OK, so the test-bed terrain is out there for download. We hope you enjoy it. But, we don't want you think that will be the only one. We will continue to support it with patches and bugfixes, but we already have our sights set on something new.

Let me explain what I'd like to see us doing around here for the ThirdWire customer base. We're going to expand our operations to include more terrains, skins and decals for aircraft, and campaigns. We won't be doing too many aircraft as 3DSMax is expensive and the market is pretty saturated.

The easiest and hardest thing to make is a terrain. Easy in the sense that it's cheap, everything you need is either free or very cheap. Hard in the sense that it is time-consuming. Our terrains will be built with two goals in mind.

The first, and you may have noticed this on the Black Sea 2.0 terrain, we want them to be time-period-specific. The effective dates for BS2 start in 1992, precluding previous dates because Ukraine wasn't an independent country until then. But, moreover, we want to focus on specific time periods in air combat, 50s, 60s, etc...

Second, we want them to be as realistically populated with targets and defenses as possible. One of the things that aggravated me about Third Wire is the AI and it's responses to being engaged by ground fire. Another thing was the over-saturation of air defenses to the extent that what you were up against was not only every AAA and SAM emplacement a nation ever bought being concentrated in one little part of their country, but they probably had someone lend them a spare SA-2 site they weren't using. SAM and AAA emplacements will be realistically placed, around things worth defending. The number of them will depend on when you're flying. BS2 doesn't have that many because presumably, you're using the most advanced weaponry available, not the stock stuff.

Now, it also might help to tell you where we're NOT going.

There are two very large, comprehensive mod efforts being undertaken right now, one is Desert Storm and the other is the Korean War. Those projects are being done by large teams of people more experienced than we. You may safely assume we won't be going to either of those places in those time frames. We'd like to do things that haven't been done yet. Noe, that doesn't mean we won't visit those places during another time frame, so feel free to suggest something you think is fun.

So, it might help if I knew not only where you would like to fly, but when you'd like to fly there. We're listening, so fire away!

I'm thinking 3 possibilities:
- a tile covering west Ukraine, Romania, Hungary, Poland, Belarus
- a tile covering part of east China, Japan, part of East Russia.
- an area North of Strait of Hormuz covering parts of Iran, Pakistan, Afganistan

Cool. What time frame you thinking? I really like your Far East idea.

Definitely Iran/Afghanistan 2001+

Don't y'all already have that one, Eric?

Well the thing I like most about the Far East is that one can design an incredible number of scenarios affording great diversity in picking sides. We can have there USA, JAPAN, CHINA, RUSSIA in full force and allied in different configurations. The other thing that I like is that this is valid starting since the Korean War and goes on into the future. I would go for a present-future time frame as China's modern millitary assets are increasing in diversity and flexibility allowing more interesting events. At the same time, a post-Vietnam era is also very inviting.

Yeah... but Iran is not to scale (vastly) so anything closer to reality would be preferable, there's not much work on more modern schemes. Operation Darius was an attempt but it was using an older map. And you can't fly all over Afghanistan, the main focus was more central. I was deployed to the Kunar in 08-09 and like to relive some moments honestly.

A small scale terrain, with many targets setup for helicopter warfare. No major airfields, all small stuff, short runways, lots of trees and hills. You could make a helicopter combat install with no fixed wing aircraft.

Yes I know Thirdwire isn't made for helos but its something different.

I tried the Apache at CombatACE and found it a bit strange. Then I decided to stick with planes in StrikeFighters. Although I admit that a good helo add-on would make me delirious(not very optimistic about that).

+1 for far East. I am personally a fan of the "stock" TW timeframe, 50's to 1980 or so. Has the most available content. I also like the idea of keeping the terrain's target saturation similar to stock.

BTW, great job on BS2. Can't wait to see what comes next.

I assume continuing support/patches will include a planning map with cities/airports just like the TW ones?

Oh, absolutely. Any bugfixes that are needed (and I know people will advise me of them soon if there are any) will be addressed in ongoing support. We are not into abandonware.

I wish I knew how to do those planning maps, though. That is definitely a weak spot.

We have a good Korea/NE China/Vladivostok map already. Ditto with Taiwan.

How about the South China Sea? Include North Vietnam, Hainan, Hong Kong, Manila and the Paracel/Spratley islands (some of which have airfields).

Roughly around here:

http://g.co/maps/tpbwz

Throw in the Chinese carrier and a couple US carriers and you'll have a very interesting theater of operations that, I think, could translate into many eras of jet combat.

We can also go completely fantasy, like another Dhimar-Paran sitation. Cool thing about those is that you can literally make the conflict about anything you like.

South America, Chile/Argentina, (the Beagle Channel conflict) , 70's - 80's
Africa, Rhodesia vs Zambia and Moszambique , ~1975-1980
Africa, South-West Africa/South Africa vs Angola , Border War 1966-89
Africa, Tchad vs Libya , 80's

I like all these, plus the far east, Korean War Era to present...

Fist off... Thanks Pfunk for the new terrain... I have only had a short time with it so far but I'm liking it much!

