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#3495412 - 01/15/12 09:31 AM
Tebow and the Amish...
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Successor to Bill the Cat!
Hotshot
Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 5872
Loc: Quantum Superstate
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I'm having a little trouble understanding something. I'm an agnostic pluralist. I think all the world's religions contain some truth and that, as Krishna said, when true religion declines God sends somebody to the particular area of the world where the problem is to straighten things out, hence all the different religions. But I do not believe that the complete truth is available on this planet except on an individual basis as the Supreme Being sees fit. Anyway, so now I'm seeing Tim Tebow, the Denver Broncos' player who seems to have become the darling of a large portion of the Christian community. In all sincerity and not trying to snipe or start something, has anyone in the Christian community actually read the Bible? I have, and in it, Jesus is portrayed as saying: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." - Matthew 6:5-6 How do you reconcile Tebow with that? Instead of embracing him, should the Christian community not be outraged because he's flagrantly disobeying orders from The Skipper? And what about the Amish, Mennonites, Super Pentecostals and all the other sects that choose to wear unusual clothing and so forth? Does that not draw just the sort of attention that Jesus preached against? You may as well pray on the street corner, and yet everyone I know except me seems to hold the Amish in particular esteem for their perceived holiness. I just think they're weird and haven't read the Bible they claim to believe in, much like Tebow. So if we could discuss this mystery without anyone getting hysterical, and no one using it as an opportunity to grind their particular axe, remaining mature and sensitive to others, am I missing something here? Are these public displays of piety all right, or do they, as I see it, violate the tenets of the Christianity that the violators profess? Cheers! Rick... 
_________________________
"We are extending ourselves in Space and Time not because of capitalism or socialism but in spite of them. The Right/Left Capitalist/Socialist establishments are psychologically unprepared for our emerging situation in Time and Space." - F. M. Esfandiary, Upwingers
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#3495431 - 01/15/12 09:56 AM
Re: Tebow and the Amish...
[Re: Sauron]
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Member
Registered: 08/10/00
Posts: 1707
Loc: Vancouver BC Canada
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Rick, Rick, Rick.....  Have you forgotten? Squatting Monkeys Tell No Lies!  "I could'a been the lemon." JC the skipper? I was think'in first mate. 
_________________________
"It's not about the money Son, It's about rules. You see without rules we all might as well live in trees and fling our crap at each other."
Red Foreman on That 70's Show
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#3495432 - 01/15/12 09:56 AM
Re: Tebow and the Amish...
[Re: Sauron]
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Senior Member
Registered: 12/24/01
Posts: 4146
Loc: Earth
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Well back in the day the Amish weren't wearing particularly unusual clothing. They just froze "normal", while we have a new fashion craze every other day. From their viewpoint we wear some downright unusual articles. Just think, when you see some hideous "creation" making it's way down the runway at the latest fashion show, that could well be what you or I look like to them. 
_________________________
Suicide is man's way of telling god "You can't fire me, I quit!"
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#3495436 - 01/15/12 10:05 AM
Re: Tebow and the Amish...
[Re: Sauron]
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Hotshot
Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 7251
Loc: St. Cloud MN USA
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"Thou mayest sing the praises of the One Who gives all to thou and thine, but beware of the multitudes which shall callest thou and thine as the Spawn of the Satan and which gives to all meaning that which is Unknowable and Unknowable forever. BUT, if thou willist repent thine Pride and thine Fierceness to the lilys of the fields and the sparrows of the air, thou willst have thine eyes opened to the shine of the World and all that Is In It, and all that Is Not In It."
The DuderRomeney, Chapter 7, verse 15
Sorry, but there are so many different Gods, and so many different ideas as to what He wants of us, and what He gives us, that I think it's pretty much a crap shoot if you happened to be born into The One True Religion. I believe in Something, I Know (through experience), that there is "something" I can connect to, but I'll be dammed if I could either explain it to anyone, or tell you how to get there.
I do know it comes from inside, and connects to the ALL, whatever that may be.
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The road goes on forever...... and the party never ends.
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#3495503 - 01/15/12 12:26 PM
Re: Tebow and the Amish...
[Re: Li'lJugs]
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Member
Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 1811
Loc: Newcastle Upon Tyne, England.
