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#3515794 - 02/10/12 05:49 PM Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise"  
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MedinaES Offline
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Full interview here.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/te...ht_boss_on.html

Staff EDIT: Article repost removed.


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#3515816 - 02/10/12 06:12 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: MedinaES]  
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Quote:

Q: It seems like the tradeoff you made - building richer, smaller locales to explore in the game - is the loss of the full, open world that could be explored in "Flight Simulator"?

A: The bet we've made is that to the non-hardcore simmer, flying the whole world isn't as interesting when there's nothing really interesting to see or do. I do get that for some segment of the audience that was one of the values - I can fly anywhere, into any airport, 25,000-odd airports was crazy.

But I think as you try to broaden and you want to bring in not the next million or two but the next 20 million or 30 million people, you say I will err on the side of more interesting area that's dense than the same amount of content spread all over the globe. There's a lot to do in Hawaii, and Hawaii is gorgeous.


I'm so sick of this, hey lets appeal to everyone. Yeah they'll make more money but they're creating an ethos of a shallow, pick up and play mentallity to flight simming. Why couldn't they have progressed with FSX taking it one stage further? they could add all the crap that they are doing with this to an actual flight sim so that when people get a taste for it they can progress within the sim. It seems as though Flight will just be a dead end for casual gamers that pick it up because where will they go when they need depth and true simulation?

And no, fly anywhere into any airport isn't crazy it's aviation and it's what people that bought Flight Simulator wanted. I'm sure Hawaii is gorgeous, but there isn't 'alot to do' in aviation terms. There is in a car, or a micro light or v small GA aircraft. There's a little sight seeing.

Everything is getting so watered down.

#3515830 - 02/10/12 06:22 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: MedinaES]  
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#3515881 - 02/10/12 07:24 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: MedinaES]  
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Glad the franchise hasn't gone the way of the Dodo, like it appeared it might have a couple years ago.

Looking forward to this!

#3515895 - 02/10/12 07:49 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: Tigerwulf]  
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Weaponz248 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tigerwulf
Quote:

Q: It seems like the tradeoff you made - building richer, smaller locales to explore in the game - is the loss of the full, open world that could be explored in "Flight Simulator"?

A: The bet we've made is that to the non-hardcore simmer, flying the whole world isn't as interesting when there's nothing really interesting to see or do. I do get that for some segment of the audience that was one of the values - I can fly anywhere, into any airport, 25,000-odd airports was crazy.

But I think as you try to broaden and you want to bring in not the next million or two but the next 20 million or 30 million people, you say I will err on the side of more interesting area that's dense than the same amount of content spread all over the globe. There's a lot to do in Hawaii, and Hawaii is gorgeous.


I'm so sick of this, hey lets appeal to everyone. Yeah they'll make more money but they're creating an ethos of a shallow, pick up and play mentallity to flight simming. Why couldn't they have progressed with FSX taking it one stage further? they could add all the crap that they are doing with this to an actual flight sim so that when people get a taste for it they can progress within the sim. It seems as though Flight will just be a dead end for casual gamers that pick it up because where will they go when they need depth and true simulation?

And no, fly anywhere into any airport isn't crazy it's aviation and it's what people that bought Flight Simulator wanted. I'm sure Hawaii is gorgeous, but there isn't 'alot to do' in aviation terms. There is in a car, or a micro light or v small GA aircraft. There's a little sight seeing.

Everything is getting so watered down.


+1

I agree with you bud. I play a flight sim for the sim aspect and to fly into different airports and to fly different airplanes. I do some sight seeing but I like the ability to load up a airport anywhere and just fly.

I will be honest I was going to stick with FSX but I did some research and decided to go with X plane 10. It helped that the wife let me!

Microsoft will probably lose some hardcore simmers but in the end the massive gain of casual gamers will end up helping Microsoft make more money.


XBOX Live Tag/Steam/PSN: Weaponz248

#3515901 - 02/10/12 07:54 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: MedinaES]  
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It's kinda sad when you realize you're not in the targeted audience group for what used to be THE PC flightsim anymore.


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#3515902 - 02/10/12 07:54 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: Weaponz248]  
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Originally Posted By: Weaponz248
Microsoft will probably lose some hardcore simmers but in the end the massive gain of casual gamers will end up helping Microsoft make more money.


