Forums » Air Combat & Civil Aviation » Falcon 4.0 » Departure climb angles and speeds


Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
Hop to:
#3477861 - 12/20/11 12:23 PM Departure climb angles and speeds
Jinro Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/11
Posts: 241
I've been looking for documentation regarding the climb angle and speed of departure after takeoff, but my Google search netted dead sites and every single link that had the information I wanted was "404 not found".

I know that TO speed is generally around the 150kts mark. A long time ago I read that departure speed is somewhere around the 350kts mark. What about angle of climb? 10 degrees? 15?

Top
#3477875 - 12/20/11 12:53 PM Re: Departure climb angles and speeds [Re: Jinro]
HomeFries Offline
F22 Air Dominance Project
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 1083
A lot of what you ask is based on the loadout of the aircraft. A heavily loaded aircraft will more likely have to rotate at 180 versus 150. Likewise, loadout dictates climbout attitude as well, as a lightly loaded plane will be able to make a more aggressive climb. Similarly, a heavily loaded aircraft will need a higher angle of attack in order to maintain altitude than a lighter loaded aircraft, and this applies even moreso in a climb. You need to balance the AoA you can maintain with your Flight Path Marker staying above the horizon (indicating a climb).

Your best bet is to use WDP. If you put in an accurate loadout, it will give you rotation and climb speeds. From there you can set your AoA to match airspeed, then select autopilot attitude mode.
_________________________
-Home Fries
XBL: The Mad Gonzo

The average Naval Aviator, despite the sometimes swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy, and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.


Top
#3478061 - 12/20/11 04:57 PM Re: Departure climb angles and speeds [Re: Jinro]
Jinro Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/11
Posts: 241
Surely there's a standard degree of climb for you to put you're velocity vector on, no? I understand that aircraft weight will have an effect on AoA, but a 10 degree climb is still a 10 degree climb no matter what your AoA is. My question is more specifically on the degree of climb, not the AoA.

Top
#3478326 - 12/21/11 04:36 AM Re: Departure climb angles and speeds [Re: Jinro]
NoCarrier Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/15/06
Posts: 87
Originally Posted By: Jinro
I know that TO speed is generally around the 150kts mark. A long time ago I read that departure speed is somewhere around the 350kts mark. What about angle of climb? 10 degrees? 15?

There are some climb/optimum cruise tables in the main checklist (\Docs\Checklists & Cockpit Diagrams\F-16 Checklists\Main Checklists.PDF) that will probably be of interest to you. They state that the best rate of climb Vy is about 420–440 knots IAS for all altitudes and configurations. I haven't tested their accuracy.


Edited by NoCarrier (12/21/11 04:37 AM)

Top
#3478334 - 12/21/11 04:50 AM Re: Departure climb angles and speeds [Re: Jinro]
hansundfranz Offline
Member

Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 812
Loc: Germany
From experience: Fuel efficient climb at around 320 to 350 knts indicated. Steeper down low ,shallow up high. Use Buster (full military). As lead for humans pull the power back a litte so you wingies have some excess power without using Afterburners

NEVER ever let the speed drop below 300 knts. The F16 does not like that.

Best energy gain at full ab mach 0.9 below 30k ft andf 550 knts idicated above 30k ft (supersonic path)

Check Shaw the appendix

Top
#3478552 - 12/21/11 10:03 AM Re: Departure climb angles and speeds [Re: hansundfranz]
cane Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: hansundfranz
From experience: Fuel efficient climb at around 320 to 350 knts indicated. Steeper down low ,shallow up high. Use Buster (full military). As lead for humans pull the power back a litte so you wingies have some excess power without using Afterburners

NEVER ever let the speed drop below 300 knts. The F16 does not like that.


I agree. I'll set my power a little lower than buster so my wingmen can catch up, and I will adjust my pitch to maintain 330 knots. Definitely never let your airspeed get lower than 300 when you are loaded as all you do is create a lot of drag. More than 4-5 degrees of AOA is slow and inefficient.

Top
#3479599 - 12/22/11 06:56 PM Re: Departure climb angles and speeds [Re: Jinro]
VanUSN Offline
Member

Registered: 11/21/06
Posts: 125
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Jinro
Surely there's a standard degree of climb for you to put you're velocity vector on, no? I understand that aircraft weight will have an effect on AoA, but a 10 degree climb is still a 10 degree climb no matter what your AoA is. My question is more specifically on the degree of climb, not the AoA.


You are surely mistaken. You might set a pitch range (i.e. 10-15 degrees) at rotation and maintain that to a certain speed so pilots don't get too crazy with their initial climb and tailstrike or stall. That is pitch angle by the way, not AOA or putting your velocity vector at a certain angle, it's putting the lateral axis (nose) at that angle. The specific angle depends what aircraft you're flying, configuration, how quickly you want to get away from the ground, etc. After that you fly a climb airspeed and set your pitch to attain that airspeed. There may be gouge numbers for pitch attitude that correspond to the climb schedule airspeed, but you don't set a pitch angle and just fly whatever speed it gives you; you fly an airspeed and adjust your pitch to maintain it.
_________________________
Fly EP-3E___|___
__@__@__(_ _)__@__@__

Top
#3508309 - 01/31/12 03:38 PM Re: Departure climb angles and speeds [Re: Jinro]
Jinro Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/11
Posts: 241
So if there is no standard speed/angle of departure, how the hell is your wingman supposed to be able to catch up to you without telling him exactly what angle your climbing and exactly what speed your going?

Top
#3508499 - 01/31/12 09:53 PM Re: Departure climb angles and speeds [Re: Jinro]
cane Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Louisiana
Easy. He can use a combination of his HSD, radar, and eyes. But, as a wingman, it is very helpful if the lead jet communicates his departure profile and any necessary changes made to the profile while in flight. It is very easy to say "I'm setting power at 95% and adjusting pitch for 330kts." Done

Top
#3508506 - 01/31/12 10:29 PM Re: Departure climb angles and speeds [Re: Jinro]
EinsteinEP Offline
Air Combat & General Aviation Editor
Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 1790
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Or lead and wingman brief the climbout procedure before takeoff and practice the same procedure every time, then there's no need to yap about heading, altitude, speed, etc. In fingertip, if lead makes only smooth attitude and power changes, #2 should be able to stay in formation without being notified of every change. A quiet formation is a good one.

Lead to Wingman: "The only thing I want to hear from you is '2', and 'Lead, you're on fire'."
_________________________
Shoot to Kill.
Play to Have Fun.
SimHQ's Forum Use Agreement

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
Hop to:


Forum Use Agreement | Privacy Statement | SimHQ Staff
Copyright 1997-2012, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.