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#3496332 - 01/17/12 04:32 AM Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3  
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iron mike Offline
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This is a preview of RAF No. 213 Squadron. This unit is from 1942-43 and flew from airfields in Egypt.

Thanks to Ray ROTTON50 for the round wheels and correct rear fuselage on this model that came from the original model and skin: Nico based on an original camo work by DeanH, based on Col Gibbon's HR Trop Hurricane 3Dz.

And to Peter Booth for research and suggestions on squadrons to paint from the Desert War.







IM wave2

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#3496419 - 01/17/12 09:21 AM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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Col. Gibbon Offline
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Hi Mike.

That last ones a bit strange. What happend? Did they use odd bits of Ju88 to make an engine cover?????? confused


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#3496447 - 01/17/12 11:30 AM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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Col.J.D.Landers Offline
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Beautiful work again Mike!!


The temptation to form premature theories upon insufficient data is the bane of our profession. - Sherlock Holmes
#3496519 - 01/17/12 02:49 PM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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Nice work Mike and I did notice Ray's hand in improving the model.

Well done to you both.

Cheers pilot
David


"The further backwards you look, the further forwards you can see"
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#3496605 - 01/17/12 05:20 PM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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iron mike Offline
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There are quite a few illustrations of this machine. A photo is the Holy Grail of Hurricane historians.


#3496638 - 01/17/12 06:03 PM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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Pobs Offline
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Lovely work Mike smile

Thanks for all the time and effort smile

cheers,



Pobs

#3496901 - 01/17/12 11:08 PM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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Col. Gibbon Offline
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But why Mike?

Did he want to try and fool the Italian Pilots?


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#3497004 - 01/18/12 02:00 AM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: Col. Gibbon]  
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iron mike Offline
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Honestly, I have no explanation for the camo. Perhaps the crew chief had an artistic bent.

#3497674 - 01/18/12 10:47 PM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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PeterMBooth Offline
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Hi Guys,

The rather strange nose camo is probably down to me as I sent Mike a profile of it. Clearly non-standard field application - not sure how or why it came about but I have seen profiles of the same aircraft fom 3 different sources including an old "Profile Publications" which are usually pretty accurate, but no actual photo of it so far. Of course if the original source was wrong and the other 2 copied it then it may not be correct - difficult to tell. I will have to see if I can find an actual photo but for the moment I will assume it is genuine. If any of you find pics that either confirm of otherwise please let either me or IM know. It certainly seems to have grabbed your attention, which is not bad. And in answer to your question John, perhaps you are right - a couple of seconds uncertainty by the enemy could just save your life I suppose!

Cheers,

Pete


With increasing age should come wisdom and tolerance, but as the saying goes, "there is no fool like an old fool" as I prove regularly!

#3497890 - 01/19/12 04:45 AM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: PeterMBooth]  
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iron mike Offline
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Thanks Pete.

Ralf, the IIC will need a FM. yep

#3497915 - 01/19/12 06:03 AM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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Brit44 'Aldo' Offline
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Mike,
can I ask?
what makes the flight model different from the .303 version?

I do not try to be an ass, I just ask


TPA who TWI
#3498020 - 01/19/12 11:42 AM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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Originally Posted By: iron mike
Thanks Pete.

Ralf, the IIC will need a FM. yep


Mike, isn't there already a IIc fm in the planes folder?
(slot 09fm)

AO

#3498049 - 01/19/12 01:00 PM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: PeterMBooth]  
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#3498056 - 01/19/12 01:20 PM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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Col. Gibbon Offline
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Well done Mike.

You must enjoy stirring the pot of #%&*$#! biggrin


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#3498430 - 01/19/12 08:13 PM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: Brit44 'Aldo']  
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iron mike Offline
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Two things AO. The first is the PHurBex.pcx (the cannon) and the hard points on the model. The first wings Ray sent over don't have the hard points so they work for the .303 armed machines. But, since we can't have two or more different FMs flying from the same slot( yet) the planes need to have the same arms.

