Please excuse me, gotta vent...

The Saturday before Christmas my wife and daughter were leaving to finish up with the Christmas shopping when she comes back in the house and tells me I need to come listen to the car because something doesn't sound right.
Opened the door and she's right, something didn't sound right and you could hear the rod knocking all the way from the driveway.
Checked the oil and it was dead on the full mark, no oil light and no error codes.
Since I've seen this particular movie before, with a different star but it ends the same way, I pull the thing into the shop knowing I'm gonna have to rebuild the engine.

The shop doesn't have much in the way of heat and it's been cold and/or raining as well as me having a prolonged sinus infection so I wasn't able to actually work on it till now.
Call around and nobody has an engine hoist for rent, it just keeps getting better and better all the time.
Get told by several professional mechanics to just buy a low mileage used engine and replace mine rather than rebuild it because the track record for rebuilds on this engine isn't all that good.
They do put in the qualifier that most of the bad rebuilds can be traced back to people not paying enough attention to detail during the rebuild so I might be ok, I'm something of a fanatic for details and they know this.

The problem seems to be one that stems from the factorie's engine build tolerances being too loose and the number 5 and 6 rod bearing not having enough oil pressure due to excessive bearing oil clearance.
So it's hit or miss as to how many miles you get out of these engine, if you get a tight engine you end up getting well over 200k miles with no problem or you might get 80k and a rod turns loose.

I'm NOT buying a crate engine since they cost almost as much as the car is worth.
A rebuild is going to cost a little over a grand, if I'm lucky, which seems to not be the case anymore, but a crate motor can cost 3 times that much.
I'm also not in a position to buy another car right now, but I won't get into that particular rant right now since I already have a "Rant In Progress".

Now for those who are going to suggest making soup cans out of the car and believe me, I wanted to as well, but I can't and there are a few good points.
This is an 01' model Pontiac Grand Prix GT with 142k miles, adult owned, locally bought, it's got all the goodies and gets surprisingly good gas mileage.
Got a stack of service records dating back to when the car was new and it's been well taken care of and regularly serviced at the dealership.
Everything works on the car just like new, it drives great, the ride is a little stiff due to the handling package but the thing is just plain fun to drive.


Ok, just had to vent so I'll get a broom and sweep up the mess now.

WOLF

Anytime...we're here for ya. Good luck.

Just out of curiosity, why would a rebuild cost so much?

My rant is, I had an Olds Alero (almost identical to your GP) 8 years it's been a dream. Never let me down, I took good care of it myself.

My wife has been bugging me to get rid of it, and finally found a buyer for it. Literally 5 minutes before the keys are handed over, it doesn't start. I traced it to a bad fuel pump. Trouble was, they had just had their old car towed and it's January, and I don't have time to drop a fuel tank. So $900 later, she was fixed.

What a pain in the butt. If it would have happened on a friday in decent weather, I could have got a used pump, and popped it in in one day. Cost of less than $100.

I love cars though. Not karma.

Crankshaft kit $200.00
Gasket Set $350.00
Head Gaskets $75.00
Rings $100.00
Valve Job $100.00
Machine Shop Misc. 200.00

The above is for top quality parts and I figure add another $200.00 for the stuff I've forgotten.

WOLF

Thanks Wolf,

When it comes to cars I always think a few parts and elbow grease will fix it.

I turn out to be wrong quite often

Try LKQ, I have purchased some engines before.....

LKQ

SlackAdjuster

Damn, 3k for the Crate engine out of a Gram Am GT.

I drove an 00' Grand Prix GTP before I bought my GTI (traded for a vowel ), and the 3.8L 3800 Series II/III was $3k also. Those engines might as well power tanks (It's the same architecture used in the F-Body based V8s, with two cylinders chopped off, and a supercharger bolted on top) Doesn't make sense that GM would crank up the price on a smaller engine.

Only thing I can think of that's jacking up the cost of your engine (or dropping down the 3.8) is that the 3.6 wasn't as widely used. the 3800 saw action (sans blow-job) in everything from Detroit's vision of a sport sedan, the Bonneville, to the GM Minivan line.

what about a Remanufactured engine??

