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#3519530 - 02/16/12 02:37 AM F4BMS graphics are struggling  
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cjcrank Offline
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I had this posted over in the falcon 4 forum but they thought this would be a good place to ask about whether
a graphics card upgrade would work for my system. I am trying to fly f4bms but the graphics are horrible. I have a Windows xp sp 3, xeon cpu 3.40 ghz, 4 gigs of ram, nvidia quadro fx 3400 dual dvi 256 megs. the monitor is a 21" viewsonic with a resolution of 1024 x 768.
It was mentioned in that forum that i should need a 550, 560 or 570 card. I have no idea if any of those will work but i definitely need something!
One of the posters said I should let you know what kind of motherboard and PSU I have but I have no idea how to get that information. I can't find it anywhere in the device manager or anywhere else. The machine is an IBM Intellistation Z pro if that helps.
Thanks for any help you guys can give.

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#3519545 - 02/16/12 03:05 AM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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It looks like this is what you have:
http://www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/docdisplay?lndocid=MIGR-58662

It has a PCI-E x16 video card slot, which is what all the new cards use (newer PCI-E 2.0 cards are backward compatible).

So... the next thing to consider is the space inside the case and the power supply.
The site I found says the power is 530W which should be ok, but check a video card requirements before making a purchase.
Case size/ space for video card can be tricky. But, a GeForce 560 or 570 should be ok in most regular size cases. They are a double wide card so make sure you have the room (I'm not familiar with the size of your current card).

I recommend a GeForce 560 Ti. They seem to be the best bang for buck value of the current line of Nvidia cards.
You may also need an adapter or two for power if your power supply does not have the correct plugs (almost all new video cards include these)

Good luck. The card I mentioned can be found around a $200 price range. If price is an issue, consider a 560 (non-Ti model) or 550. With your monitor resolution, you may be ok with a card with 512mb ram, but most higher end cards have 1gb.


-Dr Meltdown
#3519549 - 02/16/12 03:14 AM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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now thats what i call a fast response! thanks for the info. yes that is the system i have. what is going to be the difference between the 560ti, 560 non-ti and the 550? i would rather go with the 1gig card if that will help. F4bms is pretty graphic intensive from what i gather so if i can use a 560 non-ti or 550 i will as it is less expensive but i will pony up for the 560ti or 570 if i need it to run the sim with no issues. Also i am planning to use the triple-head-to-go once i get the video to an acceptable (no lag or jitter and crystal clear) level. should this be a factor in choosing a card? thanks for the help....its appreciated.

#3519578 - 02/16/12 04:34 AM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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If you're planning to go to Triple Head to Go (and I assume you're talking Matrox, and not Nvidia or ATI solution which would require even more consideration to video cards), go with the best card you can afford. With TH2G, keep in mind you will be increasing your resolution by a factor of 3, generating greater load on the graphics card.

I have not tried F4 BMS, so I cannot comment on what it needs. But in general, the better the graphics card, the better performance. Maybe see if you can get more advice from BMS players.


-Dr Meltdown
#3519664 - 02/16/12 10:17 AM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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cj, I would suggest to go with the best card you can afford, either nVidia or AMD line. If you already have the Triple Head 2 Go hardware, then you can consider nVidia. If not, buy an AMD card --- AMD does Eyefinity which is basically like TH2Go but does it from the card itself, no need to buy TH2Go. nVidia needs the TH2Go hardware to work, AMD doesn't.

Originally Posted By: cjcrank
what is going to be the difference between the 560ti, 560 non-ti and the 550? i would rather go with the 1gig card if that will help.

Do note that with Windows XP SP3, I am assuming you are working with a 32-bit OS. That extra 1GB of video RAM is not going to be utilized fully, as 32-bit OS can only use 3.5-4GB of RAM. Have you considered upgrading to a 64-bit OS? Like Win7 Home 64-bit?

Let me point you to this graphics card heirarchy chart. It is not 100% accurate and the same cards within the same tier do perform better/worse than the other cards on the same tier, but it is a good rough guide. I used to have a AMD HD 5770 which is 8 levels from the top and it could play BMS with no problem. Might be a bit slower on triple screen though. You will want the best card you can afford, basically because if you upgrade the rest of your rig later on, you can take this card with you. Maybe the 4th or 5th level cards (nVidia GTX 570 or 560 Ti; AMD HD 6970 or 6950), these are good "just behind the curve" cards that is a good balance between performance and cost. Which card in particular is up to you, your needs, and your budget. However, Falcon 4 BMS isn't exactly your cutting-edge game with all the eye candy so if you are on a tighter budget, you can go up to level 8 or thereabouts. I know my HD 5770 is now replaced by a 6770 which sells for about £70-80, so that is quite cheap.