This is exactly the scenario that will happen and ultimately is really the only thing that MS cares about. I can't say I really blame them though. MS is a multi-billion dollar company so why would they waste their time and resources in making a product that only a relatively small number of consumers will buy when instead they can make something that will potentially attract a much larger group of consumers?

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 02/10/12 07:59 PM.

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#3515924 - 02/10/12 08:16 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: MedinaES]  
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It's just too bad the program can't do both.



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#3515928 - 02/10/12 08:19 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: Weaponz248]  
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Johan217 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Weaponz248

Microsoft will probably lose some hardcore simmers but in the end the massive gain of casual gamers will end up helping Microsoft make more money.
I very much doubt that the average gamer will find the idea of flying through hoops appealing. Now if MS had come up with "Red Bull Air Racing 2012" or "Air Rescue Squad", then I could see their point, and it would probably even have appealed to part of the flightsimmer crowd.

Last edited by Johan217; 02/10/12 08:19 PM.

Undercarriage lever a bit sticky was it, Sir?
#3515936 - 02/10/12 08:28 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: MedinaES]  
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To be honest, I don't think that there really is a huge market of "casual flight simmers" out there.

There are actually a lot of other flight sims that are less complex than MS FS and X-Plane, many of them are free, some of them can be played on the iPad and NONE of them has garnered a huge slice of the "gaming market".

Let's face it, flying appeals to us but not to a large percentage of the population.

Those who DO like flight simming primarily enjoy it for its realism and immersion and a big part of that immersion is that its NOT a simplification of reality, its an effort to recreate reality with all its complexity.

In short, I feel MS has got the wrong end of the stick and has let go of a bird in the hand in the hopes of catching two illusory birds in the bush.


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#3515938 - 02/10/12 08:29 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: MedinaES]  
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I will probably download it just to see what it's all about.

Will I buy anything for it? No.


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#3515945 - 02/10/12 08:35 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: MedinaES]  
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MedinaES Offline
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Flight will be a copy of FSX but with smaller maps. Cockpits, flight model will be even improved with respect to FSX stock planes.

I think that's the only way to make some money. With FSX they just made money from selling its sim but no money at all through addons. I see what they are doing a logical step.

I only hope their addons keep a decent quality which is the one of the things that really concerns me.

#3515957 - 02/10/12 08:48 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: Johan217]  
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Originally Posted By: Johan217
I very much doubt that the average gamer will find the idea of flying through hoops appealing. Now if MS had come up with "Red Bull Air Racing 2012" or "Air Rescue Squad", then I could see their point, and it would probably even have appealed to part of the flightsimmer crowd.


I completly agree with you!

I could be wrong but I don't see "arcade" flight games (where I certainly include this Flight game) being that sucessfull even if compared with "hi-fidelity" or "realistic" fligth simulators (like FSX for example). What I'm saying is that I don't see or rarelly see kiddies or casual gamers or usual gammers playing flight games even if they are arcadish but regarding to realistic flight sims I do see people playing them (even if they are rather "few" in numbers). Note that "arcade" flight games are nowhere near as sucessfully as "arcade" FPS games such as Call of Duty and I think many devs such as Microsoft simply don't understand this!
And also, Microsoft flight SIMULATOR sims seem to be a little diferent from other sims where Microsoft earned with this several MILLIONS of dollars a feat that VERY FEW game series/franchises including arcade FPS games can or will be able to match or claim!
So that I'm saying is that IMO, Microsoft will shoot themselfs on the foot on this one since the vast majority of Microsoft flight SIMULATOR copies sold were to people who really are aircraft enthusiasts and some of them real pilots and I doubt that most of these public will have an interest in this latest Microsoft Flight game.
The only advantage that I see in the Microsoft Flight game compared to Microsoft flight SIMULATOR is that the former one will probably be less costly to develop than the later one but I doubt that the sales of Microsoft Flight game will be even near to those achived with Microsoft flight SIMULATOR.

Many here, wish sucess to Microsoft but I don't!! -> I hope Microsoft shoots itself in the foot regarding this one and that's because I see it as one of the few ways for our hobby (flight simulations) to "survive".

#3515982 - 02/10/12 09:23 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: MedinaES]  
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But do casual gamers really want to fly the Seabee or the Stearman through hoops over Hawaii ? No, they want to do crazy things in a 747, F-18 or Extra 300. Wait, couldn't you do just that in FSX ?

