Forums » Air Combat & Civil Aviation » IL-2 Sturmovik: FB, AEP, PF » Yo-yo cruising


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#3507801 - 01/31/12 03:23 AM Yo-yo cruising
Greybeard Offline
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Registered: 05/12/04
Posts: 1071
Loc: Italy
I can't understand why AI goes in 4.11 up and down during cruise to and from target. Manual explains that now AI has no "all around radar-like vision" so must roll every now and then to get situational awareness. Well, perhaps arguable (shouldn't they get SA from mates - visually covering each other - and ground control?) but understandable. But why repeatedly climbing and diving?
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#3507816 - 01/31/12 04:32 AM Re: Yo-yo cruising [Re: Greybeard]
Maj_Alvega Online   tunes
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Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 824
Loc: Portugal
Perhaps some kind of energy management , i usually do that to avoid overshooting wink but if it does that while just cruising it is weird!

Cheers
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#3508522 - 01/31/12 11:38 PM Re: Yo-yo cruising [Re: Greybeard]
Fishingnut Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 592
Loc: Good ole' U. S. of A.
I agree and it ruins things for me as I like to fly in nice steady formation like they did in real life. Some of the stupid stuff that TD comes up with is crazy and their excuses odd. They talk about increasing 'realism' by giving us a tougher overheating ( which nobody asked for, BTW ) and then they throw in dumb stuff that is far from realistic like constant jostling around in formation cruise flight. But then again I've never been much of a Daidalos fanboi. They don't go by what people in the community at large want or ask for, they just throw in what they want or see fit to add. An then get all indignant, arrogant and insulting if anyone dares criticize their patches!! They just don't get it and exemplify bad attitude.

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#3508543 - 02/01/12 12:16 AM Re: Yo-yo cruising [Re: Greybeard]
tagTaken2 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/06/06
Posts: 1000
Loc: Gone.
Why are you complaining about free patches for a product that official support of finished some time ago?

Don't like it? Don't install it.

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#3508607 - 02/01/12 04:10 AM Re: Yo-yo cruising [Re: Greybeard]
Neal Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 1635
How much up and down are they flying? For one, it's not so easy to hold alt within +/- 50 ft over distance IRL even with electric fingertip trim. That much said, the AI might not be having an easy time with a very small change.

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#3508611 - 02/01/12 04:21 AM Re: Yo-yo cruising [Re: Fishingnut]
Greybeard Offline
Member

Registered: 05/12/04
Posts: 1071
Loc: Italy
TD does it for free and I agree they have right to choose what they prefer to improve. The only rule to observe, I believe, is "must be historical". I mean, since we want to have fun reenacting aerial warfare, it makes no sense everything that didn't happen or couldn't happen. Historical documents and law of physics are the sole means to get the scope; tales and legends do not bring anywhere. Today, there's still who think interviewing a WWII pilot can give proof of how it was or what really happened: false! Witnesses had a very limited and personal point of view. Try to ask a soldier who spent his time in a bunker how "really" evolved a famous battle: I think he know almost nothing. Pilots are neither designer nor engineer, just driver (with all respect for them), if you want accurately model how worked Kommandogerat you can't ask a surviving FW pilot.

So, are there official documents stating that "yo-yo" was actually performed (pilot's manual, training book, flight reports)?

S!
GB
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Ardisco, colpisco, meninfischio ("I dare, hit and do not care about it!" - Written on a SM 79 "Sparviero" during Spain civil war)

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#3508616 - 02/01/12 04:29 AM Re: Yo-yo cruising [Re: Neal]
Greybeard Offline
Member

Registered: 05/12/04
Posts: 1071
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: Neal
How much up and down are they flying?


I didn't measure it, but it's much more than 50 feet.

GB
_________________________
Ardisco, colpisco, meninfischio ("I dare, hit and do not care about it!" - Written on a SM 79 "Sparviero" during Spain civil war)

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#3509004 - 02/01/12 02:06 PM Re: Yo-yo cruising [Re: Greybeard]
Neal Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 1635
There is also how long the porpoising takes. I spent literally hours trying to keep a plane level within 50 ft at about 180 IAS with a whole cycle taking about 30 seconds or so. That and keeping heading was all I did. I certainly wasn't scanning the sky around me for enemy planes. From inside you'd need to watch the alt to know more than a hint it was porpoising.

I have old camera footage of planes from planes and sometimes there's not much relative vertical movement and sometimes there is. That doesn't mean that both were not porpoising at the same rate or close.

Oh, the official term is phugoids --
http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/aoastab.html#sec-phugoid

Add:
Maybe they set the AI to do this on purpose. Flying straight and level makes any plane an easy target.



Edited by Neal (02/01/12 02:08 PM)

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#3509022 - 02/01/12 02:39 PM Re: Yo-yo cruising [Re: Greybeard]
EJGr.Ost_Caspar Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 397
Loc: Germany
AI is still not perfect, we stated that already a few times. We just made a first big step and it will be polished further.
So if you recognise something odd, then pls doublecheck it, report it and preferibly support it with a track or so.
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Caspar

'46 - Supporter of the idea!
www.rrgstudios.com

M.o.T.D.3D-section.


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#3509280 - 02/02/12 02:10 AM Re: Yo-yo cruising [Re: EJGr.Ost_Caspar]
Greybeard Offline
Member

Registered: 05/12/04
Posts: 1071
Loc: Italy
Thanks Caspar.

GB
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Ardisco, colpisco, meninfischio ("I dare, hit and do not care about it!" - Written on a SM 79 "Sparviero" during Spain civil war)

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