Enjoy.

http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/default.aspx

Jason

Well i will certainly be helping and pre ordering the Channel map. and later on next month hopefully the other three planes.
It's going to be an interesting year for ROF again.

Open'ed the page and nearly shat myself from the pictures....

Excellent news! Rather ambitious plans... which are worthy of support.
Channel map pre-ordered.

Awesome stuff.
Will pre order the DH4, W12 & the channel map. Perhaps one of my favourites the W29 http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/product?productid=3000 could follow.
Also looking forward to see how the new ocean looks.

Daft question maybe but does the 20% discount stiill apply if you buy the 3 new planes at once?

I think it does because I calculated everything costing 50.96 but the planes cost 24.78 and the map cost 19.99 or 44.77 total. So I believe the planes were discounted at 20% when I bought them.

I still say you should implement some sort of monthly subscription for those who want to help development. Maybe give them a checkers scarf or streamer to show that they are currently subscribing to a monthly subscription. Because you are giving them a streamer for say 15 bucks a month the legal fields would be covered since they are actually paying for something and not just donating.

Thanks for that!

Picked up everything available-can't WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!

I will say that I am not sure selling the terrain is a good idea. I hope maybe 4-6 months after it is released you make it free for the demo. Otherwise it is going to ruin the demo for mp with everyone playing on the new terrain and all of the interested new players unable to find a server they can play on with a good population.

It would also be nice if the server list showed available planes before you loaded in so that demo players know ahead of time if they can play on that server.

I think I just had a simgasim in my pants!!!

Exactly

Will the channel map work with the DCS P51?

Seriously though - congrats (an early one) plus a pre-order from me. Keep up the good work.

Any other of your acquaintances you also advice to give away their work for free?

I know, I know, the 777 Studios team getting food on their table is also of pretty academic interest to me. Still I don't begrudge them the occasional borsht!

Oh, and..

OMG!!!

- Fantastic news!!!

Wow. Thanks.

Wow, great stuff! Love the idea of seaplanes - what an unexpected surprise!

Did not necessarily notice mention of campaign improvements, but I hope/assume that falls under the "other improvements" category. Seaplanes definately look intersting.

My one question: Will we get the chance to pre-order some 1915-1916 slow two-seaters any time soon (eg. AGO C.I, F.E.2, Morane L)? The D.H.4 is a bit of a hot-rod (despite its flaws) and hard to catch with the early scouts.

Let me give you more money

This sounds great!

Will get to fly over sunny Clacton-on-Sea lol

The whole point of their current free to play model is based on the sales of airplanes. The odds that a new player will buy the the float planes for the current terrain (maybe the small lake terrain?) is very unlikely. On top of that new players will feel discouraged that all the players are playing on a map that they can not play on. Then when they do buy the map they will find that they wont have the planes for it.

I have already heard from several people that they think this will destroy the current demo since people will log in to no one online since everyone will be on a map that is not standard.

I have no problem paying for things but our online community is not large enough that we can afford to segment it further. There might be 100 people online at any given night. When the new map comes out easily 80-90% of those players will be on that new map.

What incentive is there for a player who downloads the demo to buy the new float planes and map if they have not gotten to play against humans in a large area. I have managed to sell the game to 25-30 people with several of them buying everything they can buy but that is only after playing online with them for a week or two so that they see how good the game actually is.

With this new map that will be removed.

I'd personally doubt people are going to spend all their time on the English Channel map. Most of WWI air war took place on the maps we have now (or somewhere similar), the English channel was a sideshow. For historic and aesthetic purposes, I'd imagine most people continue to use the default maps for dogfight servers, esepcially after the newness of the Channel map wears off.

No, I think then the 'free' version will serve as a true demo that people will have to buy the extra stuff if they want it. I will be mightily pissed if I pay for maps and then they are given away free later on because people are too tight to buy the game.

Great stuff Jason and team! All you have will be mine!!! mwwwwuuuuaaaaaaahhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa

Thanks.

Pre-ordered. Right now only DCS and RoF companies left for us simmers....

Hopefully Italy/Austria will be next. I'd like to see some mountains!

Nice additions.


Wheels

I did also the Pay-pal pre-ordering, support seems to be needed for 777 and I like this game, so why not. Only I think that a decent campaign mode like in RB3d/OFF3, release of the SDkit and early 2-seaters should also not be forgotten.

I think Master has a point here and I will explain why.

