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#3506277 - 01/29/12 08:07 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 123
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If I understand right:
this P Instrument in SA-3B is not for range boresight indication,
as it could be understand in Page-12 of the SA-3B_English manual, but it's for the Course Parameters
I check the manual again, this instrument is mentioned only when we want to use or lock range boresight,
and in Page-37 it's not clear if this manual told about range or Course Parameters,
will be happy if any one can confirm that, and have more info about this Course Parameters.
Ashampoo Snap really great ! thank's max2012!
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#3506281 - 01/29/12 08:16 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 123
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to JWNoctis:
I check it, it say only :
"P KM – The Course Parameter shows how far to either side of the site the target will pass.
If the target flies directly towards us, the P=0km."
no more!
Edited by wasfa (01/29/12 08:16 AM)
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#3506297 - 01/29/12 08:42 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: peters]
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Member
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 123
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P instrument works only on Locking track?
YES , in RS , AS or ASAP
I have noticed that P Instrument (range boresight) work
----- Thats NOT the range boresight
----- It is the distance of thge target if it fly his course away from you .
------ P = 0 Km means: the target will hit you , it is of course to you.
----- P=12 Km. The target will flown awy with distance at 12 Km frpm you
is a Course Parameters not a range borsight indicator! that explain all of the rest !  this thing should be clearly indicated in the manual .  can we said " it's minimum distance of the target's trajectory to our site,"? .  forgive me if I ask a lot..  , but I'm newbie, what mean RS, AS or ASAP? thank's for the link (unfortunately I can't read Dutch) 
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#3506313 - 01/29/12 09:11 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: max2012]
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Member
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 123
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Only 2 Screen mode range of 40 and 80 km.
No there is no 20 km.
The same is true in the Dvina, and Volkhov.
Volkhov 150/75 km.
Dvina 110/55 km.
Neva 80/40 km.
The height of the screen display of 8.5 is not exactly what I would say could be 8.2 km.
no body said 20Km scale range mode exist for the I2 scope, but when I have see this scale of 20Km and think it's a range borsight indicators, in my mind, I was thinking it was a maximum destruction zone for the missile ... that's why the scale have only 20Km!  another thing, the same Instrument in Volhov have 70Km scale, and in Dvina have 50Km, always the maximum missile destruction zone !
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#3506335 - 01/29/12 09:42 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 3352
Loc: Portugal
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But I think that I have a bug to report regarding the SA-5:
-> The SA-5 fuse only seems to work when the missile (SA-5) passes VERY NEAR to the target. For example: I never managed to get a target detonation at distances more than 12 meters (normally I get target detonations at distances of 4-6 meters with the SA-5). This seems very odd since I can get target detonations at more than 100 meters with the SA-2 and even with the SA-3. So this means that getting a kill with the SA-5 is and will be much harder than getting a kill with the SA-2 since with the SA-5 in order to get a kill the missile must almost hit the target "by impact" which again is very odd since the SA-5 is supposed to be a much more advanced missile than the SA-2.Vega warhead size is nearly identical to the Volhov. Semi Active Guidance of the Vega is much more accurate, than the Command Guidance of the Volhov. Most of the WarPact countries launched only few Vega missiles ever (due to the prohibitive cost), but the KUB (SA-6) missile that use similar guidance, often scored direct hits on the targets, at the firing ranges.  Yes I understand that the SA-5 is much more precise than the SA-2 and SA-3 (or other older SAMs) but that's not my point here. My point is that the SA-5 doesn't seem to kill "by proximity" - The SA-5 either hit the target at a very, very close distances (less than 12 meters, almost "by impact") OR completly misses the target! There's seems to be NO "middle ground" where the missile passes relatively near the target (like for example 50 meters) and detonates. I hope this explains what I meant with my previous post... And just to give an example: - In the SA-5 Cold War scenario (1985 - Op. Giant Reach) I fired 5 (FIVE) SA-5 missiles in "Home on Jam" mode against a SR-71 (which was jamming) and all of them passed thru the SR-71 and none of those 5 missiles detonated (all missed - despite passing thru and most likely near the target).
