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#3503137 - 01/25/12 05:40 AM
AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/13/99
Posts: 4748
Loc: Ohio USA
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I sometimes post that there is no "visible" difference between top systems (AMD vs Intel) -- measurable yes -- visible no. AMD ran a "blind" side by side test of AMD and Intel powered systems. A cheap pair of systems and an enthusiast pair. AMD easily won in the cheap test because of its top notch "on the CPU" graphics -- hard to beat AMD at the low end. Surprisingly, AMD also won the "enthusiast" system comparison. Most expected that folks would say they "saw" no difference with their "eyes". This confirms what I've been saying. AMD is a cost effective product -- and, most folks won't "see" the difference vs Intel ( measure yes, see no). AMD vs Intel "Blind" Tests BTW, "confirms" doesn't mean "proves". The tests were setup by AMD 
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#3503206 - 01/25/12 07:28 AM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Allen]
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Skate Zilla HD Studios
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Registered: 11/24/04
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Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
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two hot fixes and 1 bios feature later, the FX cpus start to catch up with the i5s in windows applications.
i'd like to see how they do with Compiling outside of Windows 7.......
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#3503452 - 01/25/12 01:06 PM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Allen]
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Senior Member
Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 2969
Loc: Seattle,USA
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Interesting test, I wonder if it was at stock speeds or using overclock potential on both systems?
I am not biased on AMD-vs-Intel and have owned both in the past, I mainly care about bang for the buck with overclock potential for gaming (FSX and iRacing mainly) and during the last 3 upgrades Intel won out for me mainly on how easy it was to overclock on air cooler and get a big performance improvement without special watercooling and with fairly well known settings, based on forums I frequent for FSX, iRacing, SimHQ and Overclock.net.
My last 3 CPUs: c2d e8500 default 2.66 ghz @ 4ghz OC = 50% i7-920 default 2.66ghz @ 4.2ghz OC = 55% i5-2500k default 3.3ghz @ 4.8ghz OC = 46%
It seemed like each time I looked at forums for info on running the top end AMD it was not as easy to OC it out without special cooling and unlock of cores etc while Intel seems to release the CPUs with lots of OC potential on purpose? Is it indeed similar on AMD?
Asking so I will know in the future.
Edited by kludger (01/25/12 01:07 PM)
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#3503567 - 01/25/12 03:09 PM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Allen]
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/13/99
Posts: 4748
Loc: Ohio USA
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AMD has stressed "easy overclock" for many years now -- their "Black Edition" CPUs with "unlocked" cores and very easy OC on air just by changing the multiplier. For example, my three (in the house) 6 core Phenom II X6 OC on air to 4.0GHz -- simply by changing the multiplier in BIOS and bumping the volts very slightly (actually don't seem to need the volts but I did it anyway for stability). My water cooling on one system made things cooler, but did not affect my OCs. Fanatics seem to get 4.2GHz by playing with several other factors.
Intel only recently made "unlocked" multipliers available. One actually had to know something to OC Intel.
It is true that the top Intel CPU when OC is faster than the OC AMD CPUs in testing. I argue that one could not actually "see" a difference in a game or most applications. Intel is particularly good in video editing applications -- you would see a difference core for core. However, 8 core Bulldozer can fight a good fight vs a 4 core Intel CPU in an advanced multi-threaded application at the same or lower cost.
The current Bulldozer series (the FX series) is said to have been further optimized for an easy OC. Said to give 4.5GHz on air and around 5GHz on water with a simple multiplier change and voltage bump (a couple minutes in BIOS plus a test using Prime95). AMD also produces an "overclocking utility" that one can use to OC while in Windows (not touching the BIOS). The OC utility allows changing and monitoring of just about everything in the CPU, motherboard, RAM. But, I don't use it as a couple minutes in BIOS does the job.
Conclusion: Both Intel and AMD CPUs are easy to OC these days -- with air or with water.
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#3503578 - 01/25/12 03:14 PM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Allen]
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Senior Member
Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 2969
Loc: Seattle,USA
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Wow interesting, it is weird that on most of the hardcore sim forums (iRacing/AVSIM etc) system discussions i5-2500k/2600k is all the rage and I have not seen any of the enthusiasts mention AMD systems, then again I would consider both FSX and iRacing very CPU dependent and where every little difference in OC capability is felt.
Will keep it in mind for the future.
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#3504750 - 01/27/12 07:41 AM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Allen]
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Entil'zha
Big Kahuna
Registered: 02/15/00
Posts: 33095
Loc: Space Coast, USA
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For a second I thought this thread said "taste tests" and I was wondering WTF?!?!?