Currently, I have played approximately 10 minutes of RoF - which I have to say I enjoyed. That was about a year ago - work and family pressures meant I had little time to invest the time needed to justify buying it.

Now I am looking at the game again and am really encouraged by there being a free demo - I can invest the time now and see if I really get on with the sim. Congrats to the team for providing that. There have been sims in the past that have really excited me but on spending a bit of time with them, they falled short. I want to be sure the time I have, is going to be spent on the right sim.

When it is said people are too tight to buy the content, I have to disagree with this blanket statement. I know myself, and I know that once I get into a sim, I want to get everything associated with it ( I am sure some of you can relate to that)

Now to the crux of the matter; if I play the free demo and I struggle to find servers which I can play on, then how will I be able to make that decision. For me, I don't see it as such a problem as I am in the UK but there are players who live in more remote parts who this will be a far bigger problem for.

Just an opinion from another angle

What a surprise! Channel map is great news, as are floatplanes and ships/subs.
EDIT: have pre-ordered all 3 new aircraft, AND as currently appears you do get the 20% discount on top, at least for now.

BUT hope they include London as a target for Gothas though! From the map shown it does not look so, so...?
There is no sense in truncating the map just to cut off where London should go, after all, we don't have Paris either...(yet). Technology will change, make the map to include the terrain that will one day be London in RoF, either by the hand of 777 or third party.

Good heavens, how could any WW1 flying fan resist! Pre-ordered everything.

No, it makes perfect sense not including the great cities, presumably that ammount of buildings would require too much computing/rendering power to run smoothly. Also the developing effort of replicating early 20th century London/Paris would be enormous.

Imo this is one mistake Il-2 Cliffs of Dover made, though it was a lot more important for them to have some version of London in the sim so it's easy to understand why they felt like they had to do it.

Great news, worthy of support!....Got the lot.

You can have a lot of realistic Gotha missions with the towns already on the map.

I am so happy that the Gothas will get their proper airfields in Belgium!

Maybe cpu's currently, but why should this restrict future development? And with respect to resources, why not 3rd party volunteers? He!!, I'll volunteer some time to place buildings etc as part of a project team...

We don't have Paris right now as is, and that's OK, why not include the area with London for the future is all I'm saying, NOT let's have our cake and eat it too...

Not really. Gothas fleets flew in formations of 20 or more (most bombing London, which they arent putting on the map??). The game has a formation limit of 5 for some reason. (dumb)

More 2 seaters being made, and the turret gun controls are still jacked up. (since day one of release)

They cant correctly model wind effect on a plane, (in a FLIGHT sim), but they are making realistic water for boats??

Mission editor is still too archaic for the average user to have any fun with, never changing I guess.

I'm not buying any of this. Think I'm done with ROF.

OK, good bye...

EDIT: actually I do regret making a cavalier comment about the announced departure of a community member, but I suppose I don't tolerate much whinging in the absence of constructive input. It is unfortunate that you have such a perfection complex Richardg, because it just isn't going to happen as quickly as you would like, but should you gain some capacity for patience, please enjoy your purchase in the future. And sincerely, please come back to post.

Yeah, bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Not going to waste my time or yours talking about how the Gotha raids actually worked.

Great news

All this looks great, and I'll keep buying stuff (like the new map) but I'd be really happy if we could get an in-game and easy to use Mission Editor like in IL2. Flat out, I don't like the way the ROF Mission Editor works or that I can't use it in-game and "on the fly" like in IL2.

ROF is fantastic and I've bought enough extra stuff to qualify as a part of a supportive community, but I have to say that the Mission Editor is simply not good enough. It should be easy to use, fun to use, and reasonably fast to use. It is none of those things.

To end on a positive note: ROF is a fantastic sim and I will continue to support it with both praise and cash.

I don't get it. Paris and London are great with modded Il-2, and don't cause any noticeable problems.

way to feed my addiction to this sim!

Bought everything. Great news Jason, let's see what the team can do.

Different game engine...my guess is that ROF's level of detail for aircraft sacrifice resources that otherwise would be available to other things such as ground objects. There's only so much "horsepower" to go around IMO.

Nitpicking time!

- Ieper is not marked on the map; should be, because the map does seem to include the area. Please change this before people get into a frenzy over "why isn't bloody Wipers on the map?"
- "Zeerbrugge" must be "Zeebrugge"



Looking forward to buy more stuff in 2012!

Maybe if we get enough boats we can redo the Zeebruggee raid, and give 'er some air support.

How cool would that be!