Hey Wolf...
Good luck.
I'm an Auto Tech (30yrs)
pm me if you need Alldata specs or anything.

Engine overhauls are really not that bad to do as long as you PAY attention...
Good tip:
Use your cell and take a few pics before you start to help when putting it all back together
(may save alot of head scratching on certain connectors, vacuum lines,wiring, etc)

Exactly what is included In that 200 dollar crank kit?
Just standard bearings right?

Be prepared...(remember its already knocking)

You may find (Only *AFTER* tearing it apart) that there may be too much damage done to the crank.
Measure it yourself /send it to the machine shop and they will let you know if it is salvagable...

So in addition to the parts listed above you may end up spending more $$ getting the affected crank journals machined.
As long as it can be machined.
Also, you will need to get different sized bearings on the affected (now undersized) journals.
Check and make sure the crank kit you are buying comes with over/under sized bearings.

The crankshaft kit is a regrind that includes crank with Clevite rod and main bearings.
I'm figuring the worst case, like you said it's already knocking so I figure the thing spun a rod bearing and the crank is already damaged.
This is a Series II 3800 and the best price I could get for a rebuilt crate motor with a decent guarantee from a place with good reviews, including freight charges, was almost 3k.
Getting it new from GM was going to be even higher.
I'm told the roller cam and lifters on these things seldom give any problems so I may be able to reuse them, I hope so since that'll save me about 400 dollars.
Looks like I'm gonna have to build a rig to pull the engine with since none of the guys I know that used to build engines has a engine hoist anymore.
Oh well, it'll get done but I figure it's already stopped being fun.

WOLF

Are you on any Pontiac forums? Might find a donor engine or car there, or ebay. Might find something close enough to make the trip worthwhile.
At least it's something you feel you can tackle.

I hate cars, too.

That's why I drive a truck!

I'm on a couple of Pontiac and Grand Prix forums, got some generous offers but they are too far away to pick up, looked on eBay and they have several engines but most of them have over 100k miles and the cheapest was 600 bucks plus freight.

LOL! Be careful Dart, I'm close enough to hand deliver some bad karma to you. I'm right next door to Gadsden.

Oh well, gotta go start working on the wreck I guess, it ain't gonna be fun but I bet it'll be interesting.

WOLF

Good luck with it. That's more than I've got the energy or knowledge to tackle. LOL
It's a cool car though, and worth reviving.

I don't hate cars. I hate the people driving them. Or engaging in an activity which for lack of a better term is deemed "driving" but is more like "merely failing to collide with anything at a high rate of speed."



The Jedi Master

Yeah, guess I should have said I hate doing major auto repairs.
This will definately be a learning experience, I've built a lot of engines over the years but not one of these and never a front wheel drive.
I started doing more research yesterday and on the advice of the folks at the GP Forum I went to, of all places, a high performance company and they had the high end FelPro gasket set for less than $150.00 bucks.
I call Standard Crankshaft Company this afternoon and talked to their tech guy and he said they gaurantee their regrinds to be within .0002 of the low end of the journal specs. and the micro polish is at least twice as good as the factory finish.
They also supply Clevite 77 main and rod bearings with their kits, which are some of, if not, the best bearings you can get.
Price on the Crank kit with shipping is $205.00 and they pay the return shipping on the core.
I'm starting to feel a little better about this now that I have some numbers to work with which aren't as bad as I was expecting.
Hopefully I'll have the engine out by the weekend and can see just how much damage their really is.

WOLF

I bit the bullet a couple years ago and got a new Dodge Charger along with the factory lifetime bumper-to-bumper warranty ($1800 more). Anything that goes wrong with it for as long as I own it will cost $100 per repair. Since I typically drive my cars for +10 years this seems like a pretty good deal to me.

My '92 Corvette cost >$9000 in repairs over 9 years - leaks, brakes, A/C, tranny - twice!, and it sat in the garage most of the time since I worked from home. Frackin cars!


G/l on the repairs.

I've switched out a few engines, one was a tear down and repair, the others were rebuilds. Not too many left over parts...

WC


Faceman said, "What you drive is what you project."