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#3504769 - 01/27/12 08:00 AM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Allen]
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Registered: 11/23/05
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Loc: Edgewood TX
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I wish AMD were totally equal to Intel then the prices would go down.
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#3504793 - 01/27/12 08:28 AM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Allen]
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Skate Zilla HD Studios
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Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 8120
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
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TBH, right now I see the 8 Core FX CPUs as 4 Cores. (Benchmark wise)
As each pair of cores share resources, in their respective modules,
windows dont see them as 8 cores (workload wise), windows tries to run/schedule the workload like it was a 4 core, 8 thread CPU and it just screws up the Benchmark scores.
Edited by SkateZilla (01/27/12 08:31 AM)
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#3504828 - 01/27/12 09:10 AM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Allen]
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Member
Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 552
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When comparing OC'd Intel vs. OC'd AMD, it seems like Intel still seems to have the edge, especially for gaming, and psrticularly when the FX-8150 retails ~270 and the i5 retails ~240 atm. I fondly remember my AMD 1700+, but my last two builds have been Intel E8400 and now i5 2500k... I wish AMD would get back into competing on performance but it really seems like they've given up on the high end. from here: Bit-Tech "Overclocked Performance Analysis While our overclocking efforts produced a significant boost for the FX-8150 in every test and application, the two rival Sandy Bridge CPUs also gained masses of performance after their hefty overclocks. While the FX-8150 at least managed to overhaul the Core 2 Duo E670o in the image editing test with a score of 1,077, the 5GHz Core i5-2500K was over twice as fast with a score of 2,228. At 4.818GHz the FX-8150 was faster than a stock speed Core i5-2500K in our video encoding test, but was around 800 points behind that CPU operating at 5GHz. At least the FX-8150 managed to keep ahead of the Core i7-920 when both were overclocked, if only by 65 points. However, the 4.818GHz FX-8150 dropped back to second-last place in the multi-tasking test and overall – the Core i7-920 managed to overhaul its deficiencies in both tests thanks to its 4.04GHz overclock. This left the Core i5-2500K and Core i7-2600K way ahead of the FX-8150, with 2,662 and 2,791 points overall respectively, rather than 1,860. When overclocked, the FX-8150 was on par with the overclocked Core i5-2500K and Core i7-920 in WPrime, a poor result considering AMD’s claims that it’s an 8-core CPU while the Core i5 is quad-core and the i7-920 invents four of its threads thanks to Hyper-Threading. The FX-8150 also failed to overtake the Core i7-2600K in Cinebench R11.5 when both were overclocked, managing just 7.95 points rather than 9.78. Even in the one game that the FX-8150 could run without catastrophic failure and a system re-boot, it was lacking speed with a minimum of 70fps in Arma II. That’s slower than the Core i5-2500K at stock speed (which managed a minimum of 86fps) and only 1fps faster than the Phenom II X6 1100T operating 618MHz slower."
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#3504834 - 01/27/12 09:17 AM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Cold_Gambler]
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Skate Zilla HD Studios
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Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 8120
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
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When comparing OC'd Intel vs. OC'd AMD, it seems like Intel still seems to have the edge, especially for gaming, and psrticularly when the FX-8150 retails ~270 and the i5 retails ~240 atm. I fondly remember my AMD 1700+, but my last two builds have been Intel E8400 and now i5 2500k... I wish AMD would get back into competing on performance but it really seems like they've given up on the high end. from here: Bit-Tech "Overclocked Performance Analysis While our overclocking efforts produced a significant boost for the FX-8150 in every test and application, the two rival Sandy Bridge CPUs also gained masses of performance after their hefty overclocks. While the FX-8150 at least managed to overhaul the Core 2 Duo E670o in the image editing test with a score of 1,077, the 5GHz Core i5-2500K was over twice as fast with a score of 2,228. At 4.818GHz the FX-8150 was faster than a stock speed Core i5-2500K in our video encoding test, but was around 800 points behind that CPU operating at 5GHz. At least the FX-8150 managed to keep ahead of the Core i7-920 when both were overclocked, if only by 65 points. However, the 4.818GHz FX-8150 dropped back to second-last place in the multi-tasking test and overall – the Core i7-920 managed to overhaul its deficiencies in both tests thanks to its 4.04GHz overclock. This left the Core i5-2500K and Core i7-2600K way ahead of the FX-8150, with 2,662 and 2,791 points overall respectively, rather than 1,860. When overclocked, the FX-8150 was on par with the overclocked Core i5-2500K and Core i7-920 in WPrime, a poor result considering AMD’s claims that it’s an 8-core CPU while the Core i5 is quad-core and the i7-920 invents four of its threads thanks to Hyper-Threading. The FX-8150 also failed to overtake the Core i7-2600K in Cinebench R11.5 when both were overclocked, managing just 7.95 points rather than 9.78. Even in the one game that the FX-8150 could run without catastrophic failure and a system re-boot, it was lacking speed with a minimum of 70fps in Arma II. That’s slower than the Core i5-2500K at stock speed (which managed a minimum of 86fps) and only 1fps faster than the Phenom II X6 1100T operating 618MHz slower." Games are becoming less CPU bound and more GPU Bound....