Exactly what I was thinking... I'd rather have a higher quality coastline (or submarines that can dive) or a Nieuport with two Lewis guns - rather than a lot of time be put into modeling a city I don't really want to fly over... Paris, I might see - but for London, there are other nearby targets to intercept Gothas over.

Pre-ordered everything, channel map and floatplanes sounds like great fun to me.

I'd rather 777 didn't use their scant resources modelling London or Paris.

If a 3rd party group wanted to take the task on then its all good of course.

I agree 100%, 777 should concentrate resources elsewhere other than Paris/London, BUT if ANYONE is ever going to be able to make London, the map has to include the terrain for it!

That's all I'm trying to say, include the terrain where London SHOULD go, just like the Paris we don't have. Someday we will have it, but the map must cover the area first, or it ain't going to ever happen...

I've read through the blog post at the RoF forum several times. Tell me, am I reading between the lines or is this new map going to be single-player only? The article keeps referring to how important the map and the Belgian air forces will be to 'career mode'. I hope I'm simply misunderstanding what's being said.

Thanks Luke. That answers my question.

To be honest I'm a little disappointed. I was hoping for further enhancements to AI and the dynamic campaign. Those are the features which in my opinion already make ROF a very good simulator but if improved further could make it one for the gaming history books. I understand that 777 needs to make money but why not do it with the dynamic campaign. It is still considered a beta...so leave what there is for free for everyone to try out (or make some sort of trail version where you can only fly a limited number of sorties with each pilot) and improve on that...make a final version and sell that. I would buy that no matter the price.

Adding more planes and maps doesn't really appeal as much to me. The SP is good...but it is not really there yet. The dynamic campaign is well designed in terms of immersion (just missing a better debriefing) but the automatically generated missions need to become better (which would also be facilitated by improvements to the AI...attacking a plane with a rear gunner shouldn't be nothing but suicide and the AI needs to concentrate more on the actual goal of the mission). A good static campaign also would be appreciated...I bought the St. Mihiel but I don't like it very much. The missions I tried are designed very well and the diary thing is a good idea (which should be improved further) but I miss what is the strongest point of the dynamic campaign: keeping track of your pilot and squadron. A combination of both would be the best...the missions from the St. Mihiel campaign combined with the immersive dynamic campaign.

Of course everything is just IMHO but that's the way I feel.

Alexander

@Alexander: Please, I don't mean to sound polemic, but I read nowhere that they are stopping the rest of the development to produce this new map + Aircrafts. On the contrary, I believe somewhere is written that they (777) are still aiming to improve Flight Models and the Sim-Core.

It's just that on top of that they're also releasing stuff for us to buy. On a former post was in fact written they hired new poeple for new models/maps, sorry content development.



I spent almost €30 last month so wifey wouldn't let me pre-order anything. Still I'm deeply in love with the idea of the channel map.
I'll buy it and the streamers/guns ASAP.

Cheers!

777 need to finish what's still unfinished and plug the glaring gap in the existing planeset before they start pushing stuff like this. I'll not part with another penny unless it's for early-war planes like the Fe2.

looking at it nowadays, it was a bad decission to make the N.11/DH2/E.III IMO. Because of the lack of "target"-planes for them, read twoseaters of 1916.

777 had two choices for 2012:
1) make such 1916 twoseaters
2) concentrate on the already much better equipted 1917/18 scenario.

they decided to go 2), even more with adding a new map with some new possibilites with the airwarfare over the sea. I am ok with that, they couldnt do both i guess.

And i belive they will still improve their already existing stuff too.

to ad, i would have also been ok if 777 would have decided to go 1) lets wait what 2013 will bring

Maybe the DH2, E.III, and N11 should have never been created. Now there's this expectation that RoF will cover 1916 as thoroughly as it does 1917-1918. I enjoy the early war birds, but it isn't realistic to think that there's a financial future in it for RoF.

Even the 1917-1918 planeset has some pretty big holes. My $.02.

I think that the new map and new planes can better attract NEW players, thus enlarging the players base. THEN, the time periods can be better filled with the important missing airplanes, which will be bought by the existing players. Maybe this detour is needed to get to that point, financially speaking.

I wouldn't forget to check what the fanbase asked louder than the rest.
Cross that with the foreseen costs of developing such things, and what you get is pretty much probably what we're having now.

But I guess you'd need to be part of the developing team...
I have no idea how they're programming or what the code looks like.

I look at RoF and I smile.
I'm happy to have spent what I have.



Couldn't really ask more.

