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#3493385 - 01/12/12 07:22 PM Sim Racing, how to start?  
Joined: Jun 2008
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Staniol Offline
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Staniol  Offline
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Hungary
I couldn't find a specific thread on this, nor a sticky, so I am dare to put this question up.
I was always on the verge of taking sim racing seriously, but now i have the mood to give it a try.
(Started with Revs on C64, F1GP2 took a lot of time from me, my favourite NFS is the Porsche, played Colin McRea and GP4 in and out, but all with keyboard.)
Main questions I have:
- what is the cheapest wheel I should by, which can give me proper taste of simracing?
I assume force feedback is a must, so this should be somewhere around Logitech formula force gp or something. (Older ones are tend to be cheap). The reason I am looking for a cheap one, (apart from the economical crisis + my wonderful government) is that I am still not sure if I will be a serious racer or not, but I want to give it a try.
Wouldn't be a wise idea to by a G27 just to sell it 2 months later cause I cannot find the fun I am looking for.

- Which Sim should I go for? Rfactor 1? (I do not really like formula 1, but I love NASCAR racing and touring cars.)
Is there any old gem I should try out?

Thanks in advance and sorry for bad English.


Freedom of speech is our birth right, but the privilege of being heard needs to be gained.
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#3493418 - 01/12/12 08:04 PM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
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Ragtop Offline
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I'm glad someone bit the bullet and asked this, I've been hunting for the gold for a couple of days now!

I, however was a bit more careless, and just ordered a G27, and now I'm trying to find the sim to go with it!

So far I've tested rFactor 1, and GTR Evolution.
I'll give you my experiences with the two in the couple of hours I've spent on the demos!

rFactor is available as a demo from the rFactor website, its a full installer with limited features for demo.
GTR Evo is available as a standalone demo on Steam. Note that GTR Evo is an add on for Race 07, although the demo is standalone, you'll have to buy Race and the DLC (Both sims are very affordable though!)

Onto the sims! Note I've only played both with a keyboard so far! rFactor immediately felt a bit dated when I launched it, the menus are low res and the music is a bit ropey! I've only driven the trainer car. The cockpit is pretty well textured, but the trees etc look like they're from Doom or something! Of course graphics aren't the sales pitch for racing sims, but they're a huge help for immersion! As all the critics will tell you however, the physics are amazing! You can really feel how the car needs to be driven into the corners etc, even on a keyboard, so with a wheel it'll be awesome. The mod community for rFactor is HUGE, so it's well worth a look, even if the vanilla game is a little long in the tooth!

GTR Evo, I was blown away by. Menus are much more up to date, and setting up controls was a breeze. The demo is one car on my local track, Brands Hatch, so automatically I was smitten! The demo comes with multiplayer, and immediately I coersed a friend to get the demo. We probably sunk 3 hours ito that demo last night, and I will 100% be buying it. Graphics are as good as they could be for the games age, there is great DLC, the sounds are amazing and from my very limited feel with a keyboard, the physics felt very good.

All in all, I can see myself spending more time in GTR, because I feel like I'll need to do less work to get it to where I can enjoy myself, but I'm going to delve deeper into rFactor too and see what I can get out of it!

Hope this helps!


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#3493470 - 01/12/12 08:50 PM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Apr 2011
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TroyMcClure Offline
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Singapore
Hi, good questions!

I can't recommend a wheel because I tend to buy expensive hardware for myself (though the G25 I have was actually quite reasonable). All I can say is that a G27 would sell well on eBay if you decide you don't like it, and you will have minimized your losses in case you don't like it.

I don't like rFactor 1 so I can't really recommend it either, but certainly a lot of people find it good so this is probably worth checking as Ragtop said.
The simbin titles mentioned by Ragtop are really not bad if you like Touring/GT racing. I think Simbin just recently released a package with Race07 and all its extensions. There sure is quite a bit of content there.

rFactor 2 is in beta and you can buy it since a couple of days, however there is still much work to be done (beta) and it's lacking content for now.

iRacing is the best in my opinion, in all respects: graphics, physics, clean racing, web service experience with series and leagues. If you like Nascar, there are not many other decent games out there anyway. 3 months of service will cost you 12 USD, full year 99USD supposedly though there are always discounts to be had and I haven't paid more than 75.

#3493484 - 01/12/12 09:06 PM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 4,082
McGonigle Online cool
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McGonigle  Online Cool
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Copenhagen, Denmark
Maybe a Driving Force GT at half the price of a G27 would be interesting. It has force feedback, a sequential stick shifter and a decent number of buttons and dials that will let you adjust and control many parameters from the wheel. I'm pretty sure this wheel also supports PC.

