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#3512245 - 02/05/12 04:44 PM
JU88 kamikaze , FMB
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Reverse engineered CloD simmer
Veteran
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 14662
Loc: Brisbane OZ
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Set up three seperate flights of 88s hitting static shipping and they all slowly glide down from their waypoint of 400m ( gattack-set on ship ) and crash either into the water or drop right on the ship at 5 metres or so and blow up. Tried from 100m up to 800m and same result,suicide. If i take out the SET option and just leave it as a gattack at 2000m they will bomb, but i have to fine tune to get them to hit, and i dont want them bombing at that height anyway. Waypoints are as follows ..takeoff/180m normal flight (which is where i wanted them to stay the whole flight)/ 400m normal flight/400m gattack (with SET option targeted on static ship)/400m after gattack point. Speed is 400 ks for every waypoint after takeoff. The gattack waypoint is about 1 kilometres out from the ships in a nice big straight line and then the egress is another kilometre before they begin a turn Three lots of 88s seperated horizontally by about 500ms and at slightly different heights, i flight of two and two of three. 4.11m plus fix. Just to make sure you can see exactly what i am doing here is an mspaint (read AWESOME !) version  .. 
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My il2 page Seelowe Campaign Cliffs of Dover page CloD My character somehow got all twisted up. I was playing the mission where you have to infiltrate the Golden Glow Estate and do multiple things. When I was out burning beehives and fighting I just eventually ran away to view my success from a distance. I first noticed it when I squated down on a tree trunk. Coot..the squatter../simHQ/2011
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#3512315 - 02/05/12 07:27 PM
Re: JU88 kamikaze , FMB
[Re: Ajay]
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Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 2084
Loc: Passaic County, NJ USA
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Can you please post the mission so we take take a look at it? The contents of the mis file is enough.
I understand that you may want the bombers to attack YOUR way but be aware that this may not be possible. The AI is usually programmed to attack in a certain manner and sometimes there is not much you can do about that.
Another thought is that the Ju-88 is programmed to attack as a dive-bomber. Have you considered using it in that fashion?
Aviar
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#3512766 - 02/06/12 09:51 AM
Re: JU88 kamikaze , FMB
[Re: Ajay]
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Senior Member
Registered: 02/06/00
Posts: 3725
Loc: WA, United States
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Hi, Ajay. Here's my mission I did real quick. 400m is not nearly enough for their bomb profile. If you use SET, they will dive if they have altitude. If they don't have altitude, then the target should not be ships. If you don't use SET, you're using a carpet-bombing (Level bombing) profile. Play as a Single Mission, and use external view (CTRL + F2) to switch between the AI JU88 and the ship. I'd move the waypoint closer to the target. Keep using SET on the GAttack waypoint. JU88s need a lot of vertical space, otherwise, they will change their profile to more of what you're seeing. My flight is 3000m. Also, the waypoint directly following the GAttack should point the opposite direction from whence they came, since they roll over and pull. 