#3498561 - 01/19/12 10:20 PM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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Col. Gibbon Offline
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Originally Posted By: iron mike
Two things AO. The first is the PHurBex.pcx (the cannon) and the hard points on the model. The first wings Ray sent over don't have the hard points so they work for the .303 armed machines. But, since we can't have two or more different FMs flying from the same slot( yet) the planes need to have the same arms.



That's right Mike. that was the final part of the MS project. Admittedly more for WWI than WWII, where mixed flights were more common, Mike's mixed Hurricanes is just as valid, as would be P51 B' and D's together, different Mk's of Spitfire, and lots of different P38's!


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#3498648 - 01/19/12 11:29 PM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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PeterMBooth Offline
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Hi Guys,

Mike (Sandbagger) - as you say a very interesting link - perhaps this particular Hurri was intended to fool the Italians/Germans - who knows.

Aldo, I am no expert on FM but I think the following points are relevant. Firstly the guns and ammo have a certain weight and a 20mm cannon and shells weigh more than the equivalent Browning 0.303 mg and bullets so that has a small effect on the aircraft performance, particularly when you have 4 cannon in the Hurricane Mk IIc compared with 8 x 0.303 Brownings in the MkI and MkIIa and 12 in the MkIIb. The MkIIc is going to be a little bit slower and more sluggish though the other thing is that the engine was upgraded and more powerful so that counteracted the weight quite a bit, which is another thing the FM should allow for. In the tropical versions it gets even more complicated as to stop sand getting in to the air intake and ruining the engine various forms of filters were fitted. The Me 109 had a rather slim filter which probably had a limited effect on performance, but factory built Spitfires and Hurricanes had the very bulky Vokes filter under the nose which knocked at least 20mph of the top speed. To try and improve things a locally built "Aboukir" filter was often fitted which was a lot smaller and had far less detrimental effect. Again a good FM will model the changed performance.

Secondly, and far more important, if you are flying the model and try and shoot at an enemy aircraft, the FM determines how many guns you have, where they are, how much ammo you have, what your rate of fire and effective range is, and how much damage they can do. So if you are flying a Hurricane MkIa with 8 Brownings and find yourself behind a nice fat He 111, then if you have set max realism and have only 15 seconds worth of ammo and your aim is as bad as mine, you will probably need a 10 second burst at close range to shoot it down, whereas with a MkIIc with 4 cannon and rather less ammo you could blow it up with a short burst from greater range. And of course the FM determines what you see when the guns fire so you get 8, 12 or just 4 streams of tracer heading for the target, depending on which Mark you are flying.

Take an example. John (Col Gibbon) has been working on a model of the Handley Page Hampden for 3 years but unless somebody comes up with a decent FM for it, it will be at best inaccurate to use in EAW (the JU88 FM might work fairly well perhaps) and at worst a waste of time. The FM determines amongst other things the defensive guns and their field of fire, the range/speed at various altitudes, the overall performance in terms of speed and manoeuverability, the fuel and bomb load. That is how important FM are and it seems very few persons on the forum know how to make them fairly accurately.

Sorry it is a bit of a lecture but I hope that answers your question.

Cheers,

Peter


With increasing age should come wisdom and tolerance, but as the saying goes, "there is no fool like an old fool" as I prove regularly!

#3498669 - 01/19/12 11:46 PM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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Col. Gibbon Offline
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Hi Peter.

I suppose I worked on the Hampden about a month, to get it where it is today. But having to build the wings distance models, damaged wings, etc, leaves me a bit cold.

If I did not have three children to look after, a house to keep clean, various illnesses, for which I take 9 tablets daily, which leave me in a state of sleepiness until around Midday, and my bad hands, I would have finished shed loads of models by now. My low output is of great distress to me, and just adds to my depression. smile


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#3498958 - 01/20/12 05:27 AM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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Brit44 'Aldo' Offline
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Peter,
Thank you for the detailed responce You also pointed me in the proper direction to research the subject.

#3499059 - 01/20/12 09:58 AM Re: Hurricane IIc's 213 Squadron, Egypt 1942-3 [Re: iron mike]  
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Rotton50 Offline
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Hey John,

I could probably take care of the wings for you. Want to send the files over?


Raymond S Otton
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