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#3517085 - 02/12/12 10:45 AM Re: Arma 3: My thoughts [Re: The Blackbird]
MaceUK33 Online   grunt
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No, didn't realise I could change the speech via that! Very rarely use the combat commands.
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#3517136 - 02/12/12 12:08 PM Re: Arma 3: My thoughts [Re: The Blackbird]
Taosenai Online   biggrin
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ArmA apologist here.

ArmA 2 CO is currently an incredibly solid game, once you learn the subtler bits of it. Some things that seem game-y when you experience them are more realistic and authentic than you might think.

Everyone hates on ArmA's UI, but no commo-rose type system can approach the fine control offered by the tiered menu system. Contact, 2,3 go prone and deliver suppressing fire on that target in the bushes, 4 crouch and watch northwest, 5,6,7,8 go combat movement and bound to that rock then engage from cover. I challenge you to find any FPS with such fine control for a leader. Voice control using something like Voice Activated Commands (VAC) makes it even sweeter. I don't want to be limited to ALL, ATTACK MY TARGET. BOAT SPOTTED. BOAT SPOTTED.

I find the addition of in-mission gear switching kind of sketchy, since if you have a 10x scoped rifle, you probably shouldn't be kicking down doors in the same ten minutes, and you'd probably cry yourself to sleep before you removed that scope and possibly wrecked your zero. Of course the limits of the game environment often make that needed, so it's a good thing all around, especially for mod makers.

The addition of a real vehicle/world physics engine and a real inverse-kinematics (ragdoll) system are the largest things IMO. This will make so much more possible -- real rope insertions, real cargo lift helicopters, proper vehicle crash and destruction simulations. IK will also make modding a million times more enjoyable, as the current 'weighting' system is frustratingly out of date and awkward to work with, especially when animating new models.

Anti-material rifles (and all weapons actually) already feature penetration and deflection, which is controlled by the material of the object, the caliber of the bullet, and the velocity. Shoot tracers from the M2 into a concrete wall and watch for the deflected shots. Alternately, line up several concrete walls in the editor and shoot through them, then look for the bullet holes through each. I was just testing this for a silly extreme penetration sniper rifle mod I was working on, shooting guys behind an IFV through the hull of the vehicle. Some sort of destruction ala BF3 but less ridiculous would be nice, but that's not in the pipeline I don't think. The engine already includes anti-material components, but sometimes it doesn't seem to be right. For example, you can definitely disable the turrets on IFVs with the .50, but for some reason I can never shoot out the engine block of the UAZ. And from modding, I know that the system for that exists inside the game already, and is implemented spottily for some vehicles. Not sure if it's just buggy or what.

ArmA already has a pretty impressive stealth simulation in my opinion. It doesn't play like Splinter Cell, because that doesn't make sense and isn't realistic anyway -- you can't just stand behind a dude for two minutes and not expect him to 'feel' you. Try it in real life. With a melee mod, I have successfully crept up behind two guards in ArmA and taken them out. The first began to turn just as I got to him, but the rifle butt to the face handled that. The crack alerted the second, but I was able to draw my pistol and kill him just as he got his rifle up and a burst off (a miss). The existing stealth is solid if you play in a cautious, tedious, realistic way. It is punishingly non-game-y.

ArmA's mission editor is brilliant and one of the most accessible ones I've ever used. Place groups of guys, a vehicle here or there, support trucks and a medical helicopter, give them waypoints, set players and playable, and boom, you have an instant mission to play by yourself on any terrain. The scripting language is forgiving and easy to learn. ArmA 3 will use Java, so that'll be even more powerful (and more familiar to some). A sophisticated sim like this is never going to be fully point-and-click for complex editing IMO.

Since the 1.6 patch the ArmA AI are highly improved. They will rarely step out into the open except when they are not aware (i.e. the mission maker has poorly configured them). Their combat movement, bounding, peeking around corners, use of suppression/grenades, etc. is all quite strong, and their rifle accuracy is pretty human -- if you can shoot them as a player, they can shoot you just as fast at that range. It's even better with some of the small tweaks done by scripts/mods like UPSMON, ACEm and ASR AI. Ask the SimHQ team, who gets flanked and mowed down by UPSMON AI week after week! I expect the ArmA 3 AI to be even more polished with the new refined movement animations. Certainly no game has comparable infantry AI on the sheer variety of terrain (from open fields to MOUT) that ArmA's AI can handle.