For simulations, a copy of the original rFactor will provide a nice basis for any mod you'd like to try out: Free mods, Touring cars, Nascar, Open wheelers, just about anything you can wish for is available from http://www.rfactorcentral.com/, including lots of tracks.

I think this is a very affordable entry as a way of testing your interest, and also giving you equipment that will let you get a proper taste of simracing, and capabale of doing a good job with other sims you might wish to add later.

Last edited by McGonigle; 01/12/12 09:08 PM.

Jens C. Lindblad


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#3493541 - 01/12/12 10:19 PM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
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Posts: 845
mr_hill Offline
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Okay well first of all good choice in joining us over here in the motorsport section wink

Okay cheap wheels, gonna be something Logitech , i myself couldnt afford a G27 and have a Logitech Formula Force EX which is just as sturdy a piece of kit and has all the forcefeedback etc

Sims, well rFactor 1 grab that, tons of mods ranging from everything so you will always find something for you ! and you can join us here at SimHQ for the SCES Endurance racing, where you can drive a tintop or a prototype (dont worry there is always alot of us about who will spend time in the server with you to get you up to speed) and thats all fixed setups so its all down to the drivers smile

We also run Skoda's which is pretty much like touring cars and is a great bit of fun! and there is also a Daytona Nascar race coming up!

that is all for rfactor.

GTR/GTR2 - both great games in my opinion but the online side of things is very lacking these days, i have GTR2 and because i could only ge a pre-owned copy it didnt have a working online code for me to access online side of things, but both are amazing single player games thats for sure.

GTR Evolution/Race07 - Still another good game though i do not rate these as highly as rFactor and the GTR1/GTR2 games, though both are still enjoyable, both also have a decent following online but i dont think we run anything on them here so you would be looking at competing with complete strangers over at other sites or race2play.com

rFactor 2 beta - Amazing, i reccomend signing up and getting the lifetime membership for the online side of things, a one off payment which is so worth it! will be a beast of a game when released!

GTR3 - thats out later in the year as far as we know no beta yet though but sure to be amazing

So grab yourself a copy of rfactor, or a copy of all the above :P and get on the SimHQ server with us guys, i'm usually about so i'm willing to spend some time in server with you to help you get into the swing of things smile

Last edited by mr_hill; 01/12/12 10:21 PM.

First Ever Win: STCC, Donnington Park, Race 2, 19th March 2012
First Ever Podium: 2nd, Silverstone SCES 2011
First Ever Pole: Race 1, Thruxton, SSTCC, 8th April 2012
First Ever Fastest Lap: Le Mans, SCES, 3:59.028, 3rd June 2012
Wins: 3 (3 SSTCC)
Podiums: 10 (3 SCES, 7 SSTCC)
Pole Positions: 3 (1 SCES, 2 SSTCC)
Fastest Laps: 1 (1 SCES)

3rd Overall SSTCC Great Britain Series, 2012.

Team: Ozjet Racing
Number(s): 26 (SCES) 27 (STCC)
#3493558 - 01/12/12 10:31 PM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 829
stewartforgie Offline
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stewartforgie  Offline
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Posts: 829
Grangemouth. Scotland.
If you are thinking of becoming a sim racer something to consider is that it very much depends on whether you want to race online or offline which sim you should buy. If online is your thing then I can recommend rFactor. The netcode is superb and on the SimHQ servers you can race without too much obligation to have to turn up to every session. The skoda races that are run regularly on the SimHQ servers are not meant to be taken seriously and as such offer a great intro into the sim and the online racing here at SimHQ. There is also the VHR mod for rFactor which will give you your nascar fix if that is your thing. As far as Iracing is concerned I would be a bit wary off going down that road unless you are sure you will commit to simracing as a serious hobby as it can get very expensive. This is another plus for rFactor as it is cheap as chips, the mods are free and the online racing is good.

If you would rather be racing offline then one of the simbin titles would be a good bet as they tend to have pretty good AI for you to race against. Personaly I would recommend you get online as soon as you feel comfortable though as no AI will ever compete with racing against other human drivers.

As far as the wheel goes you should get the best that you can afford. You dont want to be put off your new found passion by a ropey wheel and pedals that dont perform as they should. Since the introduction of the Logitech G27, you might be able to find a reasonably priced G25 on ebay. If you do go down the Logitech G27 route you wont have any trouble selling if you decide racing is not your thing.