That's what you get when the squeaky wheel... etc Anyway, they are here now and they have their place in single missions or online early war dogfights. I think it is a good decision of the devs to keep concentrating on mid and late war: better to get one period fleshed out than have a bit of everything here and there.

I hope to see the career mode lose its "Beta" status this year. There are still too many rough edges to make it truly great (some superficial, like AI pilot names, other a bit more under the hood), but I understand that they need to create payware in order to keep further development going. I don't usually buy addons for other games, so when I look at my full hangar I see that the ROF team must be doing something right

I am glad to see they are going to try to continue developing the game. But I can not afford to give them money on the hope that if they get enough pre-orders they will continue working on it. Maybe if they gave us an idea of how much is needed or how close to the financial goals they are away from getting there it would make it easier to part with my money. I have pretty much bought everything this game has offered and will continue to support them with pre-ordering content that does not have a disclaimer in the ordering section. When and if this new content is confirmed to be released for sure, I will purchase it without hesitation.

Before I actually played the game, I would have thought that the 1916 planes were more fun. Now That I've
bought into the vision of the game and flown the Brisfit and the Dolphin, I really like the strange
feeling of raw power that this game somehow makes visceral. I look forward to floatplanes and naval events
and I think this is the best simulation game I've ever played. It has completely changed my view of
the First World War.

I think you're misreading it. It's not that there's a chance they won't come out, it's more a "we won't give you a concrete release date" type of disclaimer. It could be a month, it could be 2, it could be 4. After over 2 years and expanding their user base I don't think there's a chance they'll change their minds. It's only up for preorder because it's close. Stuff that might not make it I doubt would be announced.



The Jedi Master

You are wrong, sorry.

From the RoF forums from the man himself.

der_zahn wrote:
I have a question about pre-ordering the map, in the blog you state " Obviously, if this new map project is successful it can open up possibilities for other new maps in the long term." On the pre-order page you state *No Refunds on pre-orders due to the complex nature of our development schedules. We apologize for any inconvenience" does this mean that even if the map is not made public for some unforeseen reason we will not get our money back?


Yes, that is the case. If you don't want to help us make all this a reality, then that's your choice, but if there are not enough folks who support us we run the risk of failure and you may not see all this. So far, this has never been a problem becasue the community ha supported our plans. We don't anticipate a problem, but if money dries up there could be a problem. Welcome to our little world of trying to run a business in a small niche market.

Jason

I myself thought it was kinda lame that they would not put it in there somewhere that there was chance no matter how slight it might have been that it might not happen unless they get the proper amount of funding from the pre-orders and that reason is why I did not pre-order this. I am not implying I think that it's not going to happen in any way shape or form mind you, its just how I feel about this situation. when they remove the disclaimer from the pre order page I will gladly pre-order them.

Gentlemen ( and ladies ), this subject and variant posts thereof have been all over the ROF forums of late.

This is in no way official, as I am not part of the dev team nor a beta tester, but the "sneak peek" we got of Water 2.0 from last summer appears to finally be making it's appearance http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/post/2011/06/24/Version-1020.aspx on the new Channel Map.

* WAG Mode on *

Given 777's penchant for letting it's fans speculate on things, I believe there's quite a bit to this new map that will pleasantly surprise many...that is why I have pre-ordered everything and anxiously await it.

For those of you who are convinced ROF is going the "wrong direction" by not filling in the current plane set, or focusing on fixing flight / damage models to make things more realistic, I think you are overlooking the fact that 777 needs to offer something new to keep the "ball" rolling and revenue coming in ( which includes incentive to develop more ), while at the same time committing resources to addressing those very issues...issues which ARE slowly being addressed, but there's a LOT on their "plate" that a small team like theirs has to deal with.

I feel that, barring the fact that Jason isn't telling us a whole lot ( I have a pet theory that he gets his "kicks" out of pleasantly surprising people, but that's just me ), this new map may function as a small "pond" ( pun intended...Channel, pond...nvm ) to showcase improvements to ROF's Digital Nature engine that may include reallocating resources to enable more and varied ground objects among other things ( who knows? ).

I also think that quite a lot of hard work has gone into this new map ( which would justify the "joining fee" being as high as it is ) and it will open new channels ( really, NO pun intended this time ) to further development and releases. I think if people are patient and jump on board now, later on "down the road" there will be a lot of surprises that will make ROF MUCH better than it is now.

* WAG Mode off *

Finally, I believe that eventually more of those early war planes will be modeled and included as well as quite a bit of new content, FM fixes and the like...however, it's going to take time.