I am also looking forward to Render-to-Texture (confirmed in Take On Helicopters) and also underground areas (I'm hoping, since it's in VBS, and some ArmA 3 shots show hill-side entries to bases). If along with render-to-texture (MFDs), clickable cockpits are included in ArmA 3 like in Take On Helis, then you can expect some serious mid-fidelity aircraft simulations to come out of the modding community.

Bugs and all, I expect this to be brilliant.
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#3517198 - 02/12/12 01:32 PM Re: Arma 3: My thoughts [Re: Taosenai]
Shadow629 Offline
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Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 109
Thanks Tao, very well expressed. I say let the whiners and bashers play BF. I will enjoy ARMA2 CO until ARMA3 is released and I will even upgrade to a 64bit OS if I have too. But I won't be happy about giving up XP 32bit. grunt
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#3517581 - 02/13/12 05:32 AM Re: Arma 3: My thoughts [Re: The Blackbird]
TankerWade Offline
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Registered: 06/14/11
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Loc: Portsmouth, NH
Everyone who is interested in Arma 3 should also check out the demo for Take On Helicopters, even if you are not into the helo aspect of the game. ToH shows many of the little improvements that are coming later this year. Tao has already mentioned a few but I will mention two more - the HUD is completely customizable without resorting to mods. It has a HUD editor that shows the different UI elements as opaque boxes that you can resize and move where ever you like. They have also grouped the keybinds into infantry, helo, air and misc groups so you don't have to scroll through one long list to find the seagull controls. The whole menu system itself can be reskinned in different colors. Small things but it is an overall much nicer presentation.

I am very much looking forward to it.
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#3517670 - 02/13/12 07:28 AM Re: Arma 3: My thoughts [Re: The Blackbird]
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
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The rather old now WWII tacsim H&D2 had quiet comms. You could choose whether to say it or whisper it, and you even made hand gestures for totally silent comms.
While the maps were smaller than OFP/Arma, H&D was a great WWII experience. I wish they'd made an H&D3.



The Jedi Master
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#3518071 - 02/13/12 04:40 PM Re: Arma 3: My thoughts [Re: Jedi Master]
NoUseForAName Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
The rather old now WWII tacsim H&D2 had quiet comms. You could choose whether to say it or whisper it, and you even made hand gestures for totally silent comms.
While the maps were smaller than OFP/Arma, H&D was a great WWII experience. I wish they'd made an H&D3.



The Jedi Master

Yep, one of my favorite tactical FPS's. The controls and in-game interface/gui was excellent IMO and I wish Arma would learn a thing or two from it (especially with the GUI).

H&D3 (if a true successor) would be a sure buy from me
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#3518343 - 02/14/12 05:24 AM Re: Arma 3: My thoughts [Re: The Blackbird]
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
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IIRC the company was bought out, became 2K Prague, and after Mafia II were shut down.



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#3520146 - 02/16/12 01:24 PM Re: Arma 3: My thoughts [Re: PFunk]
Vertigo1 Online   content
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Originally Posted By: PFunk
Originally Posted By: MaceUK33
I wish they would make voices quieter when in a stealth situation as creeping around but having an AI team memeber talking loadly on comms ruins the immersion. Not one game does this.


Absolutely. The only game that ever did stealth comms right was Splinter Cell and to be honest, it really didn't do it right, either.


I remember playing Swat 3 (I believe) and you would start in a stealth mode but would go to a dynamic mode upon command or upon contact with the criminal.
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#3520149 - 02/16/12 01:30 PM Re: Arma 3: My thoughts [Re: Taosenai]
Vertigo1 Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Taosenai
I am also looking forward to Render-to-Texture (confirmed in Take On Helicopters) and also underground areas (I'm hoping, since it's in VBS, and some ArmA 3 shots show hill-side entries to bases).


This is the first I've heard of this. Will we finally be getting proper foxholes and bunkers?

BTW, I'm looking forward to flying the comanche.
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"Man to man, the urban is no match for the rural mind." - Wallace Nutting

“Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school.” - Albert Einstein




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#3520409 - 02/16/12 07:54 PM Re: Arma 3: My thoughts [Re: Vertigo1]
Taosenai Online   biggrin
ArmA Mission Maker/Tactical Thursday
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Registered: 03/29/11
Posts: 616
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This is the shot I am talking about. Might be deceiving though.
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"It is necessary to develop a strategy that utilizes all the physical conditions and elements that are directly at hand. The best strategy relies upon an unlimited set of responses."
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