Finally if you want to try Simracing,dont be too intimidated to join us online. I would recommend you first buy rFactor1 then download the Skoda mod from the forum thread, get on teamspeak and join us online for the time of your life. You will find a wide spread of ages and talent in the SimHQ servers so you wont need to feel embarrassed about not being up to speed at the outset. Heck I am 61 years old and can regularly be found trundling round at the back of the field and if I can do it, anybody can. So, to anyone contemplating becoming a sim racer, I hope to see you on track soon.


Cheers,
Stewart.
#3493857 - 01/13/12 08:15 AM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 796
Staniol Offline
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Staniol  Offline
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Posts: 796
Hungary
Thanks for all the answers, looks like you have a nice community here, which will make things easier for me.
I decided to give simracing a try, see you on the track!


Freedom of speech is our birth right, but the privilege of being heard needs to be gained.
#3493915 - 01/13/12 11:19 AM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 845
mr_hill Offline
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Posts: 845
Excellent welcome to the family! Let us know what you invest in and im more than happy to spend time in server with you mate, especially in the Skoda's as Stewart said a nice easy way to break into simracing, also any practice we do on server/practice races arent taken too seriously especially the Skoda's they are a nice bit of fun so, spins crashes etc we usually end up having a great laugh about lol smile


First Ever Win: STCC, Donnington Park, Race 2, 19th March 2012
First Ever Podium: 2nd, Silverstone SCES 2011
First Ever Pole: Race 1, Thruxton, SSTCC, 8th April 2012
First Ever Fastest Lap: Le Mans, SCES, 3:59.028, 3rd June 2012
Wins: 3 (3 SSTCC)
Podiums: 10 (3 SCES, 7 SSTCC)
Pole Positions: 3 (1 SCES, 2 SSTCC)
Fastest Laps: 1 (1 SCES)

3rd Overall SSTCC Great Britain Series, 2012.

Team: Ozjet Racing
Number(s): 26 (SCES) 27 (STCC)
#3494832 - 01/14/12 06:56 PM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 796
Staniol Offline
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Staniol  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 796
Hungary
Hi all.
Short status report:
- Bought an almost unused Logitech formula force ex (was 30 euros).
- Downloaded R factor, re-installed Grid.
Spent a lot of time with configuring, but its getting better every time.

Further questions:
- Any maintenance I should do to the wheel? (apart from the usual dust removal)
- So far I hate if force feedback (especially the centering) is strong, so I decreased strength. I assume its not a big deal, right?
- Should I go for Rfactor2? I am still on low budget, so cannot buy everything.
- If I (sooner or later) go for online racing, are there events in my European time? My time window is quite fixed, only after my daughter went to sleep. Anyway, I will explain my wife somehow, if there is something important. I understand its not like joining Rise of Flight session. smile
Thanks for all the help so far, I am progressing slowly, and enjoying every single step.

Last edited by Staniol; 01/14/12 06:59 PM. Reason: usual grammar stuff...

Freedom of speech is our birth right, but the privilege of being heard needs to be gained.
#3494848 - 01/14/12 07:22 PM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,468
SteveGee Offline
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SteveGee  Offline
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Posts: 1,468
Planet Earth
In the Logitech Profiler, you can turn down the centering spring strength....you can even turn it off, too if you want. For rFactor, there's a couple of plug-ins called RealFeel or Leo's FFB....both are good and more a personal preference. The latest version of RealFeel incorporates some of Leo's settings into it.

rFactor Central is a good site for all things rFactor. A link to RealFeel is there, as well as many other additions.

If you're just starting out, and on a low budget, wait a while before making the big plunge would be my thinking. Make sure you like it overall, and you can tweak your wheel and gear to your liking. Then, go from there.


"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
"Politicians are like dirty diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason."

Mark Twain

"I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every, single minute of it."
#3494898 - 01/14/12 08:42 PM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 845
mr_hill Offline
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mr_hill  Offline
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Posts: 845
Also in game in the forcefeedback settings on rfactor i have set it to -65 on the slider and medium strength also make sure its set to Wheel on the middle one.

As for races in your time zone we have races in an endurance series (all fixed setup so no need to worry about guys who have the perfect setup) which run at 5pm GMT UK time, which is slightly different for you i think, and there is the Skoda's which we run which are also around the same time.