Regards.

I think what we can take away from the update is that there are only THREE airplanes coming out the year (I think last year was five?). That means only three flight models to sort out (cited by Jason and others as being by far the most work on every new airplane). Just going by this update, it looks like the flight modellers have about ~60% of the work load from last year (I don't how much harder it will be for the big Felixstowe or water planes in general). Also, the DH-4 is, I believe, a left over from the development of the Knights of the Sky project (as is a DH-9 I saw pics for once upon a time). If it is indeed true that the flight modellers have a smaller work load, does it not stand to reason that they could be re-allocated to adjust existing FMs for each new patch as 777 has done recently (every new patch seems to have an FM fix or two in it)? I think the FM problems will be largely sorted by 2013.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

Last year there were 8 aircraft, same as the year before that ( granted, two of 2011's planes were variants of the same airframe ) : http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=27521

Also in 2011, the Nieuport 17 flight model was revised http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/post/2011/11/20/Version-1022.aspx as well as the SE.5a ( no link, sorry ) as was part of the AI. There were also other improvements made, all while offering 6+ aircraft.

I have a feeling there are more details NOT mentioned simply because what they have at the moment is enough to stay busy for quite some time. Keep in mind the Halberstadt CL.II is still having the finishing touches put on and should be released in the next week or two IMO.

Since our perspective is lacking in detailed information, ( left that way purposely by Jason? ) I'm of the hard opinion that his latest post regarding the 2012 roadmap is only a "primer". As summer gets closer, I think we're in for more surprises.

I think it's fair to say that not all details of what's going on this year are in that update - even as a beta tester we get roadmaps that don't line up with each release i.e. there's more stuff in the release than we ever knew about.

777--Please listen. I'd prefer more single-seat 1915/1916 planes please from both sides. This is in my eyes the weakest part of RoF. I love those old crates, please give us some more.

Thanks.

I have to admit I'll probably eventually buy anything 777 puts out, finances permitting, and I am definately going to pre-order the DH4 once the Halberstadt is released, but . . . I'd personally prefer more 1916-era 2-seaters (i.e. target practice ), improvements to the career mode (bigger late war engagements, more immersive interface), and an AI that does a better job of mimiccing, as opposed to just challenging, humans.

Preordered it all! I cannot wait!

Old models are not being re-used for the current development of the game.

Thanks for the correction Luke (the old models did look kind of sh*&^y compared to the gems currently in RoF). The DH-4 deosn't get me excited in the slightest (although it is an important type and certainly worthy of inclusion in the sim). I'll pass on the cockpit but admire it from afar (after shooting it down :P). I preordered the channel map and the seaplanes (Hansa-Brandenburg and its Austrian subsidiaries are some of my favorite plane makers from WWI) so there is plently in Jason's update for me to get excited about.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

Ah, the Monday morning quarterbacks have arrived...

Don't you guys realise that your one and only wish may not be the one and only wish of everybody else? So ridiculous to hear this constant choir of "why didn't they do exactly what I wanted them to do!?"... - Grow up for chrissake.

It would appear that the 3rd string defense has also arrived.

Belgian air force and channel map better than italian (and american) against austrian and hungarian air forces on the Piave front?

Forget my support/pre-orders and good luck.

Gatt (former Core Beta tester)

Must be frustrating for you not to see Piave front as a map yet (it is impossible for them to please everyone one), but the blog post did mention the possibility of other maps if the channel map sales well. To be honest I had never heard much about the Piave front, but I hope someday it does get implemented as I am sure I'd buy it and learn more about this front.

Interestingly we have no Eastern front yet, I don't recall seeing the ability to fight in the career as an Imperial Russian pilot and yet.

Yeah, the Italian front would rule. You would need at least 7-8 new planes per side to do the Austrian and Italian forces justice. I think the issue with the Italian front is that the map is a MUCH nastier project to tackle than the channel - huge areas, mountains, rugged terrain, oceans, new textures -for the ground almost everywhere to show Alpine/Southern European vegetation. There is also a seaplane component to the Italian front. My guess is that 777 aims to eventually have the Austrians and Italians in game but they needed to trial a bunch of the stuff needed first. Water 2.0, ships, subs and seaplane physics being important components of a future Austro-Italian pack, a nice smallish map with similar vegetation to the stock map (no new land textures) can be used to test all these important features out before they attack the REALLY hard maps of the Italian and Eastern Fronts. I urge you to stick around. It is easy to see how some people can be disappointed with the 2012 raodmap but please look to the big picture. RoF is a good game and Jason has a history of not letting us know everything.