I'm glad to hear about all the SFers work going on. I like all the Ideas brewing about. I think we should wait and see what the North Atlantic has to offer in terms of changes to the terrain engine.

I would love to see something with a North American Twist to it. I know its fictional. But it would be cool to see a Red Dawn/Homefront type terrain and campaign.

The other thing I would love to see is better Menu and Interface graphics. I was looking at the menu.cat files last eve and I might try to do some work on that myself.

Like these?

http://combatace.com/files/file/10211-in-defence-of-texas-alamo-2010-campaign/

http://combatace.com/files/file/8180-socal-84-red-dawn-red-force-v11/

OK, I admit they need updating to SF2 standard, but that would be easier than starting from scratch. . . ;-)

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff out there, and I'm trying to find something that hasn't been done yet.

So far, I like the idea of an 80s Far East Russia/China/Japan type situation in the early 80s.

What about a Korean environment in the 70s?

Yes!!!... Like those!!!.... updated for sf2 with keeping a 1980's setting. Have to get Canada involved too

like this, perhaps....

http://combatace.com/files/file/12535-midwest-usa-terrain-for-sf2/

or this....

http://combatace.com/files/file/11286-america-southwest-texasmexico-for-sf2/

as to the Far East, Baltika's Kamchatka...

http://combatace.com/files/file/12292-kamchatka-peninsula-v20/

Persian Gulf (Straits of Hormuz), Central America and Eritrea all in the works, even as we speak

wrench
kevin stein

So I suppose everything has been covered... no sense in wasting time. Is anyone working on a GUI overhaul?

Yes. 70's - 80's. What was that series of novels about the F-16 squadron in the ROK???

OK, first off, I apologise to Pfunk for what may have seemed like a bit of a thread hijack - sorry bro, not my intention.

Second, to Hellman, it's not that everything has been covered, it's just that a lot of stuff has been done, and there are a lot of wips in progress. As Pfunk, Wrench, and all the terrain guys know, it takes a lot of time and effort to put a terrain together, and the way terrains work in WoX/SF2 means each terrain is a separate entity, so there is really no point in duplicating effort. On my personal wishlist for SF2 development is a "global layer" style terrain engine akin to the old MSFS/CFS terrain engine, but on the available info for SF2:NA, that seems like a forlorn hope.

On the other hand, given that I spend so much time of my personal gaming time flying/modding/posting about SF2 series, I am a firm supporter of the view that the more guys are producing SF2 mods, and wherever their chosen homepage, the better for the series, and for everyone who flys it. So, despite being a fairly seasoned CA modder, and, a somewhat accidental but enthusiastic contributer to a certain WW2 North Africa total conversion mod for WoX series, I am fully supportive of PFunk's new terrain, and of the way he has chosen to distribute it - including the SimHQ posting requirement - Sorry, Kevin ;-)

So, to answer Pfunk's question posed by this thread, yup, I am very interested in a Russia/China/Japan scenario, and would love to see one done, but bear in mind there is this wip:-

http://combatace.com/topic/46880-kurile-islands-campaign-remember-usnf-97/

See, especially, post #11 in the above thread.

Plus, I think SidDogg has a wip Japan terrain in progress, and Brain32 has mentioned having a hi-res satellite image Japanese tileset on his HDD, pending release. . .

So, as to the way forward, Pfunk, if you want my Japan terrain wip files, as pictured above, you are welcome to them, as realistically I am unlikely to advance that wip very much in the immediate future. . .

Or, go for it man ;-)

A new Dhimar-Paran/fictional map might be cool.

Your map is WAY bigger than what I have in mind, Baltika. I was just going to take Hokkaido, Sakhalin, and a smallish part of eastern Russian coastline. I wanted to narrow up the focus.

But, it also looks like Sid and Brain have that wrapped up.

Hmmm....okay. Lemme think on that a second.

Hmmm, with all the maps already available, why not indeed dig the Dhimar/Paran conflict more, there's vast area of populated more mediterran type climate south of the desert stock SF2 map covers, there were very intense tank battles there back in the late 50s and early 60s, remember? When Paranis invaded Arabeska port and it's neighbouring oil fields in '57, with famous battle of the "Garden of Dhimar" in '61

Here's a few that we've [the UK] been involved in over the years, I like the Borneo,Malaysia or Aden myself....just some thoughts.

http://britains-smallwars.com/main/index1.html

Iran, 79-80 Operation Eagle Claw



Only this time, we succeed...

I'm personally a fan of African small wars (www.acig.org has some excellent resources for the air components of these wars). Plus, the mercenary functions of the game work really well for this region - think Sierra Leone, Liberia, Biafra/Nigeria, Rhodesia, Congo, etc.

Hell yeah... I second that!

How about the Western North Cape? Norway and the UK etc. Soviets take Norway just as the Germans did in WWII. Might be nice to have an Ocean-centric map with North Atlantic's impending release. When messing around with Jane's Fleet Command, that was a favorite chunk of the map to use.

Korean War (Mig Alley) campaign i suppose is the only one i'm really interested in right now.

This idea gets my vote, useful for WW2 and Cold war scenarios