Also Race2Play is a decent enough place but be warned you do get alot of randomers and you have to develop your own setup too. check out the Skoda thread above they are a good starting ground for online play, we have skoda races tomorrow if you would like to join in? smile


First Ever Win: STCC, Donnington Park, Race 2, 19th March 2012
First Ever Podium: 2nd, Silverstone SCES 2011
First Ever Pole: Race 1, Thruxton, SSTCC, 8th April 2012
First Ever Fastest Lap: Le Mans, SCES, 3:59.028, 3rd June 2012
Wins: 3 (3 SSTCC)
Podiums: 10 (3 SCES, 7 SSTCC)
Pole Positions: 3 (1 SCES, 2 SSTCC)
Fastest Laps: 1 (1 SCES)

3rd Overall SSTCC Great Britain Series, 2012.

Team: Ozjet Racing
Number(s): 26 (SCES) 27 (STCC)
#3495793 - 01/16/12 10:01 AM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 796
Staniol Offline
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Staniol  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 796
Hungary
Dear all,
(I do not want to make this into a blog, but until I get into speed, I think I will need some handholding, and its also good to share the fun.)

Uninstalled GRID, its not what I am looking for (had enough fun with it with keyboard when it came out).
Checked my old games, installed nascar 2003 and GPL, enjoying both. Loved the new installer of GPL, I am always surprised how much work some individuals can do for a community, respect to them!
So GPL is real fun, but I suck in it big time.
Since I am an old flightsim junkie, I tend to switch everything on realistic, and I do not mind the steep learning curve.
Never thought that a steering wheel can make this huge difference!
As a next step, I'll by Rfactor 1 this week maybe one simbin title, and he rest... who knows.
Will contact you when I will try out the things online..:)
Thanks again, hope to see you soon in the rear view mirror!


Freedom of speech is our birth right, but the privilege of being heard needs to be gained.
#3495993 - 01/16/12 06:24 PM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,812
JAMF Offline
Frugalite & P-38 fan
JAMF  Offline
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Posts: 3,812
The Netherlands
I would think twice about buying rFactor 1, with rFactor 2 in beta. But that's me. smile

#3496002 - 01/16/12 06:32 PM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 572
Ragtop Offline
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Ragtop  Offline
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Posts: 572
Kent, UK
I'd say it's still a great buy, people aren't all going to jump to rF2 when it comes out, so there's still going to be a great community to play with.

It's true what they all say though, it's really a modding base. I've downloaded a few mods for rFactor now, and I'm fast seeing why it's so popular. Since I downloaded Brands Hatch (My local) for it, along with a couple of other tracks, and the FSOne mod, I'm in love! I'm going to grab a couple of hillclimb tracks and a few classic cars to play with now.

I'm still a big fan of GTR Evo, but the huge online community for rFactor takes the cake in my books. Just gotta wait for my G27 to arrive and I can get online!

I'm also a flight simmer from the beginning, but I'm starting out with some assists on, and working my way out of them. With a keyboard there's a few you can't get away without, for instance traction control, you just can't get the power down smoothly on a keyboard because the gas is on or off!


[ CPU: i5 2500k @ 4.7gHz | MoBo: Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD3P | RAM: 16Gb Corsair Vengeance LP | GPU: OCUK GTX 980 Reference | OS: Win10 ]
[ H/W: LG 34UC97 | QPAD Mk-80 | Razer Deathadder | Logitech G27 + Nixim Mod | Warthog HOTAS | Saitek Combat Rudders | TIR5 | Rift CV1 ]
#3496730 - 01/17/12 08:29 PM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 845
mr_hill Offline
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mr_hill  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 845
good choice in wheel, Logitech always the way to go, i have the same wheel as you and it has taken a beating and still holds on! love it and wouldnt change it unless for a more expensive Logitech wheel!


First Ever Win: STCC, Donnington Park, Race 2, 19th March 2012
First Ever Podium: 2nd, Silverstone SCES 2011
First Ever Pole: Race 1, Thruxton, SSTCC, 8th April 2012
First Ever Fastest Lap: Le Mans, SCES, 3:59.028, 3rd June 2012
Wins: 3 (3 SSTCC)
Podiums: 10 (3 SCES, 7 SSTCC)
Pole Positions: 3 (1 SCES, 2 SSTCC)
Fastest Laps: 1 (1 SCES)

3rd Overall SSTCC Great Britain Series, 2012.

Team: Ozjet Racing
Number(s): 26 (SCES) 27 (STCC)
#3501495 - 01/23/12 09:51 AM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 796
Staniol Offline
Member
Staniol  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 796
Hungary
Hi everyone,
Just another short update.
I managed to buy race07 (was on sale in a local shop), the next day I bought Race on and Evo too.
This pushed my Rfactor purchase to next month (I do not even try to explain these things to my wife, for her food and bills are still more important, but being patient usually pays off).
I am having fun, and improving slowly.
Trying to drive the same car, and mainly online (currently Honda).
I am not brave enough to touch the car setup yet (apart from the fuel ammount), hell, I do not even understand half of the things I can find on that screen. Is there any manual for dummies out there?
Got used to the wheel and pedals, still changing the chair position in every 5 mins... but will be there slowly.
If they do not fix Cliffs of Dover in the next weeks, I am afraid I will be lost in this world.
Already afraid of Rfactor...