I would also recommend buying a beefier power supply unit, if nothing but to make sure you don't fry anything when you upgrade.

Hope that helps!


- Ice
#3519840 - 02/16/12 05:23 PM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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I recently sold a TH2G for $220. You might want to consider dumping the TH2G and using the money to get a decent AMD card that can run eyefinity (you'll still have your three screens but without the extra box).

I'm running SLI-Surround for my triple setup, however with Nvidia its a 2 card solution vs. 1 card AMD at this point.

Two EVGA GTX560ti 448core classifieds run three screens well at high detail.

#3519908 - 02/16/12 06:03 PM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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need a ActiveDisplayPort -> DVI/HDMI/VGA Adapter to use eyefinity, as one unit needs to be plugged into Active Display Port

Last edited by SkateZilla; 02/16/12 06:13 PM.

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#3519991 - 02/16/12 07:04 PM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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I can't really tell if that CPU is a single core, if it is don't waste any money on it.
I only bring it up because the fx 3400 was released in 04


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#3520008 - 02/16/12 07:19 PM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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quadro fx is a workstation card, not a gaming card,,, yes, it makes a difference, that is your main issue, plus its only got 256mb of ram, BMS significantly upgraded F4's engine to DX9, so They recommend at least a DX9 512mb GFX unit.

CPU is also a Workstation CHIP, with a Workstation Chipset, Single Core w/ HyperThreading.
Xeon 3.4, 3400 MHz, 1024 KiB, 800 MT/s, 17x, 1.287-1.4 V, 103 W, Socket 604, June 28, 2004, RK80546KG0961M, $690



You'd be better off buying a prebuilt $500 "Gaming" PC to play BMS, than upgrading around your current system,
As your current system was setup for Workstation functions and Not gaming.

Last edited by SkateZilla; 02/16/12 07:20 PM.

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#3520148 - 02/16/12 09:29 PM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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Thanks for the input guys. i dont have the th2g yet so im glad u mentioned the amd solution. what is the active display port? if it is part of the card then eyefinity it is. i dont need the cutting edge graphics for bms so do u think the amd solution with my current system would b sufficient (by sufficient i mean not laggy or jittery etc.) or is the single core cpu a deal breaker? final question...what model of amd card would u suggest that supports eyefinity and would work with my system, also whats the approximate price? thanks again for all ur help u guys.

#3520177 - 02/16/12 10:03 PM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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I think a single core CPU for gaming is a deal breaker. I doubt its powerful enough even with a better card to push a single monitor at higher resolutions.


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#3520204 - 02/16/12 10:38 PM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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cj, you can always purchase the card you want and if it doesn't work, you can use the card on any new system you build. I am not very sure about Falcon 4 and single-core, but seriously dude, it might be time to consider an upgrade. I am assuming you are using this system as your home computer? It might be great for everyday tasks but not for gaming.

Like I mentioned earlier, my old card was a HD 5770, and it supports Eyefinity and as it plays DCS A10C fine, I am confident it can more-than-handle Falcon 4 BMS (not 100% sure since I am still starting on BMS). Here is the product page on XFX for my 5770. Note the third picture, you see ports for two DVI cables on the right side (newer version of VGA cable that connects your card to the monitor) and two (?) HDMI ports.

I have yet no experience regarding active display adapters vs passive ones and why you need the active ones so I'll leave that for the others to discuss.

But let me point you to Tom's Hardware Guide Best Graphics Cards For The Money: February 2012 it is a nice place to start your research as it gives a "best card for [insert budget here]".

Perhaps if you post your budget limit and requirements, people can give you more accurate suggestions. Note I said "suggestions," whether you buy it or not, whether it does comform to your needs or not, is always up to you to decide.


- Ice
#3520220 - 02/16/12 10:53 PM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: - Ice]  
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Originally Posted By: - Ice
cj, you can always purchase the card you want and if it doesn't work, you can use the card on any new system you build. I am not very sure about Falcon 4 and single-core, but seriously dude, it might be time to consider an upgrade. I am assuming you are using this system as your home computer? It might be great for everyday tasks but not for gaming.

Like I mentioned earlier, my old card was a HD 5770, and it supports Eyefinity and as it plays DCS A10C fine, I am confident it can more-than-handle Falcon 4 BMS (not 100% sure since I am still starting on BMS). Here is the product page on XFX for my 5770. Note the third picture, you see ports for two DVI cables on the right side (newer version of VGA cable that connects your card to the monitor) and two (?) HDMI ports.