They're trying to make some sort of civilian Ace Combat or HAWKs, but these titles were more (or less, depending on the point of view) than just dumbed-down versions of Lock-On on a pocker-size map.

I sense and epic fail coming...

Cheers

Nico


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#3515986 - 02/10/12 09:27 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: ricnunes]  
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MedinaES Offline
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Originally Posted By: Johan217
I very much doubt that the average gamer will find the idea of flying through hoops appealing. Now if MS had come up with "Red Bull Air Racing 2012" or "Air Rescue Squad", then I could see their point, and it would probably even have appealed to part of the flightsimmer crowd.


I completly agree with you!

I could be wrong but I don't see "arcade" flight games (where I certainly include this Flight game) being that sucessfull even if compared with "hi-fidelity" or "realistic" fligth simulators (like FSX for example). What I'm saying is that I don't see or rarelly see kiddies or casual gamers or usual gammers playing flight games even if they are arcadish but regarding to realistic flight sims I do see people playing them (even if they are rather "few" in numbers). Note that "arcade" flight games are nowhere near as sucessfully as "arcade" FPS games such as Call of Duty and I think many devs such as Microsoft simply don't understand this!
And also, Microsoft flight SIMULATOR sims seem to be a little diferent from other sims where Microsoft earned with this several MILLIONS of dollars a feat that VERY FEW game series/franchises including arcade FPS games can or will be able to match or claim!
So that I'm saying is that IMO, Microsoft will shoot themselfs on the foot on this one since the vast majority of Microsoft flight SIMULATOR copies sold were to people who really are aircraft enthusiasts and some of them real pilots and I doubt that most of these public will have an interest in this latest Microsoft Flight game.
The only advantage that I see in the Microsoft Flight game compared to Microsoft flight SIMULATOR is that the former one will probably be less costly to develop than the later one but I doubt that the sales of Microsoft Flight game will be even near to those achived with Microsoft flight SIMULATOR.

Many here, wish sucess to Microsoft but I don't!! -> I hope Microsoft shoots itself in the foot regarding this one and that's because I see it as one of the few ways for our hobby (flight simulations) to "survive".


MS Flight is as simulator as FSX is. MS Flight includes full realistic start up procedures which makes it a SIMULATOR.
They have made it more appealing for the masses by adding missions and other things but when flown in full realism settings, the Flight model and start up procedures as far as I could see on the beta are at the same level and even better than on FSX.

#3516001 - 02/10/12 10:00 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: MedinaES]  
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Johan217 Offline
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Originally Posted By: jt_medina

MS Flight is as simulator as FSX is. MS Flight includes full realistic start up procedures which makes it a SIMULATOR.
They have made it more appealing for the masses by adding missions and other things but when flown in full realism settings, the Flight model and start up procedures as far as I could see on the beta are at the same level and even better than on FSX.
I'm happy to hear that, but for me that is not enough. I want to see AI traffic (even if only in fictional liveries) and follow ATC instructions. This is why I chose Flight Unlimited over MSFS for a long time. Flight may have functional circuit breakers for all I care, but without AI traffic (among other things) it will feel like being set back 15 years.

I would love to believe that MS will be producing ORBX-quality scenery, Accusim-quality aircraft, and other features such as AI traffic, flight instruction, flight planners of the quality that we have in FSX free- and payware. But honestly I doubt this is going to happen.

Last edited by Johan217; 02/10/12 10:06 PM.

Undercarriage lever a bit sticky was it, Sir?
#3516026 - 02/10/12 10:32 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: Weaponz248]  
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Originally Posted By: Weaponz248
Originally Posted By: Tigerwulf
Quote:

Q: It seems like the tradeoff you made - building richer, smaller locales to explore in the game - is the loss of the full, open world that could be explored in "Flight Simulator"?

A: The bet we've made is that to the non-hardcore simmer, flying the whole world isn't as interesting when there's nothing really interesting to see or do. I do get that for some segment of the audience that was one of the values - I can fly anywhere, into any airport, 25,000-odd airports was crazy.

But I think as you try to broaden and you want to bring in not the next million or two but the next 20 million or 30 million people, you say I will err on the side of more interesting area that's dense than the same amount of content spread all over the globe. There's a lot to do in Hawaii, and Hawaii is gorgeous.