Thanks for all the suggestions and help so far!


Freedom of speech is our birth right, but the privilege of being heard needs to be gained.
#3501497 - 01/23/12 10:04 AM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 845
mr_hill Offline
Member
mr_hill  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 845
there is a setup tool over at Race2Play.com, just use the following link: http://www.race2play.com/special/setup_tool

Really handy, i wasn't much good at doing setups either, but this even though its not perfect it helps get a good solid base of a setup smile


First Ever Win: STCC, Donnington Park, Race 2, 19th March 2012
First Ever Podium: 2nd, Silverstone SCES 2011
First Ever Pole: Race 1, Thruxton, SSTCC, 8th April 2012
First Ever Fastest Lap: Le Mans, SCES, 3:59.028, 3rd June 2012
Wins: 3 (3 SSTCC)
Podiums: 10 (3 SCES, 7 SSTCC)
Pole Positions: 3 (1 SCES, 2 SSTCC)
Fastest Laps: 1 (1 SCES)

3rd Overall SSTCC Great Britain Series, 2012.

Team: Ozjet Racing
Number(s): 26 (SCES) 27 (STCC)
#3503797 - 01/26/12 08:08 AM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: mr_hill]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 796
Staniol Offline
Member
Staniol  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 796
Hungary
Hi,
thanks for the setup program.
I spent the last days on the same track alone in the same car (never thought that this can be exciting).
I am trying to put together a stable neutral car, which I can keep on the road even with minor errors I make sometimes.
The only problem I am facing is, that I cannot tell if my car is bottoming out or not.
Am I supposed to feel it or notice it somehow in Race07?


Freedom of speech is our birth right, but the privilege of being heard needs to be gained.
#3503801 - 01/26/12 08:30 AM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: mr_hill]  
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,468
SteveGee Offline
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SteveGee  Offline
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Posts: 1,468
Planet Earth
Originally Posted By: mr_hill
there is a setup tool over at Race2Play.com, just use the following link: http://www.race2play.com/special/setup_tool

Really handy, i wasn't much good at doing setups either, but this even though its not perfect it helps get a good solid base of a setup smile


While tools like that are handy to get started with, especially with the main components such as springs, ride height and differential settings, for example...they can also steer you wrong in some areas of fine tuning, such as dampers. You'll find a lot of the time it takes into consideration that you've got everything else spot-on perfect, which is not the case sometimes.

It is a good starting point, though and something everyone that's just starting out can really use...it's just no exchange for attempting to learn the physics of just what a car's setup settings actually do. There are tons of RL racing sitesand car physics theory sites that go into great detail about such things. Then, it takes time to try them out in whatever sim you're playing at the time....a lot of time. Hours of trial and error. That can be fun and a learning experience at the same time.

Now, having said all that....in every racing sims, you'll find people "gaming the game". Meaning, they will try every extreme setup tweak in that pursuit of those extra tenths to reach the top of a leaderboard. Running a front roll bar at 243lbs of force, with 41lbs of front spring rate, isn't something you would do in a RL 60's racecar at Spa...at least not do it and live too long, but you'll find those setups posted all over and accompanying 3:19 lap times from them in the hands of people that know how to use them.

That's just a part of sim racing.


"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it."
"Politicians are like dirty diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason."

Mark Twain

"I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every, single minute of it."
#3509136 - 02/02/12 01:15 AM Re: Sim Racing, how to start? [Re: Staniol]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 146
K_Cybulski Offline
Member
K_Cybulski  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 146
Hi all. I'm new here and was reading this thread. I am going to try getting into racing some as well. I have an S1 SRW wheel coming tomorrow.

I have played GPL and Papyrus Nascar and an F1 simulation, but this was a long time ago and never online. I'm unsure if I would like Nascar online but I think I'd like F1 and other similar type racing on road courses.

About how long did it take everyone to get "up to speed" where they don't spin out so much and don't crash so much?

I downloaded Raceroom2 and I played that some - it's free. I kind of like it. I'm thinking of trying iRacing as well. I guess I'm just looking for a good group of people who are mature and are also patient with someone who might not be as good as they are at first.

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