for A-H we need:
-Hansa-Brandenburg C.I (early & late versions)
-Hansa-Brandenburg D.I (early & late versions)
-Phoenix D.I (if H-B D.I(late) is not included - they are very similar, although Phoenix model is superior, add as a variant, maybe?)
-Aviatik-Berg D.I
-Oeffag-Albatros D.III
-Phoenix C.I or UFAG C.I (ideally both but I'm not sure if they are similar enough to pass as variants of the same plane (both are actually license copies of the Hansa-Brandenburg C.II (landplane version of the H-B W.12 announced by 777)).
-Lohner E or L

for Italy we need:
-Ansaldo S.V.A.5
-S.I.A 7 & 9 (SIA7 was apparently used by the Americans as well)
-Pomilio PE
-Hanriot HD.1
-Caproni Ca.44 or 46 (additional Capronis may also be needed)
-Macchi M5

Experts on this front may have more types to add.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

Italian - Austro-Hungarian front better than the Eastern front with Russian Ilya Mourometz bombers? And both of those scenarios better than the little-known colonial German East Africa - South Africa air war, with German coconut bombers pitted against the all-white Apartheid triplanes of General Smuts?

Gatt, you can just forget my support of anybody with a four-letter SimHQ user name!

... Don't be so bloody ridiculous please...

No, it honestly isn't easy to see at all.

We have a fantastic sim about a subject that interests very few people in this world. It is only profitable because it is run out of Moscow where wages are low. It wouldn't exist if it weren't for the dedication of the developers and the owner. They'd all be able to easily earn much more if they programmed smartphone apps or fantasy shooters.

Yet they are presenting us with a full program for the future development of the sim, an ambitious program in all respects.

It is only if you choose to have a total disconnect from economic reality and if you choose to totally disregard the dedication of the developers that you can "be disappointed". The scary thing is that quite a few people actually seem to be disappointed. I don't know what alternate reality they live in, but it must be a really amazing wonderland of free hi-fidelity sims for everybody if the reality of RoF's future development seems disappointing by comparison.

Oh yeah, and I have had enough of RoF and its stinking deceitful developers because they won't give me Me ME! the Ellehammer Triplane of 1907, which - as everybody MUST realise - is of crucial importance to the Early-war plane set.

Hi Freycinet,
I'm not so sure that Triplane could hold up against early models in ROF.
I fear even a Eindecker could make short work of it.

But I totally understand your disappointment.
I decided to abandon RoF for the lack of the MOST important feature ever.

I mean, seriously, WHERE IS THE 3D HUT where the pilots live in to be explored in 3D First Person Shooter style!

Dang! They could make SO MUCH money if they also developed the DLC with the 3D model of the naked nurse on the bed!

I mean, this simulator is obviously going nowhere.

You know, like... you know, nowhere.
Rrrrright!


(Do I have to write it?)

Funny. And I always thought people can be disappointed AND STILL support the devs by buying new addons, which is what I tend to do when the overall effort is IMO worthwhile. But then I'm an accredited moron, am I not

There are 9 levels of disappointment from "oh well" to "OMG THEY LEFT OUT THIS THING I THINK IS MOST IMPORTANT EVAR". So far, all mine in ROF has consisted of levels 1 "oh well" to 3. The AI is my level 3. Stupid deck diving. Ok, maybe it's level 4.

I think some people are way too caught up in this, though. Frankly I'd be fine with this being confined to the Western Front 100% as long as it covered the entire war with recent depth, not just the later years. So...zeppelins?



The Jedi Master

Frey, before replying in such a stupid way, read a little of history of the Piave/Adriatic Sea fronts and then come back ... without that ridiculous cheerleader dress please.

Whoa dude, chill! I didn't say I was disappointed, myself. I've pre-ordered the map and both seaplanes (a value of ~$50.00 CDN). Hansa-Brandenburgs are among my favorite CP aircraft. I just know that many people are very passionate about their favorite fronts of WWI and listening to the conversation here and in the RoF forums, I don't think the Channel was at the top of most people's wanted lists. I think from a developmental satndpoint, the channel presents a unique advantage of being a relatively low resource investment for a new area to expand RoF's gameplay and to test out the mechanics of things like the new water, ships and seaplanes that will come in handy when 777 does move to the Piave or Eastern fronts (which will happen eventually, I think). Please remember that fans of the Piave front and WWI eastern fronts have had to wait for new material since the old mods for RB3D came out back in the day. It's been a while and I can understand the frustration of having to wait so long to fly a RoF Phoenix C.I over the alps.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

I am with Jedi Master. I would have much preferred an expansion of the existing planes. I think that seaplanes are what you do when 1918, 1917,and mid-late 1916 are more solid. But that's my $.02 and not how it worked out. Oh well, maybe next time.

