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#3520910 - 02/17/12 08:04 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Chivas Offline
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We have enjoyed Coop Wars and other Online Wars thru the original IL-2 series and this feature will add so many immersive scenarios to these Wars. Imagine getting calls over Teamspeak where your ground counterparts are about to be overrun unless you can get your squadron in to take out the enemy tanks etc.


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#3520911 - 02/17/12 08:05 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: ATAG_Bliss]  
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Originally Posted By: ATAG_Bliss
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs


Whats the point? How will they be of any use at all? how will say 10(5 on each side) people on a server covering hundreds of square miles be of any fecking use to anyone? when im up at 10 000 ft? Chivas please explain how they will used?


Using the AAA gun will be just one option. I could see them being used quite a bit on an objective based server. We have some pretty nasty flak around objectives. I couldn't imagine how bad it would be with humans controlling them. As far as the other vehicles the possibilities are endless. You could take over an airfield, deliver supplies, have obviously another tank/armor battle with the other team. Heck, you can resupply airfields with munitions/ammo/fuel etc., in the old IL2 right now. Just imagine doing it in an all human convoy of tanks, trucks, trailers, motorcycles (lol), because if you don't make it, that airfield runs out of fuel for the planes, bombs for the bombers, or repair parts.

I think this is the most phenomenal, most immersive news for any flight sim I've ever seen. This is going to be the very foundation for the greatest combat sim of all time.


Bliss, you do know about the English channel right? smile

By the way i loved this Bliss... thumbsup

"I think this is the most phenomenal, most immersive news for any flight sim I've ever seen. This is going to be the very foundation for the greatest combat sim of all time"

Ouch...got me!

Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 02/17/12 08:07 PM.
#3520917 - 02/17/12 08:10 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Chivas]  
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Originally Posted By: Chivas
We have enjoyed Coop Wars and other Online Wars thru the original IL-2 series and this feature will add so many immersive scenarios to these Wars. Imagine getting calls over Teamspeak where your ground counterparts are about to be overrun unless you can get your squadron in to take out the enemy tanks etc.


Nice idea Chivas, but unless the airbases are less than 15km from the front line i cant see how it is practical. I mean who is going to drive a single tank for over a hour to take a airbase on his own?

#3520919 - 02/17/12 08:16 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Quote:
Bliss, you do know about the English channel right?


No, I never took that into consideration when I was talking about defending your own objectives, manning your own AAA guns, or supplying the front lines with much needed ammo, parts, bombs, or fuel.

Furbs, you do know that there are other maps right? You do realize they are working on other theaters of war as well?

Quote:
Nice idea Chivas, but unless the airbases are less than 15km from the front line i cant see how it is practical. I mean who is going to drive a single tank for over a hour to take a airbase on his own?


Hmm, I know I would. But I'd also have the rest of my team on coms with me. We fly hour long sorties in big heavies bombers to go take out targets all the time. 30 minutes of tank driving is nothing. Funny those that complain about a simulation, don't actually like simulating anything.


Last edited by ATAG_Bliss; 02/17/12 08:16 PM.
#3520923 - 02/17/12 08:18 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Bliss if the Sim that i brought was working and most of the problems fixed by now i would be just as happy about these extras as you.

#3520924 - 02/17/12 08:19 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Originally Posted By: Chivas
We have enjoyed Coop Wars and other Online Wars thru the original IL-2 series and this feature will add so many immersive scenarios to these Wars. Imagine getting calls over Teamspeak where your ground counterparts are about to be overrun unless you can get your squadron in to take out the enemy tanks etc.


Nice idea Chivas, but unless the airbases are less than 15km from the front line i cant see how it is practical. I mean who is going to drive a single tank for over a hour to take a airbase on his own?


Did you see anything in my post about an Airbase, although there has been more than a few airbase attacks in WW2 history, but most of it occured elsewhere. In a Online war server or offline campaign the player would spawn relatively close to any contested area. Major battlefield or just a contested bridge. Just use your imagination. smile I think there was some major and minor actions going on around Normandy, which is on the COD map.

Last edited by Chivas; 02/17/12 08:20 PM.

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#3520927 - 02/17/12 08:22 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Im just grumpy chivas. tough week.

#3520931 - 02/17/12 08:26 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Furbs,

I could say that about many games. Including the one sim I've put the most money into, ROF. When it's capable of doing 1/2 the stuff that IL2COD can, I might play it again. But I've long since stopped posting on their forums asking for fixes. What I don't get is, if you don't like it, then why don't you stop posting about it?

Can I buy your copy off of you? Would that make you stop pounding your chest like a 5 year old every day on these forums? Move on if you don't like it.

#3520961 - 02/17/12 08:53 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Originally Posted By: Bokononist
I don't think that this is intended to be a tank/vehicle sim in the way some are thinking. Whereas something like ARMA tries to cover all bases equally, I think the idea behind this is to provide a greater sense of immersion in a flight sim than would be possible without drivable vehicles and the like. Maybe I'm wrong but thats my take on it.
I just had a thought though, imagine a campaign where you've wrecked too many spits so you get demoted to driving a staff car for the rest of the war, hmmm, I've just decided I don't want that level of immersion....

Now that would be funny, to be forced to take a ground unit because you've crashed/died and use it until you score xx points, personally I think being able to take over vehicles already present would be cool, not drive them all from their starting points but jump into already existing ones programmed into the mission and use until destroyed or deployed otherwise they follow predetermined waypoints.