I have yet no experience regarding active display adapters vs passive ones and why you need the active ones so I'll leave that for the others to discuss.

But let me point you to Tom's Hardware Guide Best Graphics Cards For The Money: February 2012 it is a nice place to start your research as it gives a "best card for [insert budget here]".

Perhaps if you post your budget limit and requirements, people can give you more accurate suggestions. Note I said "suggestions," whether you buy it or not, whether it does comform to your needs or not, is always up to you to decide.




The I/O Panel from Left to Right.

DisplayPort, HDMI, and 2x DVI-I Dual Link.

Eyefinity Rules are that One Screen be connected to the DisplayPort to use Eyefinity.
So if you already have 3 screens, just get a ActiveDisplayPort -> DVI/VGA Adapter.


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#3523097 - 02/21/12 02:33 AM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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Ok sounds like upgrading to a better cpu is prolly what needs to happen. can i just upgrade the cpu or do i need a whole new system?

#3523315 - 02/21/12 11:28 AM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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How'd we get from upgrading GPUs to upgrading CPUs? Although a quick glance over the BMS forums and they say BMS is a bit CPU-intensive as well.

If you are going to upgrade your CPU, you will need a new motherboard as well and the type of motherboard will depend on the type of CPU you decide on. At this point, you will also need some RAM since most of the motherboards now are DDR3.


- Ice
#3523318 - 02/21/12 11:43 AM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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FWIW, I'm an AMD fan with an Eyefinity setup (see signature) and some other computers in the house. AMD is the best solution for 3 monitor gaming right now.

All the new AMD HD7xxx series cards physically can do 3 monitors -- as do most of the "last model year" HD6xxx cards. One of the three monitors must have a "Displayport" connection -- the other two can be "DVI" or HDMI. If one does not have monitors with those connections, then adapters can be bought (assuming there is none "in the box"). Usually, it works best if all three monitors are identical size and resolution.

With three monitors, there are 3 times as many pixels to "draw" -- and most folks use 1920x1080 monitors leading to a total resolution of 5760x1080. So, a "lightweight" card that works great with one monitor, would be too slow for most folks when used with three. For example, my brand new HD7750 Home Theater PC (HTPC) card (cheapest HD7xxx made) plays very well at 1920x1080 single monitor (I recommend at least an HD7770 for a gaming rig -- probably fine for F4 and a single monitor). However, HD7750 would not stand a chance with three 1920x1200 monitors (as I use on my main gaming rig). Of course, one could get 3 1680x1050 -- less pixels -- still no chance with an HD7750.

If one wants to try 3 monitors on a budget, HD6870 and up or HD7850 and up (HD7850 to be released shortly) will be OK with three 1920x1080 (based on my experience). With those cards, the half-dozen most difficult graphical games may not be playable at max-everything settings (F4 is not tough graphically); however, one does not need max everything to have a great gaming experience.

If money is no object, the clear solution for three monitors is the HD7970. I'll probably replace my two HD5870 with one of these.

Meanwhile, old games only use a single core of a CPU. Most newer games only use two cores well. I just tried using our new HTPC and HD7750 with all but two cores turned off while playing Skyrim at max-everything with big add on textures -- to make a long story short, worked as well as 4 cores and 6 cores. You might get by with your single core CPU. If not, Skatezilla had the right idea -- time for a new computer -- very cost effective -- and a world of difference. If you try a new graphics card first and find your old CPU is not enough, you can simply buy a new low cost system without a card and transfer the card.

Should you ever get to the point of wanting to upgrade fully, just post here. Lots of folks willing to make good suggestions -- that you'll have to pick from smile


Sapphire Pulse RX7900XTX, 3 monitors = 23P (1080p) + SAMSUNG 32" Odyssey Neo G7 1000R curve (4K/2160p) + 23P (1080p), AMD R9-7950X (ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420), 64GB RAM@6.0GHz, Gigabyte X670E AORUS MASTER MB, (4x M.2 SSD + 2xSSD + 2xHD) = ~52TB storage, EVGA 1600W PSU, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower, ASUS RT-AX89X 6000Mbps WiFi router, VKB Gladiator WW2 Stick, Pedals, G.Skill RGB KB, AORUS Thunder M7 Mouse, W11 Pro
#3523324 - 02/21/12 12:28 PM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: Allen]  
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Originally Posted By: Allen
Should you ever get to the point of wanting to upgrade fully, just post here. Lots of folks willing to make good suggestions -- that you'll have to pick from smile


I could never understand how so many people (ladies mostly) can spend so much time "just shopping" for new clothes, shoes, bags, etc. and going from store to store and moaning about all the possible choices. Then I remember how I was when researching and picking my new system specs. Same "concept," different applications. biggrin Now I understand when they say "it's fun!"


