I decided to build a full scale rudder pedal what would match the control stick I am working on.

-The dimensions and travel will be identic to the Bf109G6`s.
-Independent toe brakes
-Gas springs for the realistic force effects.
-Hall sensor for the yaw /high quality pots for the brakes
-Adjustable pedal angle

I have a pair of pedal castings to be used in this project.



Some early design shots:


rudder 1 by csaba.moharos


rudder 2 by csaba.moharos

Nice! You had those castings made for you, or is there someone who had a large run made for him and is selling them by the pair?

Hi,

it was made for me, but maybe he can make more. I will send you his contact in pm.

Thanks for the offer, but it wouldn't be my thing. You might have peeked the interest of others though.

VO101MMaister would you know if its possible to get hold of a KG13 cast?

What did you use to model that? It is BEE YOU TEE FULL

Autodesk Inventor

I use the same method as on the control stick. The only difference is that in this case I am using a gas spring to have a realistic force + damping sensation.

Here is a very early schematic:

You can also incorporate end stops in the cam, but make sure you dimension the bearing arm to be able to take the load. also, how do you account for asymmetry in the cam profile?

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/files/pedals26_193.jpg



Sokol1

Hi Brandano,

thanks for your comment. The end stops will be incorporated into the cam, but I would like to have some kind of an adjustable travel, will see.

The asymmetry is a very good point, thx for the head up! I will have to design the CAM profile to have the same lift of the CAM arm in both direction!

Sokol1,

I know Baur`s work it is very inspiring, but we both use a well known technical solution used in hydraulic steered aircrafts. It is called "the feel and centering unit" what can be seen here:
feel and centering unit

I am currently thinking how to convert my pedals to this sort of mechanism ,pretty simple if you look at what is currently used for centering:

And I want also to try and make something similar to replace the gimbals on my Hotas Cougar. With the difference that I am going to make it all using just hand tools, pencil and paper. Probably I will fail, but at least I'll have fun trying

Brandamo, sample of gimbal made with hand tools - with similar mechanism.

http://avia-sim.ru/forum/files/_01_212.jpg
http://avia-sim.ru/forum/files/_02_897.jpg
http://avia-sim.ru/forum/files/_03_185.jpg

Used in this "stick": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylH5RU07vX0&feature=player_embedded

Sokol1

Very nice design, that double cam is a brilliant idea. My approach is probably not going to be so robust, but perhaps slightly more compact. Most designs place one of the sensors on the inner portion of the gymbal, what I want to do is to have one of the axes on a sliding contact so that both pivots for the sensors can be solidal to the base. This would allow me to add some force feedback mechanics later on, but requires some care to avoid backlash.

Some progress. The pedal I would say is 90% finished. I managed to make a CAM profile which produce a totally linear gas spring compression both ways.


rudder 3 by [/url], on Flickr


[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/22174211@N02/6822869525/]
rudder 4 by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/22174211@N02/][/url], on Flickr


I have to think about the sensoring method. Pots or Hall sensoring. On the main axis it will be hall sensore for sure. On the brakes some good quality pots could do the job as well.

Is there any affordable compact "pot style" hall sensor on the market? I remember some sensors what were offered as an upgrade for TM cougars. They were nice, compact ones. I know it is possible to make some homemade sensors, but I would prefer a ready made one.

They look great! The Cougar upgrade sensors are provided by Cubpilot - Cubpilot's Hangar
I used them in my homebuilt stick and pedals - they seem to be reliable and are very easy to mount. Affordable? depends on your budget, they are certainly more expensive than the DIY. You can email Cubby for details.

9T

Very nice center system!

I think that is more easy use HALL sensor for brakes than pots - these require gear do match movements.
DIY HALL assembly have a small ~30/40 degrees of pratical course, so you easy fit then in brake axis.
You find HALL sensor assembled like pots, like Clarostat HRS100 - not expensive like Cub's ones.

http://www.newark.com/honeywell-s-c-clarostat/hrs100-s-s-a-b-090/hall-effect-sensor/dp/32M7190
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1599703-sensor-hall-effect-rotary-hrs100ssab090.html

Sokol1

Woww these are pricey. I think I will stick to the DIY version.

BTW - The above another option of assembled HALL cost over 3 digit...

