 AM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: magicalflyer]
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7
Duncan
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I'm sorry, Duncan, but this is a civilian flightsim. It has an appeal of its own, it doesn't have to whore itself away like that. Besides, there's already a perfect sim available if you want to shoot something over Hawaii in 1940s. Sorry if i miss that but did MS officially tell it will be limited to a civilian flight game ? They also released CFS in the past which was rather well received. With the DLC logic they could unify miltarian and civilian games in one.
Last edited by Duncan; 02/18/12 10:55 AM.
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#3521428 - 02/18/12 11:51 AM
Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"
[Re: MedinaES]
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 481
magicalflyer
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Honestly, never came across official statement that says Flight is "civilian only". Neither have I ever found one about MSFS and X-Plane. But at least we all know they're designed as civilian flightsims. IMHO, it takes more than DLCs to make a military sim out of Flight (and MSFS and XPlane, for that matter). They have to consider things like, most importantly, weapons ballistic, AI (pilots, missiles, etc), damage modelling and campaign, among others. VRS did a great job bringing F/A-18E and all its weapons and enemies to MSFS world. But not enough. Not even close. I never use it for anything other than carrier qual and air refueling "missions".
"It ebbs and flows, shipmate. A hot woman and a cold beer will put all this in proper perspective."
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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