[MAIN]
MAP Crimea/load.ini
TIME 12.0
CloudType 0
CloudHeight 1000.0
army 1
playerNum 0
[SEASON]
Year 1940
Month 6
Day 15
[WEATHER]
WindDirection 0.0
WindSpeed 0.0
Gust 0
Turbulence 0
[MDS]
MDS_Radar_SetRadarToAdvanceMode 0
MDS_Radar_RefreshInterval 0
MDS_Radar_DisableVectoring 0
MDS_Radar_EnableTowerCommunications 1
MDS_Radar_ShipsAsRadar 0
MDS_Radar_ShipRadar_MaxRange 100
MDS_Radar_ShipRadar_MinHeight 100
MDS_Radar_ShipRadar_MaxHeight 5000
MDS_Radar_ShipSmallRadar_MaxRange 25
MDS_Radar_ShipSmallRadar_MinHeight 0
MDS_Radar_ShipSmallRadar_MaxHeight 2000
MDS_Radar_ScoutsAsRadar 0
MDS_Radar_ScoutRadar_MaxRange 2
MDS_Radar_ScoutRadar_DeltaHeight 1500
MDS_Radar_HideUnpopulatedAirstripsFromMinimap 0
MDS_Radar_ScoutGroundObjects_Alpha 5
MDS_Radar_ScoutCompleteRecon 0
MDS_Misc_DisableAIRadioChatter 0
MDS_Misc_DespawnAIPlanesAfterLanding 1
MDS_Misc_HidePlayersCountOnHomeBase 0
MDS_Misc_BombsCat1_CratersVisibilityMultiplier 1.0
MDS_Misc_BombsCat2_CratersVisibilityMultiplier 1.0
MDS_Misc_BombsCat3_CratersVisibilityMultiplier 1.0
[RespawnTime]
Bigship 1800
Ship 1800
Aeroanchored 1800
Artillery 1800
Searchlight 1800
[Wing]
g0100
[g0100]
Planes 1
OnlyAI 1
Skill 2
skin0 Ju88A4_mediteran_wellen.bmp
Class air.JU_88A4
Fuel 50
weapons 2xSC500
[g0100_Way]
NORMFLY 204278.90 99163.33 3000.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 204131.50 83022.83 3000.00 300.00 &0
GATTACK 204094.65 79337.78 3000.00 300.00 0_Static 0 &0
NORMFLY 205837.28 87896.48 1000.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 205787.28 99103.76 1500.00 300.00 &0
[NStationary]
0_Static ships.Ship$Destroyer_USSR_Type7 1 204083.10 78574.87 645.00 0.0 0 0 10.0
[Buildings]
[StaticCamera]
203869 78608 100 0
[Bridge]
[House]
Edited by Tolwyn (02/06/12 09:55 AM)
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#3512878 - 02/06/12 12:33 PM
Re: JU88 kamikaze , FMB
[Re: Tolwyn]
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Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 2084
Loc: Passaic County, NJ USA
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Tolwyn,
I looked at your mission and the Ju-88 attacks as a dive bomber. That's exactly one option I mentioned in my first post. It seems to be a logical solution. However, that's up to Ajay, as his preference may be a level bombing run, as his original mission describes.
Aviar
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#3513046 - 02/06/12 03:51 PM
Re: JU88 kamikaze , FMB
[Re: Ajay]
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Reverse engineered CloD simmer
Veteran
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 14662
Loc: Brisbane OZ
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Yeh ok, i was trying to get them to attack in a low skip bombing fashion so i am guessing the 88 cannot perform this ? Boo Will have to trade it out for a 110 , if they can work in that way. The mission requires a low attack profile. Im pretty sure i came across this when i originally made the mission many years ago as when i first opened the mission in the fmb recently my 88s were at 2800m in carpet bomb mode. Thanks for jogging my memory on the rollover and pull style to Tolywn, i had forgotten that. Going to take a while to remember everything i used to know about the planes and styles of attack in the FMB with FB. cheers guys
_________________________
My il2 page Seelowe Campaign Cliffs of Dover page CloD My character somehow got all twisted up. I was playing the mission where you have to infiltrate the Golden Glow Estate and do multiple things. When I was out burning beehives and fighting I just eventually ran away to view my success from a distance. I first noticed it when I squated down on a tree trunk. Coot..the squatter../simHQ/2011
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#3513212 - 02/06/12 07:25 PM
Re: JU88 kamikaze , FMB
[Re: Ajay]
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Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 2084
Loc: Passaic County, NJ USA
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The AI cannot perform a true skip-bombing delivery. Even if you could manipulate them to release their bombs correctly, there is no bomb delay for the AI, so they would end up blowing themselves up every time.
This would be a great feature to have at our disposal. Maybe in the future....who knows?
Aviar
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#3513217 - 02/06/12 07:29 PM
Re: JU88 kamikaze , FMB
[Re: Ajay]
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Reverse engineered CloD simmer
Veteran
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 14662
Loc: Brisbane OZ
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So basically we have dive bomb and level bomb. I suppose if i set the gattack without a set option at my specific height and have the 88s going fast enough so as to escape the blast i might get close to what i want.