Another option, assembled MaRS sensor (theoretically better than the HALL), sold by GVL224 from Ukraine - 10 Euros(15 Euros plus magnets).
http://tinyurl.com/7yfnjsf
http://tinyurl.com/7yfnjsf

Sokol1

Thx Sokol they look very interesting indeed. I get in touch with this guy. I hope he speaks english:)

Only a small update. Everything is coming together. In the last month I have finalized the design and made many modifications. I found and ordered standard parts required for the build, including sensors, dampers, springs, bearings ect...
I am also finished now with all the drawings, and got the workshop who will make the parts.

The main change on the pedal design was that I skip the gas spring as main tensioning element. It has too flat spring characteristic + they are not designed for a high frequency usage. Therefore I put a standard extension spring in, and an additional hidraulic damper cylinder.

I also decided to use a simple steel plate base. It is cheap and it will be very easy to mount into the floor of a cockpit stucture. Later I can attach any mounting fitting to it if necessary. So it is very flexible.

The machining and cutting of the parts will start in June. Hopefully I can assemble everything in July:)

Some pictures. Hopefully the very last rendered ones:)


pedal1



pedal2

The pedal castings require some polishing and filing. So I started it as well. On the left is the orginal, on the right is the "almost" finished:)


DSC_0182[1]

I finished today with the assembling of the rudder mech. It is awsome, I am really happy with it. I removed the two small linear dampers from the top, they were just too weak. I will add later a strong rotary damper instead. Changing the load character is also possible later with the CAM`s modification.

The pedal castings are not finished yet so they are cool decoration only on the pictures:)


DSC_0964 by csaba.moharos, on Flickr


DSC_0966 by csaba.moharos, on Flickr


DSC_0962 by csaba.moharos, on Flickr


DSC_0961 by csaba.moharos, on Flickr

cheers
MM

Can you provide measurements for those pedals? Just overall length, width and depth.
Thanks in advance.

Are you looking for the size of the toepedal castings or the overall dimensions of the construction?

Thanks for the reply.
Just the castings.

Height: 290mm
Width: 117mm
Depth: 120mm (including the bottom boot flange)

You sir, are a gentleman. Thankyou.

A very simple design. Outstanding work!

salute!

Not simple at all. But the quality of the engineering makes it look like it is.

How is the cam profile and spring working out?

Hi Brigstock,

it works very well. Nice linear feeling both ways with smooooth travel. A bit way too smooth actually, some friction would be nice. Probably I will do some experiment with additional hydraulic damping, and different CAM profiles.

What is in my way is the lack of the testbed to screw the pedals and the stick on. So no real testing were done so far. A simple testbed is under constraction and I move to a new house, where I will have the space for it:)

Some pictures

pedal-3 by csaba.moharos, on Flickr


pedal-6 by csaba.moharos, on Flickr

That looks stunning!!

Nicely shown off there MMaister. You get a real feel of how much work has gone into them.

I love my Simpeds, but what I wouldn't give to have your skill.


Probably a little nerdy of me but



is now my desktop wallpaper


BTW any plans for a throttle assembly to compliment the stick and pedals?

Hey Brigstock,

sexy wallpaper, i have to admit:)
I don`t plan to make throttle at the moment. Actually one loses a good amount of functionality when replaces a hotas stick with a 4 button warbird stick. I wanna keep the hotas throttle to have enough buttons, switches and axis for keyboard-free control.

I did not know this when I made my pedal. According to my work, you have made a copy. You need to have a conscience. Say - as well as at the Baur.

I do not speak English. I think you do not understand: (

Congratulations - a very good pedal.

Hi Baur,

I am sorry if you feel like this. As I wrote, your work was inspiring, but the solution is not yours, but some guy`s at Boeing. So it is not correct to call it to a copy of your concept.

my friendly regards
MM

All up to us

While the house is not ready to assemble my gear yet, I decided to do some development on the design.

I am working on a damping solution for the pedals. I think it will be a great addition and will increase the realistic feeling.
The damper I use is a steering damper for motorcycles (I bought it on e-bay). It has a strong, adjustable effect, and it is sturdy enough to survive the torture. The downside is that the original design was not prepared to accept a big damping cylinder, so I have to squeeze it in. I also have to use the mounting gear what came with the cylinder. Luckily it is possible. It will stick out a bit though.


