I'm am really getting my butt handed to me. Need some advice on how to counter Tanks with infantry. I find myself so often deployed and tanks come rolling in. From the original game I remember using the hide and hold fire until the tanks are close then attack with Molotovs or RPGs. That doesn't seem to work as well in this setting. I have had one enemy tank wipe out a complete company or more. They just keep moving around until they have found all the infantry and annihilated them.

The thing is that the AI for infantry doesn't seem to try to avoid going head to head with tanks. When I see a tank I order fast move on my infantry to a location as far away as possible. Of course once a tank is in view it is too late. The problem is they just walk and don't run and are thus are overrun by the tank.

I know that infantry Panics once the commander is dead and only one or two men are left but I really wish the AI had a better human self preservation instinct. I don't see anything wrong with the AI refusing to obey some orders. This would apply as well for head long charges by infantry into intrenched enemy positions.

APOS?

Use the assault button (global order) + fast move. You can rush a tank or run away.

its much harder now since the first releases of Achtng Panzer, even from digged in troops..

I know what you mean! Couple weekends back my guys got slaughtered by 2 tiger tanks. But you can loose a few battles and win the campaign. Don't just think about the battle but the campaign. As far as not seeing what your getting hit with..........SCOUTS. Find a peice of worthless land with good visability stick a squad up there. They see stuff gives you time to figure out something. If you have too play muscial map. I have used this one a few times. Let them take objectives, often the force attacking starts to split up going for objectives. Sometimes you get lucky and can pick off the random sqaud if they do it. Then keep moving! Then the last few minutes of the battle, recapture undefended flags. You will loose the battle but preserve alot of your force for later. Hopefully AT guns and tanks show up for your side.

FlashBurn is totally rights.

War it's a maneuver+shooting. Not only alone shooting.

Is there no real way for German infantry to take out Russian tanks without AT guns or tanks of their own? I'm new to this game, so forgive me if i'm overlooking something. I know in reality tanks unsupported by infantry are pretty vulnerable. I've played the first battle in my first campaign twice (accidentally exited and lost my progress 1st time). My 1st time I chewed up the enemy infantry but saw no way to take on the 2 Matildas that were cruising around the map. The second time the tanks came in early and annhilated my infantry at will. Surely there is some way to deal with them? An entire company isnt expected to withdraw due to the presence of a single tank, right?

The only units that seem to potentially have any AT capability are an AT rifle team, Grenade launcher squad, and pioneer squad, but none of my units have done anything but run around and die when facing the tanks.

It was not until the 1970's that tanks had to have infantry support. And that was do to the introduction of small man portable anti tank missiles. An unguided rocket could be vary dangerous, but the range was hundreds of meters. Something like an AT-3 sager was in 1000's of meters.

For GTOS or Mius, none of this matters as range of an anti tank infantry weapon was usually how far you could throw it. And being that close to massed armor usually means your dead, you just do not know it yet.

Charging tanks in day light does not work. Even if you have a billion HHL-3's At night can work ok, but need to be sneaky. Like not detected. You need to generally let armor come to you. ANd remain unseen. If tanks are on a rampage, its get out of the way.

Tanks have always had to have infantry support from the start... There was nothing more dangerous to a tank than a determined infantryman who knew his stuff.

+1

I remember reading about the battle of Okinawa where the Army lost a lot of armor due partially to a difference in doctrine from the Marines, basically failing to support their tanks with infantry and essentially using them as a stand alone, rather than an infantry support force. It was a bad enough situation that the Marines refused to attach their tanks to the Army commands, preferring to keep them with their own units where they stood a much lesser chance of loss. That was 1945.

There may be no way to deal with the tanks in my battle scenario in this game...if that is the case, what do I do? Just withdraw? I'm still learning. I lost my progress in my first battle because, after apparently destroying the enemy infantry forces, I avoided the tanks and was unsure how to end the battle. I love the game...pretty steep learning curve, though.

Germans in invading France out paced infantry support. They won. Germans in Eastern Front, armor often left infantry behind, they won, at first. IDF in 6 day war, armored brigades went ranging all over the place, they won. Tried it again in 1973, they nearly lost and no one does this anymore. Modern light anti tank weapons with range mean this is a stupid thing to do most of the time. But it took to the 70's.

If in closed in areas and trying to take and hold ground, ya you want infantry. If operating in the open just trying to get into the rear and destroy the gear, leave the infantry behind was a common thing. Even green US troops equipped with M3a1 Stuarts in late 1942 in North Africa did a wacko cavalry charge of a German forward air strip. They where not trying to take and hold ground, they wanted to kill air planes and flak guns. And they did. Running out of ammo driving light tanks threw the tail sections of planes. Then left the AO. All the Flak guns and Luftwaffe infantry could not stop even this. But the land was build for armored warfare. Normandy or Italy is not. Cities are not. The Steppe of Eastern Europe is. You still need infantry if you want to clear things. But finding weak point to get into the rear a cut up and off units. No you do not need infantry. You hit a hard point, you shift 2km over where its soft. Drive into the rear, kill the supplies and cut off the retreat of the guys you left behind. Wait for your infantry to get caught up and squeeze. How do you think little Germany did what it did 1939-1942?

