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#3513729 - 02/07/12 03:27 PM
Touchscreen LCDs
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Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 7543
Loc: Philippines / North East UK
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I was wondering if anyone has any extensive knowledge of touchscreen technology. For example, I know LCDs are really fragile screen-wise, so how does a touch-screen version deal with this? Or is a touchscreen LCD like an iPad with the LCD under a plate of glass (or whatever that material is nowadays)? I've also been looking at eBay and found a few things... This one and this one seem to be commercial versions of LCDs, the second one being listed as with a 1280x1024 res and 60Hz according to this specs page. With the second one being £32, I am itching to give it a try for DCS A10, especially since I'm only looking to put the CDU and UFC on it and not the entire front/left/right panels of the aircraft. However, I don't want to buy something and find out it doesn't work with your everyday home PC. I also found this one which appears to be a screen you place on top of an ordinary LCD monitor, kinda like the anti-glare and anti-radiation screens we used for CRT monitors. Does anyone have any experience with either of the two types of items?
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- Ice
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#3513771 - 02/07/12 04:23 PM
Re: Touchscreen LCDs
[Re: - Ice]
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Registered: 10/13/99
Posts: 5083
Loc: Ohio USA
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Don't know about PC touch screens. Do know that today's better tablets and phones use a "durable" screen material to ward off damage.
Do know that Windows 8 will be optimized for touch screens (whatever that means). Windows 8 is rumored to be available as a free download trial version in a month or two. I got the free Windows 7 download prior to its release -- worked fine -- plan to get Windows 8 free download. When Windows 8 final version hits the stores, one should have a couple months or more to buy that version before the free version becomes inactive (at least that's how it worked the last time).
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#3513786 - 02/07/12 04:48 PM
Re: Touchscreen LCDs
[Re: - Ice]
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Hotshot
Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 7543
Loc: Philippines / North East UK
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Yeah, I've seen enough iPhones and other tablets plus my iPad so I know it is more durable than your average LCD screen. However, I've not been able to play with an LCD touchscreen yet that's why I'm asking.
I don't plan to use it on Win8, just for games especially DCS A10C.
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- Ice
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#3514174 - 02/08/12 09:41 AM
Re: Touchscreen LCDs
[Re: - Ice]
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Member
Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 627
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They are durable, by design. I've had a resistive overlay installed on an LCD display, but now use 3 of the Acer T230H (optical tracking) touchscreens. There are a number of different touch tracking technologies that have been used. I'm probably not as heavy on screen touching as some users are (Not doing Helios or something similar, yet), but FWIW, I have never had a durability issue. I don't recall reading of other people having them either. If/when issues arise, it more typically revolves around drivers.
If you are looking to get into touch screen usage, things you may wish to consider are:
What are you priorities? (Cost, aesthetics, flexibility, etc.) What Operating System(s) will you use? How many touch screens? Single touch or multi-touch? USB or RS-232 (serial port) for the touch screen input to the computer?
Some general observations...
Overlays could provide some potential savings if you are a do-it-yourself kind of person. You can probably find something other than ELO that could be less expensive. The downsides are that an overlay will result in a display image that is not as good as the original display was sans overlay. Most likely, you also will not have multi-touch as an option. They can also prove to be quite challenging to get installed under the display's bezel. One potential benefit though... If you want to use a touch screen within an Eyefinity group, overlays typically use drivers/software from the overlay manufacturer (vs. being handled by the Windows OS/drivers). As such, you may be able to customize the touch screen's usage to work properly inside of an Eyefinity group... whereas the Windows OS/driver handled models do not work properly within an Eyefinity group (and no solution is apparently in sight).
Late model touchscreen LCDs typically support multi-touch with Win 7 or later. I'd say that is more important to graphical artists than to gamers. If you're using it with Touch Buddy, Helios, DCWS Sims, etc., single touch is just fine for switch flipping and button pushing.
As mentioned earlier, Eyefinity and touchscreens presents a challenge. IF you have a dream of running the DCS:BS or DCS:A-10C cockpit, for instance, across a 3 screen eyefinity group of 3 touchscreens and using the built-in click-ability of the cockpit controls (instead of using Helios or something similar), THEN you are going to need to choose your touch screen solutions very carefully. You won't be able to do that with three Acer T230H displays, for instance... the touch screen output of a single screen will affect all three displays, not just itself. There are other ways to get there, fortunately.
There are a number of different technologies that manufacturers choose from to obtain the touchscreen function, including Resistive, Capacitive, Sonic, or Optical. The overlay I had used before was resistive. The Acer T230H displays use optical tracking.
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To the Spirit that moves in Man, On Whom all worlds depend, Be Glory since our world began And service to the end! -- Rudyard Kipling
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#3514225 - 02/08/12 10:50 AM
Re: Touchscreen LCDs
[Re: - Ice]
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Member
Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 758
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I'm particularly interested in the touch-screen overlays one can buy on eBay(the second option that -Ice refers to).
I'm also wondering if anyone knows if they can be used without a monitor, using TouchBuddy, for example.
It seems to me that if one prints off a template of controls on a sheet of paper laid underneath the overlay, one should be able to use the overlay as an MFP without the expense of a monitor. One should, in fact, be able to create a number of different, swappable, layouts for different sims.