Yes, I will buy the seaplanes. Honestly,I am more excited about the map than I am about the seaplanes, but I will buy them anyway. I will also buy the Hannover and DH4 ... and the Zeppelin when it gets announced about a year from now .

I think you can equate ROF with Jeff Goldblum's comments in Lost World.

"Sure, at the start it's all 'oohs' and 'aahs'. Later comes the running and screaming."

Now that everyone appreciates what ROF has done for what it has, they want X, Y, and Z in there. They want it their way or it's some affront. The importance of one aspect or another to the overall war is irrelevant, it's what's important to ROF that matters.
A major component of every war is logistics, yet few flight sims bother to go beyond supply of planes and pilots, maybe to some extent particular weapons. You never have "half of squadron grounded to shortage of engine spares" or "lack of replacement gun barrels." That's because while it was important to the war, the game can work just fine without it.



The Jedi Master

While I can certainly empathize with Frey’s position – as I think he is just trying to remind everyone that we should be more thankful for what we do have, rather than being disappointed by what we don’t.

However, that said, I can also see the points of others as well, even if I can’t agree entirely with them.

Look at it this way...

Instead of coming at this with everyone’s own “selfish” point of view (as we all want specific features, and think they are most important to add next – my personal is AI improvements in both gunnery and flight skill) – try seeing this from the developer’s point of view.

How long have they been working tirelessly on Rise of Flight? Coming up on 3 years now, more if you include all the time in pre-beta and alpha stages!

After what, 28 aircraft - Churning out more aircraft has got be pretty darn boring for them these days. I mean really! Especially with the limited data they have on FMs. Would you all be happy in such a repetitive job? My guess is no. Additionally, it wouldn’t be very business savvy to keep ROF the same – and just add more aircraft – they’re constantly striving to make core improvements – as they should.

These guys are probably itching for a challenge, to try something a little different, something new. Look at all the recent scuttlebutt of going WW2 and stuff. No, I think (hope) they want to improve what they already have. Previously, they branched out into multi-engine and we got the HP 400 and the Gotha out of the deal!

Now, I think the advancement comes to water! Currently, we have wheels touching the water and wham, we make a big splash…no skipping on water surface at all. It looks like we are going to get some better physics in regards with water. And this time, we get a few float planes out of the deal.

I think, no matter which direction ROF takes in 2012, it will be UP!

It’s just one more thing to add to the fundamental physics - the core of ROF if you will – and we get some cool little baubles along the way!


It’s all in how you look at it. Just like some may see me in a cheerleader’s outfit as well.

If they get float planes working I hope they do field mods to add floats to some of the planes that had them. Although they would have to adjust the flight models to reflect the aero/weight changes.

WAIT...Did they announce the Hannover CL.III? Or are you just referring to the Halberstadt CL.II (sad sound of balloons deflating).

I am also with Master, in that planes that historically had floats should get them some day (Albatros W.4 from D.II comes to mind). Unfortunately, this would likely entail a full FM re-write for such a plane (a ton of work) so I doubt we would see it as a field mod. Priority should also be low since there are many other good or better places to spend scarce resources.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

lol with pom poms and everything!

Shoot, I don't even like WWI and I've bought almost everything 777 has offered to sell (in recognition of the high quality of what they released so far . . . and in the faint hope they may one day release a WWII or Korean War sim). People can be dissappointed with this or that without being guilty of somehow pushing 777 out of business.

No, neglecting to buy a plane or map or something you don't want isn't going to be catastrophic. For example, I didn't get the pilot scarf/pistol mod or the SP campaign because I have no need of them.
Walking away from the game and vowing never to return to support future additions? Well if enough people do it in a fit of pique, it could be a problem. To say "I won't buy that early war 2-seater that I might have otherwise because a map of XYZ isn't going to be done anytime soon" or some other "if they don't do this, I throw it away" ultimatum just reinforces the flight simmer stereotype.



The Jedi Master

It also makes it that much harder for them to do the add-on you want without funding.