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#3520965 - 02/17/12 08:56 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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bisher Offline
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lol that would be hilarious to get demoted to ground vehicles only! lol


Ivan Putski, gone but not forgotten
#3521011 - 02/17/12 09:26 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Wow - the disk might make it out of my desk drawer and into my optical drive for an install after all.

#3521052 - 02/17/12 10:23 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Actually, Furbz I am coming to your defense, even as a lover/fanboi of this sim. I generally find your comments pretty balanced if a bit repetitive. There are others far more negative and galling who i cannot abide. I hope all the features eventually get fixed and you can enjoy the game as much as some of us. I chalk today up to, as you said 'a bad day' and hope it gets better for you. Although this is a bit of a backhanded compliment it is a complement. Don't give Bliss your disk smile I'm fairly confident you will enjoy the sim down the road.


Horrido!
#3521070 - 02/17/12 10:33 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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HeinKill Offline
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If you have spent any time on the ground watching the ground war as I have in mission building, just making some vehicles drivable will not go far, unless they have fixed ALL the bugs in vehicle movement. It doesn't help if your vehicle is moving around nicely, but all the others around you are brain dead (If you thought the aircraft AI was was a worry, you should see the guys on the ground!):

- convoys bump into each other and just stop even though there is no obstacle
- convoys meet an obstacle but the pathfinding routine is so bad they spend the next ten minutes going forward and backward in the same spot
- motorcycles with gunners are quite amusing. Shoot off the rider and the bike will keep driving itself. Shoot off the gunner and the gun will keep firing itself. Here the rider has decided to do a face plant into the fuel tank (That's what I call immersion...) but the bike keeps following the one in front of it.


- vehicles leave the road for no reason and drive through forests and then back onto the road
- vehicles do not avoid enemy fire, they have no defensive scatter routines

Given that they aren't fixing the aircraft AI, what do you think the chances are that they will fix the ground AI routines?

Of course, if you want to drive alone in a double decker bus from Dover to Buckingham Palace in a flight sim, then you'll be drooling.


So it was that the war in the air began. Men rode upon the whirlwind that night and slew and fell like archangels. The sky rained heroes upon the astonished earth. Surely the last fights of mankind were the best. What was the heavy pounding of your Homeric swordsmen, what was the creaking charge of chariots, besides this swift rush, this crash, this giddy triumph, this headlong sweep to death?

H. G. Wells, 'The World Set Free,' 1914.
#3521072 - 02/17/12 10:34 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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KraziKanuK Offline
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The old Il-2 had air racing so who wants to do some vehicle racing?

We could have our very own Goodwood Festival (Westhampnett, now Chichester) with Hurricanes and Spitfires doing fly pasts while the vehicles race around the perimeter road. If the Germans decide to crash the party, the AA can open up on them. biggrin


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.
#3521074 - 02/17/12 10:37 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: HerrMurf]  
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Originally Posted By: HerrMurf
Actually, Furbz I am coming to your defense, even as a lover/fanboi of this sim. I generally find your comments pretty balanced if a bit repetitive. There are others far more negative and galling who i cannot abide. I hope all the features eventually get fixed and you can enjoy the game as much as some of us. I chalk today up to, as you said 'a bad day' and hope it gets better for you. Although this is a bit of a backhanded compliment it is a complement. Don't give Bliss your disk smile I'm fairly confident you will enjoy the sim down the road.


Cheers Herrmurf, the reason i keep posting is out of frustration, i want to love this sim just as much as anyone but its hard to.
The "Battle of Britain" is the air battle ive read the most about, about 20 books at the last count and it seems to me they fecked it up.
It could of been so bloody good but its not.
CLOD does not make me think of that battle at all. No sqds, no ground control, no campaigns, FMs way off, AI that is total pants.
Single player is beyond a joke and mutiplayer that is so far pretty well just air quake (ATAG doing the best they can, not their fault)

I dont know...its alomost a year since release and its still broken for most, just check the numbers online.

Just makes me sad and angry at the same time.

I just keep hoping Chivas is proved right some day.


Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 02/17/12 10:40 PM.
#3521076 - 02/17/12 10:39 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: HeinKill]  
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Originally Posted By: HeinKill
Given that they aren't fixing the aircraft AI


They are not improving the AI? I thought they were.

Or is this a case of if they did not mention it in an update it's not being done?


Ivan Putski, gone but not forgotten
#3521084 - 02/17/12 10:45 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Depends Bisher, they could mention it or not it still might not get done.

They hired a new AI guy about 5 months ago and they had a whole "community help with the AI" thread at 1C, so we will see what he has come up with.

#3521096 - 02/17/12 11:00 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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Chivas Offline
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Everything is still a WIP and will be a WIP for the life of the series. I have on idea when everything will be working well enough to suit most people, but as long as the devs are working there is hope. The AI is by far the most difficult aspect to get right, and like Furbs said, they have a person in the development working on it. There is no way it will be perfect anytime soon no matter how many people are working on it, its just too complex.


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#3521115 - 02/17/12 11:22 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Bokononist]  
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From all my reading here, it seems getting the AI "perfect" is not the issue, but rather getting it at least
past the point of seeming brain dead for now.
Am I wrong?

#3521120 - 02/17/12 11:27 PM Re: Friday 17 update from Blacksix. [Re: Gambit21]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gambit21
From all my reading here, it seems getting the AI "perfect" is not the issue, but rather getting it at least
past the point of seeming brain dead for now.
Am I wrong?


Everyone understand how bad the AI is now, I'm just saying no matter how much they fix, it will never be perfect, its just too complicated.


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