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I love the Amish, they're cool.  Watched a series recently on channel 4 UK called 'Living with the Amish', and I find their simple living/hard work ethos and complete rejection of crass materialism refreshing. They are kind people who actually live by the New Covenant, and are closer to Christ IMO than 99% of the self absorbed, hypocritical, almost pathologically judgmental BS artists (particularly politicians) who claim to be 'Christians' whilst ruthlessly f*cking over anyone who gets in their way or interferes with their Worship of and pursuit of Mammon. The Amish are 'in the world, but not of it'. I dig that.  That said, there are modernist factions too, who pimp their buggies with 'Ferrari' decals and have touch screen laptops inside their rides, which I found amusing.  'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.', a wise Mahatma (Great Soul) once said. Harsh I feel, as I happen to know many good Christians who are extremely selfless and kind, showing generosity of Spirit, but sadly a great many do not. 'Me, Me, Me'.  Agnostic myself, but I do feel that some of the Philosophical arguments have merit (teleological, cosmological etc) and I believe in what I perceive to be the message of Christ and others, not necessarily organised religion itself which has caused more bother than it is worth IMO. There is probably a kernel of truth in them all, or at very least that truth pertaining to the Human Condition and our yearning for meaning and sense of purpose. Christs 'Sermon on the mount' is one of the greatest Ethical statements there has ever been. Shame nobody really pays it any attention...because if they did, the world would be a better place. The message is hardly unique to Christianity however, even the 'golden rule'. Many faiths and belief systems have their version, going back thousands of years BC in the case of Hinduism for example, it even appears in Zoroastrianism, and the 'Analects' of Confucius. The Creation myth and in particular the 'Flood Myth' occurs in many other cultures too, going back to Antiquity. The theme is one of rebirth and renewal. I think it illustrates our commonality and need to make sense of things through symbology, allegory and metaphor. Human beings are natural born storytellers, its what we do. Meh, we'll all find out one day. Just try to be a decent Human being and see what happens (or not as the case may be) is my Credo, and 'live and let live' I say. Right, all this metaphysical malarkey and existential angst has given me sore noggin. Soren Kierkegaard has a lot to answer for, never should have read 'Fear and trembling'. I'm off to sink a few beers and listen to some John Martyn instead lol. PS the Amish still rule though. When I grow up one day I'm going to cultivate a mentalist 'bodacious beard' and be just like them. Who needs computers anyway, eh? They're shyte.
_________________________
"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals".
Sir Winston Churchill
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#3495505 - 01/15/12 12:27 PM
Re: Tebow and the Amish...
[Re: Sauron]
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Veteran
Registered: 04/15/02
Posts: 13361
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The DuderRomeney, Chapter 7, verse 15 Quote from "The Dude Romney"? - But I thought he was a Mormon?
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#3495533 - 01/15/12 01:57 PM
Re: Tebow and the Amish...
[Re: Biggles07]
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Hotshot
Registered: 12/31/00
Posts: 7251
Loc: St. Cloud MN USA
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I love the Amish, they're cool. Watched a series recently on channel 4 UK called 'Living with the Amish', and I find their simple living/hard work ethos and complete rejection of crass materialism refreshing. They are kind people who actually live by the New Covenant, and are closer to Christ IMO than 99% of the self absorbed, hypocritical, almost pathologically judgmental BS artists (particularly politicians) who claim to be 'Christians' whilst ruthlessly f*cking over anyone who gets in their way or interferes with their Worship of and pursuit of Mammon. The Amish are 'in the world, but not of it'. I dig that. That said, there are modernist factions too, who pimp their buggies with 'Ferrari' decals and have touch screen laptops inside their rides, which I found amusing. 'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.', a wise Mahatma (Great Soul) once said. Harsh I feel, as I happen to know many good Christians who are extremely selfless and kind, showing generosity of Spirit, but sadly a great many do not. 'Me, Me, Me'. Agnostic myself, but I do feel that some of the Philosophical arguments have merit (teleological, cosmological etc) and I believe in what I perceive to be the message of Christ and others, not necessarily organised religion itself which has caused more bother than it is worth IMO. There is probably a kernel of truth in them all, or at very least that truth pertaining to the Human Condition and our yearning for meaning and sense of purpose. Christs 'Sermon on the mount' is one of the greatest Ethical statements there has ever been. Shame nobody really pays it any attention...because if they did, the world would be a better place. The message is hardly unique to Christianity however, even the 'golden rule'. Many faiths and belief systems have their version, going back thousands of years BC in the case of Hinduism for example, it even appears in Zoroastrianism, and the 'Analects' of Confucius. The Creation myth and in particular the 'Flood Myth' occurs in many other cultures too, going back to Antiquity. The theme is one of rebirth and renewal. I think it illustrates our commonality and need to make sense of things through symbology, allegory and metaphor. Human beings are natural born storytellers, its what we do. Meh, we'll all find out one day. Just try to be a decent Human being and see what happens (or not as the case may be) is my Credo, and 'live and let live' I say. Right, all this metaphysical malarkey and existential angst has given me sore noggin. Soren Kierkegaard has a lot to answer for, never should have read 'Fear and trembling'. I'm off to sink a few beers and listen to some John Martyn instead lol. PS the Amish still rule though. When I grow up one day I'm going to cultivate a mentalist 'bodacious beard' and be just like them. Who needs computers anyway, eh? They're shyte. Usually hate people who quote long quotes, but this deserves it, IMO. +1
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The road goes on forever...... and the party never ends.