I'm so sick of this, hey lets appeal to everyone. Yeah they'll make more money but they're creating an ethos of a shallow, pick up and play mentallity to flight simming. Why couldn't they have progressed with FSX taking it one stage further? they could add all the crap that they are doing with this to an actual flight sim so that when people get a taste for it they can progress within the sim. It seems as though Flight will just be a dead end for casual gamers that pick it up because where will they go when they need depth and true simulation?

And no, fly anywhere into any airport isn't crazy it's aviation and it's what people that bought Flight Simulator wanted. I'm sure Hawaii is gorgeous, but there isn't 'alot to do' in aviation terms. There is in a car, or a micro light or v small GA aircraft. There's a little sight seeing.

Everything is getting so watered down.


+1

I agree with you bud. I play a flight sim for the sim aspect and to fly into different airports and to fly different airplanes. I do some sight seeing but I like the ability to load up a airport anywhere and just fly.

I will be honest I was going to stick with FSX but I did some research and decided to go with X plane 10. It helped that the wife let me!

Microsoft will probably lose some hardcore simmers but in the end the massive gain of casual gamers will end up helping Microsoft make more money.



Prepar3d...


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#3516085 - 02/10/12 11:49 PM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: Cold_Gambler]  
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Originally Posted By: Cold_Gambler
To be honest, I don't think that there really is a huge market of "casual flight simmers" out there.



There are not even many people interested in arcade style flying games. While the Ace Combat series on the PS2 sold well, with two of the titles earning the "Greatest Hits" label they are still rather unknown and low profile. The latest entry, Assault Horizon, have to shift its focus towards being a CoD style clone with jets because the team was told they were not selling enough copies of the previous Ace Combat style. It would also explain why the few arcade flight games released were done by smaller companies. And the number of these games (Lethal Skies, Aero Elite) have been deceasing steadily over the years.

If casual gamers do not have enough interest in Ace Combat style games, I don't see how something more realistic will sell extremely well. They probably would have a more solid market if they stuck with FSX style realism/gameplay.

#3516102 - 02/11/12 12:20 AM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: Flogger23m]  
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Originally Posted By: Flogger23m
Originally Posted By: Cold_Gambler
To be honest, I don't think that there really is a huge market of "casual flight simmers" out there.



There are not even many people interested in arcade style flying games. While the Ace Combat series on the PS2 sold well, with two of the titles earning the "Greatest Hits" label they are still rather unknown and low profile. The latest entry, Assault Horizon, have to shift its focus towards being a CoD style clone with jets because the team was told they were not selling enough copies of the previous Ace Combat style. It would also explain why the few arcade flight games released were done by smaller companies. And the number of these games (Lethal Skies, Aero Elite) have been deceasing steadily over the years.

If casual gamers do not have enough interest in Ace Combat style games, I don't see how something more realistic will sell extremely well. They probably would have a more solid market if they stuck with FSX style realism/gameplay.


While I agree that the 'casual flight sim' market is a bit of a risk for mainstream adoption, your cited AC series numbers look a bit off. The AC6:AH alone has sold about 500,000 units world-wide, with the AC6 before that (just Xbox exclusive) being around 900,000 - and AH still has some more legs in it - plus this is console titles at $60 a pop.

To put it in to perspective, Namco/PA have made more money in 'flight sims' (chuckle) than Maddox Games, Eagle Dynamics and any other of the sims we love to play by a factor of about 10 (guessing, unless the DCS series made more than $20 million and they just keep quiet about it lol). Ironically, Microsoft FSX was the last 'mainstream' money-maker for a large publisher (if you ignore Ubisoft's hands-off approach of SH and CloD)

Microsoft will make a profit on Flight, and might have a new franchise to attract console players (perhaps not the 360, but the one after it) - and the idea of 'putt putt'ing around Maui on the 50' TV with friends' could appeal in large numbers.

Personally it's not what I like, i.e. I'd prefer chess over checkers, but I don't see the harm in a world where lots of different types of players exist. Maybe some of them will go on to wanting a more 'hardcore' experience - and all boats float up etc. Given that FSX was dead, and that Prepare3d exists, there's no harm in Microsoft Flight for our hobby.

#3516130 - 02/11/12 12:48 AM Re: Microsoft Flight boss on "rebooting franchise" [Re: FearlessFrog]  
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Originally Posted By: FearlessFrog
Given that FSX was dead, and that Prepare3d exists, there's no harm in Microsoft Flight for our hobby.


Agree. While a larger choice of realistic civilian sims would certainly never go amiss, Flight being what it is will at least not be a particularly great loss.

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