And we are talking about the days when the infantry anti tank weapons was thrown. On the plains of Ukraine I think folks have an unrealistic view of what armor will do to infantry if they lost their anti tank guns. You loose those, its time to pop smoke. Not charge tanks with hand grenades. And even most slow arse tanks can go faster than a running man. An infantry company or battalion with no anti tank guns is dead meat in open ground. It has to pull out or die. Those are the options. You do not need infantry support to deal with this. Armor, artillery and maybe tactical air is all you need. But if its in bad ground, trees, urban, broken ground, you need the infantry. Tanks are robbed of what they do well, mobility and fire power at range. Although, if infantry dug in behind mine fields, with interlocking anti tank guns, that is a different matter. You need infantry to screen the armor and clear the pits.


Long story short, there is not one right and one wrong. You stick tanks in places that are not good for tanks they get hurt with no little buddies to watch them. But in open spaces....you can run around in folds of the earth as an armored company and you can get the job done. And this could work vary well until 1973 on the right ground. A ww2 tank gun could shoot out to what? 2000 meters? A infantry guy with an anti tank hand grenade can throw that heavy thing to what? 25 meters? Just do not let infantry get close.

This is my point, though. I am not facing an armored company but one unsupported Matilda vs an infantry company. It is not at range, but driving slowly amongst my troops, in the woods. Yet still there seems to be no way for them to do any damage to the tank.

What do your troops have? Use roll over of ammo icon. If not HHL-3 or satchel charges its a pickle. The 6 stick grenade sometimes kills tanks. Sometimes... usually no. Rifle grenades from Kar98 being 30mm little things are only going to scratch the paint. Anti tank rifle is worthless up against a Matilda. Need a 50mm pak anti tank gun or 4. If you do not have anything to fight with, you can not stick around. It becomes what do you do if you DON'T have rock, paper, scissors. Pop smoke. If these tanks have no infantry support and they are slow. Simply out maneuver them. Refuse battle. You can do a George Washington. All he had to do for 95 percent of that war was not get wiped out. And won in the end. With some French help. But still.

Think of overall picture. A few tanks can only be at a few places at once. If you can not fight them, do not be there. Once they bugger off, pull a Vietcong and get back in there. Just try and hold something somewhere on the map. Next turn, get something bigger and blow them up.

Just need eyes in lots of places so you know where to not go and where too go. In combat units pull out all the time if they stand no chance. Its not cowardice. The reverse is to sit there and be utterly destroyed which does no one any good except the enemy.


If you do have some chuck-able anti tank weapons, is usually too late if your taking fire. Your guys get suppressed. You have to ambush tanks. And place the guys with anti tank grenades vary well. Close enough to support main force but far enough away to not get seen and not get suppressed by fire. Infantry grenades VS tank works best in bad weather and at night. In day its really in the tanks court. But it can be done. but have to pick ground vary careful. This is the hard bit. The best bush wack is an A B combo. Let the tanks bump into your anti tank infantry. Then open up for a couple flanks with anti tank guns. Where ever the tank sticks his heavy armored front, somewhere is showing his less armored flank. And pioneers and engineers are the best tank killers in game for the crunchies.


Keep in mind, the Matilda was an incredibly hard nut to crack pre 1942. This thing was designed to machine gun down infantry at close range. That was its reason for being. Support infantry. Which generally means get close and kill stuff.

Opps wrong thread DOH.

Yeah, I guess I should just didi when the tanks come around in that scenario. There really is no way to take them out with what I have available. Its the first scenario in the first campaign in OS. Can't remember what its called. I just have one infantry company and a supply unit, both demoralized and nearly out of supplies. No AT assets to speak of. I ended up starting a different campaign, using SS Das Reich troops, and I am having a blast with it. I have really figured out a lot more of how to play and am starting to get pretty decent. I am sure I will still learn more of the functionalities of the different units as I continue. I'm quickly becoming a really big fan of this game.

Im learning too. I can handle the tac. mode pretty well. Now I try to find out how the operational mode is working.
I think, the AI is the one of the best in wargames.

Only real beef with AI is it attacking on OP map when its insane to do so. Ok some other little things here and there. But that is to be expected. But on OP map why on earth are 2 infantry platoons with a truck attacking my tank company with butt loads of infantry? The AI should know what I have. Not a question mark. That is a different thing if AI has no clue what you are. Only way to know is butt heads and see. But after that fact, when you know there is a tank company with supporting infantry would you ATTACK with massively inferior force? Like these battles I am getting into now, I get attacked with like 220 combat power of enemy and I have like 1100. It would be nice if something got better on that front. But all these games this happens so probably not that easy. I have the feeling AI on OP map has no idea what player has even when it should have an idea after fighting previous battles.

On the other hand, this does cause me to expend ammo. So follow on battles, at least in GTOS could get interesting. What good is a bunch of tanks with no ammo do to you murdering everyone over 4 turns.

Still a great game IMO. But that one is kind of silly.


Oh forgot. But once in battle sometimes it seems to know its utterly hosed. Or its set to something in campaign like defense or hold. Then after attacking you it sits there or does this strange wandering about its bit of the map. I am guessing this is recon in force? But all it does if you have scouts out is let you know where everything that can move a bunch is. If you have a huge force, ok. Kill time for the AI doing something daft. But if you do not have a huge force under this circumstance or are way out numbered. You sit there for however long the battle is. Maybe it will attack or maybe not. So why did it attack on the OP map to sit their in the tactical battle? Some of this is fine. It means less predictable. A good thing. But after 3 or 4 battles of the AI starting fights it will not go threw on, well that get annoying.