I have fully supported RoF from day one, bought every available aircraft/addon and will continue to as well.
But I have to admit, I'm standing in no mans land at the moment and can see both sides of the srguement.

The Devs are pushing the sim forward with a new map and new technology, plus new aircraft.

But it's not a map I'm that interested in, I'd prefer a Nothern Italy/Austrian front.
I'm not that bothered by floatplanes either and would prefer to see more of the earlier 2 seaters.

However I'll still be playing RoF throughout the next year as my primary simulation and will still enjoy all it has to offer.

The real important thing to remember here though is that they have a 3rd party studio making planes now so we should see planes released faster than previously. (hopefully)

It has always been stated that the long pole is FM development and not the models.

Well, I think the demo was offered for free with the hope that the new players would be interested enough to start investing some money into the game. A map of the scope that they are going to attempt will take a lot of time and effort. They really are going to have to be compensated for it.
The plans do look terrific, Jason. I can see that you guys are in this for the long haul.
Who know, maybe the Italian Front, one day. Imagine flying around those mountains. But okay...one step at a time.

Yes, I wanted to see more 1916 development too, but when I heard that the Channel map was planned I said YES!

It may not have been my first preference, but OK, I'll roll with it and learn more about RNAS, float planes, sub patrols, and hopefully...

I'm confused-do some folks forget that the guys working on ROF are trying to make a LIVING!!!!!!!!!!!

These poor b@%tards are trying to make a living working on a sim that's more than a few years old. I'm constantly amazed at the amount of work these people keep putting into an "old" sim and one that they should have "moved on' from months ago.

I can't imagine that ANYONE will ever put this much effort into this kind of sim.

I don't fly any other sims and I'm eternally grateful for anything the ROF guys add to what is the best flight sim ever.

'Course that's my owm personal humble opinion!

Sorry 'copter, you lost me when the 'starving babies' scenario was invoked... Not my cup of tea. If business is going to be used as a driving factor, then keep it to business, don't play me a violin.

Yes, I will support RoF development as long as the opinion of the community is taken into account. The announcement for 2012 was walking a thin line in that regard. So yes, I can sincerely see the dissenting members' position, but perhaps I have more patience than the average bloke.

As we are reminded quite often, the future of RoF is in our hands, so, then,... well I've said enough.

EDIT: Have mentioned this elsewhere, I too was excited to hear of the Channel map and what it opens up for us. But sad to hear that 1916 is delayed. Meanwhile I have patience and faith that it will be addressed eventually.

Some of you seem to imply that the RoF dev team didn't listen to the community, but I remember seeing a lot of support for a channel map last year in the forums. It wasn't my favourite plan, but I'm OK with it, I want to support the sim and a other players asked for it, so I'll happily go with it. And one has to recognize that they're making efforts to develop brand new things that weren't featured in previous WWI sims; I like innovation!

Slightly disappointed about the big 2012 picture.... I must admit... I just hope there will be also allocated resources to:
- increase AI REAL behaviors and tactics (ruses, defensive circles, multi altitude protection, better Ace behaviors, etc...)
- increase the richness of the Campaign mode
- Do 1915-16 most important "prey" planes (Aviatiks, albatros C class, Breguet M5, DH2, Morane bullet for EIII, ...)
- put MORE LIFE on friendly and enemi airfields

From all the news, only the channel map is really of interest for me and maybe the DH4... but flying seaplanes? not really, sorry...

Channel Map, Seaplanes (I'm looking forward to them) and DH4, big headline stuff. Don't forget this part:

"With the increased focus on content we also hope to work on some new ground objects that will allow mission makers to create some more interesting ground scenery at airfields and on the roads etc. We will first work with some select individuals to establish a procedure making these models and then eventually, assuming all goes well, we can include other members of the community in this modeling effort.

Finally, we know you want us to continue to improve the sim in other ways and we will continue to do that as best we can with the resources we have available. We will try to improve the flight-models of various aircraft and make improvements to the AI and other parts of the sim. Based on what we have been told by the community, we are working to prioritize what we can do for you and balance our schedule and resources to make some of them become a reality in 2012. As always, the community wish-list is long and exhaustive, but we do look at it to see what can be done. A lot of the requested changes cannot be easily done, so it takes time to research each one before spending the resources to complete them."

I do hope the campaign continues be have features and depth added, along with your other points, however I know its going to take a fair amount of time and all the points you've made may not make it in this year or even the next.

Awesome. I just pre-ordered everything. Very excited about the Felixstowe.

Now i,am Preordered too