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#3504896 - 01/27/12 10:15 AM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Allen]
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/13/99
Posts: 4748
Loc: Ohio USA
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What Cold_Gambler posted seems about right. Intel is much better at CPU dependent video encoding -- not an accident -- Intel aimed its CPU design in that direction and incorporated new CPU codes for the purpose (AMD is always a generation behind Intel on copying Intel codes into its CPU architectures). Intel is also better clock for clock core for core. Since most games don't take advantage of 6 or 8 cores, one can measure the Intel advantage. Hence, if one writes an article that compares video encoding and core for core at the same clocks, it will be fairly one sided in favor of Intel. If one writes an article on game FPS, the results are much closer -- often nearly identical and rarely far enough apart to "see" the difference. Most games play at 30fps or higher; thus, FPS differences become invisible. Therefore, to argue that AMD is deficient because its MINIMUM speed is 70FPS in ARMA II (faster than most LED monitors can even display as they are limited to 60FPS), is misleading (no one will see the difference). Moreover, as Skatezilla points out, most games are GPU limited (or are not significantly CPU limited). My comments here are always directed towards gaming on a budget. Nonetheless, Intel is measurably faster. People who do significant video editing should pay the price and buy Intel (a fast Intel, not just any Intel). Intel desktop Ivy Bridge is due in April. At 22nm, it should be very strong -- it may make arguing for AMD CPUs on the basis of performance/price pretty difficult -- unless the Intel prices are high 
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#3504989 - 01/27/12 11:32 AM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Allen]
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Senior Member
Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 2969
Loc: Seattle,USA
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Yeah good to keep in mind what sort of gaming you want the CPU for, I spend most of my time in iRacing and FSX both which are very CPU bound and I can detect differences in the smoothness depending on whether I overclock and when I upgraded from e8500 to i7-920 to i5-2500k.
Also while whether framerates above 30FPS are detectable by humans or not is a controversial subject in these types of discussions, I can tell you that in iRacing there is a huge difference in the amount of control/accuracy I have of the car and the resulting laptimes between having framerate <60FPS or 60FPS vsync or > 60 FPS, in FSX or other flight sims the framerate is a bit less critical, but in racing simulations where I need inch perfect accuracy of my corner apex, it is definitely something I feel the difference of.
So overall I agree the Intel -vs- AMD performance discussion really depends on what you need the system to do and even when talking gaming/simming what particular titles you play the most and whether they are CPU mostly bound like FSX/iRacing/Arma2 or take good advantage of the GPU (BF3, DX:HR etc.).
Good discussion, these are interesting times in hardware options, and even if I haven't bought an AMD CPU for a few upgrades I may in the future if they beat Intel for my needs and I still keep a soft spot for them as the underdog and thankful that they keep Intel competing.
Edited by kludger (01/27/12 11:46 AM)
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#3504993 - 01/27/12 11:33 AM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Allen]
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DBS
Member
Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 267
Loc: Croatia, Zagreb
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This is getting desperate on AMD's account. The author of the linked article didn't discover anything new or ground breaking. If one writes an article on game FPS, the results are much closer -- often nearly identical and rarely far enough apart to "see" the difference. Most games play at 30fps or higher; thus, FPS differences become invisible. Therefore, to argue that AMD is deficient because its MINIMUM speed is 70FPS in ARMA II (faster than most LED monitors can even display as they are limited to 60FPS), is misleading (no one will see the difference). Moreover, as Skatezilla points out, most games are GPU limited (or are not significantly CPU limited). My comments here are always directed towards gaming on a budget. Nonetheless, Intel is measurably faster. People who do significant video editing should pay the price and buy Intel (a fast Intel, not just any Intel). Intel desktop Ivy Bridge is due in April. At 22nm, it should be very strong -- it may make arguing for AMD CPUs on the basis of performance/price pretty difficult -- unless the Intel prices are high Well said.
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#3505001 - 01/27/12 11:37 AM
Re: AMD Beats Intel in Blind Tests
[Re: Allen]
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Skate Zilla HD Studios
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Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 8120
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
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TBH I never had an issue with AMDs performance, and I betcha after 2 weeks w/ my FX8120 I'll have it tweaked.
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