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#3588223 - 06/08/12 06:17 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Lonewolf357]
Hpasp Offline
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Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1708
Loc: Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: Lonewolf357
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Good argument thumbsup, probably the AN/TLQ-32 was not operated...


Hmm, my 2004 Jane's radars and electronic warfare systems says following:

"The AN/TLQ-32 ARM-D was selected by the US Air Force (USAF) in March 1989, with a then year US$11.6 million contract for two `first article' examples being awarded during the following September. Testing of these began in May 1992 and full-scale production of 14 systems to protect USAF AN/TPS-75 radars began in December 1992. During 1996, additional TLQ-32 systems were delivered to the US Air National Guard"

Neither USAF nor Air National Guard operates the Patriots, Army does...


Just look at what Janes's says about SA-2/3/4/5... biggrin

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Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

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While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3588233 - 06/08/12 06:44 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
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Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Just look at what Janes's says about SA-2/3/4/5... biggrin


What does it say? smile

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#3588243 - 06/08/12 07:18 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
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Registered: 04/27/12
Posts: 237
Loc: Czech Republic
I see biggrin confused
Guidance is by course correction command signals from the associated `Square Pair' radar with the missile's own active radar terminal homing seeker being activated near to the projected intercept point.

Link

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#3588257 - 06/08/12 08:07 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]
Lonewolf357 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 169
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
I see biggrin confused
Guidance is by course correction command signals from the associated `Square Pair' radar with the missile's own active radar terminal homing seeker being activated near to the projected intercept point.

Link


This is from Jane's of 1994...

By the way, that's what Jane's said about an S-125:
"The first recorded combat use of the S-125 was in 1970 when PVO-Strany units, including several `Goa' missile regiments, were deployed to Egypt with twin launchers to form a joint Egyptian-Soviet air defence network to cover the Suez Canal Zone during the last phase of the 1968 to 1970 Egyptian-Israeli War of Attrition.
Although a large number of men and much equipment was lost to Israeli air attacks, the PVO-Strany units shot down a total of five McDonnell Douglas F-4E Phantoms with the S-125 and were instrumental in forcing on the Israelis the 7 August 1970 UN ceasefire.
The next combat use came in late 1972 when the North Vietnamese used small numbers of S-125s against American aircraft during the Linebacker raids. Their first and only recorded kill was also against an F-4 Phantom of the US Marine Corps."

Is this true? Did they actually downed five Phantoms over Egypt and one - in Vietnam?

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#3588310 - 06/08/12 09:53 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
GrayGhost Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4311
At that point decoys may not have been very effective. HARM is constantly upgraded - but maybe you are right, who knows ...

And yes you are correct - the main dangers to USAF and IAF have been SAMs. But that doesn't stop them from being speed bumps for those air-forces. I think it says more about the opposing air forces than the SAMs. Any time that the airborne opposition was not competitive, air power did a lot of damage despite SAMs being around - and this is exactly what I mean by 'speed bumps'. I don't mean you can ignore them.

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Good argument thumbsup, probably the AN/TLQ-32 was not operated...

SAM's always performed better than MiGs.
SAM's were able to shot down U2's, B-52's, F-16's, F-117, while these plane types were never shot down by a MiG.
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#3588449 - 06/08/12 01:49 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: GrayGhost]
Hpasp Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1708
Loc: Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
At that point decoys may not have been very effective. HARM is constantly upgraded - but maybe you are right, who knows ...

And yes you are correct - the main dangers to USAF and IAF have been SAMs. But that doesn't stop them from being speed bumps for those air-forces. I think it says more about the opposing air forces than the SAMs. Any time that the airborne opposition was not competitive, air power did a lot of damage despite SAMs being around - and this is exactly what I mean by 'speed bumps'. I don't mean you can ignore them.

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Good argument thumbsup, probably the AN/TLQ-32 was not operated...

SAM's always performed better than MiGs.
SAM's were able to shot down U2's, B-52's, F-16's, F-117, while these plane types were never shot down by a MiG.


Also to consider the other side of the coin...
...no (fighter jock) in any F-16/15 was ever able to engage any incoming SCUD missile.
biggrin




Edited by Hpasp (06/08/12 01:55 PM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
thumbsup

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#3588458 - 06/08/12 02:00 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
GrayGhost Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4311
Maybe not this day, but an F-15 fighter jock HAS shot a sattelite out of orbit biggrin

There was some idea proposed by Ratheon to arm F-15's with PAC-3's, but it was a silly idea.

I don't think you could reasonably expect a fighter to counter SRBMs or MRBMs anyway, for sure.

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Also to consider the other side of the coin...
...no (fighter jock) in any F-16/15 was ever able to engage any incoming SCUD missile.
biggrin
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44th VFW

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#3588470 - 06/08/12 02:14 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: GrayGhost]
Hpasp Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1708
Loc: Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
Maybe not this day, but an F-15 fighter jock HAS shot a sattelite out of orbit biggrin

There was some idea proposed by Ratheon to arm F-15's with PAC-3's, but it was a silly idea.

I don't think you could reasonably expect a fighter to counter SRBMs or MRBMs anyway, for sure.

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Also to consider the other side of the coin...
...no (fighter jock) in any F-16/15 was ever able to engage any incoming SCUD missile.
biggrin


Big problem is that hostile nations towards the west are more and more investing into SRBM technology, instead of MiG-29's.
(After the expert Serbian MiG-29 drivers suffered severe punishing, while Serbian SAM crews mostly survived during OAF.)

In my opinion, West needs to invest more into ATBM-SAM technology, than into TOP GUN...
cowboy


Edited by Hpasp (06/08/12 02:36 PM)
_________________________
Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History.
(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
thumbsup

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#3588508 - 06/08/12 03:15 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
Lonewolf357 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 169
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

In my opinion, West needs to invest more into ATBM-SAM technology, than into TOP GUN...


And they do! Patriot PAC3, Standard SM3, THAAD, GBI, Israeli Arrow - all are dedicated anti-BM weapons! Even Franco-Italian PAAMS/SAMP-T has a substantial anti-TBM capability: http://www.eurosam.com/ground.html I wouldn't say that they do not invest enough, in fact I'd say quite the opposite!

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#3588527 - 06/08/12 03:31 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]
GrayGhost Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 4311
^^^^

Yep, exactly. Also, THAAD aside they have minuteman missiles converted into ABM, IIRC.
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