- Ice
#3523542 - 02/21/12 06:29 PM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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I went online last night and looked into what a 'gaming' setup is.....holy cow! i thought i had a good computer with 4 gigs of ram! boy do i feel like an idiot...anyway. Ok so moving forward, BMS and DCS A10c is in all likelihood the only graphics intensive sims that will ever be played on this system. (i am not a gamer but a serious sim enthusiast) All of the 'gamer' computers i looked at were like the alienware etc and started at about $1500. where are the 'inexpensive' ones you guys are talking about? after all of your guys input i think what i am going to do is upgrade to a a system that will play BMS and DCS A10 with the amd eyefinity and have absolutely no hindrance in performance AND be able to be upgraded at such a time that improvements are released to either of those sims. based on the system recommendations for both sims is there a pre-built system out there that will meet my criteria or do you think it would be better to build from scratch using the case and etc i already have? Thanks guys

#3523598 - 02/21/12 07:50 PM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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Systems run a gamut of prices. To make good suggestions regarding a "balanced" approach, we need to know what you are willing to spend. You seem to be willing to "spend what it takes" within reason.

A first class system with an HD7970 GPU for Eyefinity will probably run over $1100 -- maybe over $1500-- that's for the computer (no monitors). Monitors run from three for $450 to three for $1500+ in the size and resolution most folks are happy with. For many sim players, the cheaper monitors will do (whew smile ).

One can save money various ways. Shop sales and build it yourself to save significant cash and get exactly what you want (with no warranty -- except for RMA replacement of bad individual components) -- many here do that. Others pick components and have the computer built to their specs -- costs more and includes warranty. Etcetera.

The real trick is to know what's important and what's not to FPS and Eyefinity. One does NOT need the best of everything. Rather, one needs components known to do the job -- usually, there are multiple good choices -- get the sale-priced one -- that's where SimHQ folks come into the picture.

Anyhow, what's the budget smile


Sapphire Pulse RX7900XTX, 3 monitors = 23P (1080p) + SAMSUNG 32" Odyssey Neo G7 1000R curve (4K/2160p) + 23P (1080p), AMD R9-7950X (ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420), 64GB RAM@6.0GHz, Gigabyte X670E AORUS MASTER MB, (4x M.2 SSD + 2xSSD + 2xHD) = ~52TB storage, EVGA 1600W PSU, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower, ASUS RT-AX89X 6000Mbps WiFi router, VKB Gladiator WW2 Stick, Pedals, G.Skill RGB KB, AORUS Thunder M7 Mouse, W11 Pro
#3523623 - 02/21/12 08:33 PM Re: F4BMS graphics are struggling [Re: cjcrank]  
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Of course, pre-built gaming rigs will cost, especially the "brand name" ones. So why spend so much when you can build one for yourself?

To help you along this path, we would need to know your current system (I see it's linked above, but have you made any changes? Like what monitor size are you working with now?), and how much you plan to spend. We know that you want to play DCS A10C and Falcon 4 BMS, though I do believe DCS is the more graphics-intensive game and F4BMS is an older game so while it may not tax the GPU so much, it may give the CPU a sweat.

Off the bat, I'd say you might want a 22-24 inch monitor to start with. I know you said you wanted triple-screen gaming, but look at what monitors cost to start with and see if you have any money left over after spec-ing out your system. A 500GB hard drive should do, or a 1TB drive for more storage. Or you could keep your current drive. Got more money? Look into 64GB or 128GB SSDs. DDR3 RAM is dirt cheap these days so 8GB of dual-channel 1600MHz should be easy. A PSU of at least 700W will give you good overhead, though you can probably get by with a lower-power PSU, but I prefer that extra.

Now for the most important and most expensive bits -- your CPU, GPU, and motherboard selection. Allen is a big fan of AMD CPUs, and they are good value-for-money. Or you can get the second generation i5 CPUs if you want to go nVidia. Basically, a good quad-core CPU is what you are looking for. Again, your CPU choice will then dictate your motherboard selection; once you've picked your CPU, I'm sure a lot of people can recommend a good board for it. The GPU we've already discussed.

Good luck!


- Ice
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