001 by csaba.moharos, on Flickr


002 by csaba.moharos, on Flickr

WOOOOW :-)
Great pedals. I must say I registered to this forum to comment on this!
I built my own pedals a while ago on woodworking CNC with Fundermax Maxcompact material - similar to bakelite. Big mistake was not doing reasearch prior doing it :-) I tried to make it easy project. Later I adopted Simed pedals style centering.

If anyone is intrested in my design it's no good becouse :
1. sliding rudder need greasing ...under a desk in a dusty enviroment it's a bad idea. I added 4x wheels on each pedal later but its too much friction for me, specialy becouse pedals are high above slider which contribute to forces causing friction.
2. CAM centering is better than simped's, simply to adopt different strenght along the curve and nicer center feel
3. I used 100N pneumatic compression cylinder for brakes. Cylinder is a standard part in furniture industry and quite affordable - 5 Eur, but it's lenght forced me to use it under this angle - and it's too weak. Under a more narrow angle between pedals it would be more suitable as it would use more compresive lenght of cylinder...so it's better to use spring or smaller cylinder like Vo101mmaister did.

To Vo101mmaister:
I am going to make new design, similar to yours but using cheaper materials (bakelite-alike 10mm board,springs,ballbearings). If you are willing to share your drawings it would speed me up a lot :-). I'm most intrested in centering cam and spring desing...if it's working for you why not use same dimensions and CAM curve,bearing diameter.
Also what's your distance - center to center between pedals, and how much travel? I used 25 degree travel angle, 350mm centre to centre, 310x120mm foot support ( bit long, everything else is ok for my legs :-).

Also you didn't comment on which controler board and sensors/pots did you go for and how happy are you with those ?

Thank you in forward and regards to all
Milan

Hey VO101MMaister, what are the two lower bearings that you used, visible in this pic?

I tried using a lazy susan bearing, but mine is not smooth, and has too much lateral movement.

Hi chaps,

sry I was away from this thread for a while. I have been very busy recently and have had very little time to finish my controller projects. But last week I installed the damper, and it seems to be very good.

Here are some answers for your questions.



Hi Milan,

I can`t share drawings or actual documentation, but I will be happy to help you to make your own design. The center to center and travel specs must be checked. I will do it when I will be at home and post them here.

The controller is Leo bodnar`s BU0836A type
The sensors are Magnetoresistive sensors, made by a talented ukrainian guy.






Hi Julian,

the bearings are standard cheap Y-bearings in pressed plate housings.
The one I use is made by INA its part no. is RATY 15 for the housing and AY15-NPP-B for the bearing

So here are the dimensions. (they are ca. identical with the Bf109g-6`s rudder pedal):

center to center: 430mm
deflection: +/- 25deg

In my pedals I used a single bearing, the kind used in roller skates, sandwiched between two aluminium plates. The axle is fixed to an 8mm diameter bolt running through the bearing, the cage is fixed to the base. But with my pedals the bearing does not support any axial load, since the pedals run on their own linear bearings, that take all the weight. If the bearing was to support the pedals then probably it would be better to have two of them, a few centimeters apart.

Thank you VO101MMaister

Your help is just enought for me to "stay on track". I just wanted confirmation that my design consideration is OK.
Funny tho, I intend to use similar main bearing, just a bit bigger :-).

I am also in contact with ukrainian guy. I am considering using his controler with magnetoresistor on board + 2 hall sensors for brakes. So are you happy with magnetoresistors ? Gives you close to 12 bit resolution with no complications ?

Milan

Milan,

I have mechanical approach and I know very little about electronics. I measure the volts by sliding gauge
I don`t have a clue about the resolution I get from the sensors, but they are connected to a BU0836A 12-Bit Joystick Controller by Leo Bodnar, and they are working great! It was also very easy to adjust them.

If You are talking about GVL224 - gvl224@ukr.net , then it is our joint development. Now GVL224 makes ALL electronic devices for BRD! - http://avia-sim.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683

In THE photo another controller, not the 12-bit. But now we have it is a 12-bit and 4096 counts on the axis.
On-Board controller magnetoresistor. And two more connected to it.

This version of the controller specifically for the pedals.


The work of this electronics tested me for a long time. I can answer Your questions. How will Google translator :))