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#3495539 - 01/15/12 02:05 PM
Re: Tebow and the Amish...
[Re: Sauron]
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Member
Registered: 01/09/11
Posts: 250
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has anyone in the Christian community actually read the Bible? Well, you have to consider that: 1) The majority of Christians didn't read the bible. 2) Of those who actually read it, many just pay attention to ideas that fit their lives and discard the rest. 3) Of those who actually read it, and actually pay attention to everything the bible says, you'll get a lot of different opinion on the actual meaning of what it says. Religions are philosophical, so everybody kind of elaborates their one ideas and concepts. For a non-religious person it just doesn't make any sense, but for a believer, it is the most logical of things. The bible in particular (I couldn't talk about other religions) has tons of, for the lack of a better word, inconsistencies. Somehow people has to deal with them, the result of that is the notion that everyone brings his own ideas into the religion itself. Have you wondered why there are so many different branches within Christianity? Like Mormons, Lutherans, etc.? Well, precisely because different people had different ideas of what the word of the Lord was, and they ended up creating a new Church. It it the same with lots of things about Christianity, actually. Think on condoms or vaccination. The bible doesn't say anything about them because, obviously, there were no condoms or vaccination back in the day when the scripts were written. But people need guidance, that's the whole point of having the bible. So how do they find what's the deal with condoms? Well, they... they... erm... (Ah! My freaking non-native English is failing my here ) they have to discuss the topic and arrive to a good and solid conclusion, and they do that by just bringing their own POVs to the mix.
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Just like the real Wile E., more problems that solutions lately.
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#3495547 - 01/15/12 02:21 PM
Re: Tebow and the Amish...
[Re: Sauron]
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Contributing Editor
ArmA2 Player!
Veteran
Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 13540
Loc: Texas, USA
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Well some interesting points, Rick. Not a football fan, didn't know who Tebow was until I saw items about his actions appearing in my news browsing. For reasons you mention, plus a good number of others, what he does isn't something I'd choose to do. I'm not going to get all negative on the guy. If I were going to throw stones based on those principles, you can imagine how the very broad the range of targets must become (Re: other poster comments above).
Any Christian can attempt to justify nearly anything they choose. Myself and the Amish included.
Regarding the Amish, I don't have a complete understanding of their beliefs. There would appear to be a melding of religious and cultural bedrocks which contributes to the situations you mention. One could conceivably ask the same about wearing a suit and tie to the corner church on Sunday.
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WARNING: This post may not bear appropriate warning labels, a noncriminal illegal omission. SimmersPaintShop.com - Skinning Forums, Tutorials, and Downloads for Simulation Fans.
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#3495687 - 01/15/12 06:40 PM
Re: Tebow and the Amish...
[Re: Sauron]
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Senior Member
Registered: 09/05/01
Posts: 4865
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Amish folk are pretty much like you and I. In fact they are usually a little more sinful. But their hard work ethics and living off the land are good qualities to have. If a nuclear war hits, the only thing left will be cockroaches, and the amish.
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