Basically, what I'm suggesting is creating a frame to hold the touch-screen overlay with a slot in which to hold a sheet of layouts with a light source behind it to illuminate the paper (mimicking a monitor). While this would require some work and a bit of expense, it should result substantial savings.
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#3514506 - 02/08/12 04:23 PM
Re: Touchscreen LCDs
[Re: - Ice]
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Hotshot
Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 7543
Loc: Philippines / North East UK
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Cy, I'm sorry but you lost me a bit there. Are you saying there is a special screen/glass/protector on top of the LCD monitor, like the case of iPads/iPhones/tablets?
As for use, I think cost is more of a factor and all the bells and whistles are just extras. I was just hoping for something for DCS A10 for flicking switches and pushing buttons. And not planning to have 3 touch screens in Eyefinity, it's had enough just buying ONE!
Cold Gambler, I had the exact same idea when I saw that overlay.... nothing says overlay it against an LCD... though I'm not sure how it works. That bit of cable there on the pic, the connector end bit doesn't look familiar. For £50 though, I'd love to be able to have a UFC and MFD!!
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- Ice
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#3514578 - 02/08/12 05:44 PM
Re: Touchscreen LCDs
[Re: - Ice]
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Skate Zilla HD Studios
Veteran
Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 12321
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
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i can get 24 inch touch overlays off ebay for about $80/each...
you mount it to the screen, connect the header to the wires, connect the wire harness to the USB daughterboard, connect the USB 2.0 to the db, then connect the USB 2.0 to the PC.
i had a 19 inch 16:10 screen a. i took the front bezel off, b. made a small hole in the rear bezel (make a vent bigger right next to the connection usually is the easiest way) c. mounted the touch array to the front of the screen, d. connect the 4 pin wire to the touch array e. put other end of the wire out the back of the frame/bezel. f. mount the screen back into it's frame g. re-assemble front bezel/unit casing h. hook the daughter board to the 4 pin wire i. hook mini-usb to the daughter board, J. hook usb 2.0 to the pc, k. let drivers load, calibrate.
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#3514579 - 02/08/12 05:47 PM
Re: Touchscreen LCDs
[Re: - Ice]
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Skate Zilla HD Studios
Veteran
Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 12321
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
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the largest i've seen on ebay is 19 inches 16:9 or 16:10 for less than $100.
but there are 21.5" (16:9) and 22" (16:9). for $100+ which would be cheaper than dropping another few hundred.
Edited by SkateZilla (02/08/12 05:49 PM)
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Skate Zilla William B.
HAF922, 700W OCZ, ASRock Fata1ity 990FX Pro, Corsair H100,AMD FX8350 @ 5.15GHz, 16GB G.SKILL Sniper@DDR2133, Sapphire DualX HD7950-OC@1.1 GHz Core/6GHz Mem, Creative XFi Fata1ity Platinum Champ., ASUS VS248HP 24" LEDx3, 5760x1080(6048x), Turtle Beach Earforce, RCA 5.1 Surround CH Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, Pro Pedals, Saitek EclipseII IntensityPro 10-Bit, Kinect For Windows, TrackIR 4 Pro WD 1.5TB Black SATA3, SG 1TB SATA2, 2x SG 500GB SATA2, 1x SG Ext. 1TB USB3
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#3515184 - 02/09/12 02:31 PM
Re: Touchscreen LCDs
[Re: - Ice]
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Hotshot
Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 7543
Loc: Philippines / North East UK
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Skate, do you actually have one? Pics? What is this "daughter board"? Does it always come with the hardware or do I have to buy it separate?
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- Ice
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#3515198 - 02/09/12 02:58 PM
Re: Touchscreen LCDs
[Re: - Ice]
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Member
Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 627
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Cy, I'm sorry but you lost me a bit there. Are you saying there is a special screen/glass/protector on top of the LCD monitor, like the case of iPads/iPhones/tablets?
As for use, I think cost is more of a factor and all the bells and whistles are just extras. I was just hoping for something for DCS A10 for flicking switches and pushing buttons. And not planning to have 3 touch screens in Eyefinity, it's had enough just buying ONE!
Cold Gambler, I had the exact same idea when I saw that overlay.... nothing says overlay it against an LCD... though I'm not sure how it works. That bit of cable there on the pic, the connector end bit doesn't look familiar. For £50 though, I'd love to be able to have a UFC and MFD!! Ice, I couldn't really say if there is a *special* screen/glass/protector, per se. I have not disassembled my Acer T230H's, and have no reason to. The screen is solid to the touch. The position sensing is actually optical (sensors hidden inside the bezels). As for my earlier overlay, I didn't actually install it, as I bought the monitor on ebay with the 3rd party overlay already installed. It was solid to the touch, but I couldn't say if it was just due to the overlay. I guess my main point to take away would be that for late model touch screen displays, they have to be made durable, due to the intended use. Obviously you wouldn't want to use a ball peen hammer as a stylus with it, but for normal use one should hold up fine.
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To the Spirit that moves in Man, On Whom all worlds depend, Be Glory since our world began And service to the end! -- Rudyard Kipling
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