_________________________
My il2 page Seelowe Campaign Cliffs of Dover page CloD My character somehow got all twisted up. I was playing the mission where you have to infiltrate the Golden Glow Estate and do multiple things. When I was out burning beehives and fighting I just eventually ran away to view my success from a distance. I first noticed it when I squated down on a tree trunk. Coot..the squatter../simHQ/2011
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#3513276 - 02/06/12 09:49 PM
Re: JU88 kamikaze , FMB
[Re: Ajay]
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Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 2084
Loc: Passaic County, NJ USA
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So basically we have dive bomb and level bomb. I suppose if i set the gattack without a set option at my specific height and have the 88s going fast enough so as to escape the blast i might get close to what i want. Not really...for several reasons. As I mentioned earlier, the AI are generally programmed to attack a certain way. When their attack algorithm takes over, your settings (altitude, speed) are basically ignored. You can try and influence their attack pattern to a certain extent by careful placement of waypoints, but the results are usually inconsistent and many times just plain wrong. For instance, you couldn't set the speed for the 88's as fast as you need because they simply can't go that fast. Also, the AI would want to take over and slow down to it's programmed attack speed. (Haven't you noticed how bombers will slow down during their final bombing run?) I suppose if you used the smallest bombs possible, you could afford to have the bombers get to a lower release point. However, then you need to consider the amount of damage they would inflict. Aviar
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#3513797 - 02/07/12 02:18 PM
Re: JU88 kamikaze , FMB
[Re: Ajay]
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Reverse engineered CloD simmer
Veteran
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 14662
Loc: Brisbane OZ
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I ended up stacking them from 150 to 400 m at 350kmh for the gattack leg, sometimes they hit and sometimes they dont, importance is not on hitting so much, but a fast run in and out of the target area at a low height with a salvo of bombs being released at least close to the target.This they did and maintained their heights, so happy with that.Did another test with dive bombing from 3000 and 2500, same deal, sometimes they hit and sometimes not. That was on moving ships though so a harder target.
I remember the ai used to hit the target nearly every time with static ships so maybe something has changed regards ai bombing accuracy since 4.09 ? That is a lot better though as the accuracy should not be as good as it used to be. I did not check the properties though either, maybe i have them set on rookie.
cheers
_________________________
My il2 page Seelowe Campaign Cliffs of Dover page CloD My character somehow got all twisted up. I was playing the mission where you have to infiltrate the Golden Glow Estate and do multiple things. When I was out burning beehives and fighting I just eventually ran away to view my success from a distance. I first noticed it when I squated down on a tree trunk. Coot..the squatter../simHQ/2011
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#3513819 - 02/07/12 02:51 PM
Re: JU88 kamikaze , FMB
[Re: Ajay]
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Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 2084
Loc: Passaic County, NJ USA
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I believe that collateral damage is now included in 4.11, so those near-misses can actually damage a ship. So, it really pays to use bigger bombs in 4.11.
Aviar
_________________________
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500
Intel DP43TF Motherboard
3GB DDR2-800 PC6400 Dual
NVIDIA GTX 260 - 896MB
Creative X-Fi
Logitech X-530 5.1 Speakers
24" Acer LCD - P241W
Logitech G15 Gaming Keyboard
CH FighterStick-Pro Throttle-Pro Pedals
TM Tacticalboard
GoFlight GF-T8 Module
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#3513995 - 02/07/12 08:28 PM
Re: JU88 kamikaze , FMB
[Re: Ajay]
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Reverse engineered CloD simmer
Veteran
Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 14662
Loc: Brisbane OZ
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Thanks for the tip Aviar
_________________________
My il2 page Seelowe Campaign Cliffs of Dover page CloD My character somehow got all twisted up. I was playing the mission where you have to infiltrate the Golden Glow Estate and do multiple things. When I was out burning beehives and fighting I just eventually ran away to view my success from a distance. I first noticed it when I squated down on a tree trunk. Coot..the squatter../simHQ/2011
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