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#3506347 - 01/29/12 10:18 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: ricnunes]
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Junior Member
Registered: 05/04/11
Posts: 40
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Do note that the currently available targets for Vega are either mach 3 SR-71's booming above FL600, or target drones at a firing range. None of them do any specific maneuver against incoming missiles, unlike those F-4s above Hanoi. As far as I can tell from my Falcon 4.0 experience, those maneuvers can make a big difference on miss distance. Another good reason to wait for those Libya scenarios! 
Edited by JWNoctis (01/29/12 10:19 AM)
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#3506466 - 01/29/12 01:20 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: ricnunes]
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Member
Registered: 10/16/99
Posts: 125
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But I think that I have a bug to report regarding the SA-5:
-> The SA-5 fuse only seems to work when the missile (SA-5) passes VERY NEAR to the target. For example: I never managed to get a target detonation at distances more than 12 meters (normally I get target detonations at distances of 4-6 meters with the SA-5). This seems very odd since I can get target detonations at more than 100 meters with the SA-2 and even with the SA-3. So this means that getting a kill with the SA-5 is and will be much harder than getting a kill with the SA-2 since with the SA-5 in order to get a kill the missile must almost hit the target "by impact" which again is very odd since the SA-5 is supposed to be a much more advanced missile than the SA-2.Vega warhead size is nearly identical to the Volhov. Semi Active Guidance of the Vega is much more accurate, than the Command Guidance of the Volhov. Most of the WarPact countries launched only few Vega missiles ever (due to the prohibitive cost), but the KUB (SA-6) missile that use similar guidance, often scored direct hits on the targets, at the firing ranges. Yes I understand that the SA-5 is much more precise than the SA-2 and SA-3 (or other older SAMs) but that's not my point here. My point is that the SA-5 doesn't seem to kill "by proximity" - The SA-5 either hit the target at a very, very close distances (less than 12 meters, almost "by impact") OR completly misses the target! There's seems to be NO "middle ground" where the missile passes relatively near the target (like for example 50 meters) and detonates. I hope this explains what I meant with my previous post... And just to give an example: - In the SA-5 Cold War scenario (1985 - Op. Giant Reach) I fired 5 (FIVE) SA-5 missiles in "Home on Jam" mode against a SR-71 (which was jamming) and all of them passed thru the SR-71 and none of those 5 missiles detonated (all missed - despite passing thru and most likely near the target). Could this be due to jamming of the proximity fuse? In Vietnam the U.S managed to figure out how to jam the SA-2s proximity fuse.
_________________________
*********I have quite a large collection of Flight, Weapon Systems, Tactical & Supplementary Aircraft Manuals for Jets, Helicopters & some Props, spanning the Vietnam era to present. If you're interested in trading Flight Manuals, mainly for modern military aircraft, send me a PM.*********
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#3506513 - 01/29/12 02:34 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: wasfa]
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Member
Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 423
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Well, I do not know where you found the 20 km, I do not have.
80 and 40 km-scale switch, no extra 20km.
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#3506575 - 01/29/12 04:00 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1710
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3506581 - 01/29/12 04:03 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: JWNoctis]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 3352
Loc: Portugal
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Do note that the currently available targets for Vega are either mach 3 SR-71's booming above FL600, or target drones at a firing range. None of them do any specific maneuver against incoming missiles, unlike those F-4s above Hanoi. As far as I can tell from my Falcon 4.0 experience, those maneuvers can make a big difference on miss distance. Another good reason to wait for those Libya scenarios! This still doesn't justify the fact that with the SA-5 you either hit the target at very close ranges (so far the highest detonation range that I experienced was 18 meters) OR you completly miss the target - there's NO "middle term" like a 50 or 100 meter (or even longer) detonation like happens with the other SAM systems (SA-2 and SA-3 for example) and this happens either when firing against a SR-71 or against target drones in the firing range (and both with or without jamming). I would expect that at least when shooting drones in the firing range that some longer distance detonations (again with values like 50 to 100 meters or even more) would be experienced but I haven't experienced NONE and believe me I've been shooting a lot with the SA-5 latelly (specially in the firing range).
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