To keep Wicked's screenshot thread clean. Do you consider SB Pro PE too expensive? If so, why? Think it is appropriately priced? Explain!

Appropriately priced ...as mentioned before in detail...


Excellent game that can be played SP, MP, co-op... all in 1 tank, 1 platoon, 1 company...etc etc

Can be played as an RTS in map view, can be played as driver and AI do the rest, as gunner and AI do the rest, as TC and AI do the rest...

Comes with a map editor and a mission editor...

Point is SB Pro PE can be played in many different ways, different configs, different modes... very very versatile game/sim.


Now to compare the price... as mentioned before...

EA Sport game... for example: Tiger Woods Golf... yearly edition 60 bucks, 12 golf courses over a year at 10 bucks each... each year repeat.

Call of Duty game... yearly edition 60 bucks, map packs totaling 3 or 4 in that year at 15 bucks each.

iRacing... 100 bucks a year plus you buy extra cars and tracks...

and so on and so on...

Sure... you can find a game... like ArmA2 that will last for years... 40 bucks, and 3 add-ons so far for a cost. But still within 5 years another version would come, (ArmA3 coming this year).

Any of these dumb pay to play... IE: WoW, WoT, etc etc... hundreds a year probally...


So the bottom line is and what you need to ask yourself... 1) how many other modern armor combat games are out or coming, 2)how much do you plan on playing it 3)will you get your monies worth... if your like me, and many others 125 bucks is a damn good price for what we get... if NOT, if you won't play so often, if you'll get bored of it in 2 months, or the cost is just too much (then what are you playing now anyway?)... then the answer is no.

So no one can tell you if it's worth it... you got to tell yourself if it's worth it by doing research on the product, reading reviews, reading AAR's...etc etc...

BUT just because I, and many like me, think it's worth it... doesn't give anyone a right to #%&*$# and complain about the price in every thread that comes up about it.

Sure, you can come up with good arguments against buying it... then thats fine... your lost of some great gaming... go back too what... Tank Platoon 2 from 10 years ago via GOG?

lol

IMO

I have played the sim for about half a decade now (since it came out), I have played many hundreds, perhaps thousands of hours with it. If you go for a "value per hour" basis then it is rather cheap (even with the updates). The cost is in the realm of cents as opposed to dollars. There are some sims and games out there that cost something like 50 dollars, but where you get only some hours worth of entertainment from it. So in terms of this SB isn't that expensive.

Then there is the realm of cost per vehicle available, which is much lower than with DCS

I too find it appropriately priced, as I too have owned for many years. I can the hesitation by some just getting started, but I find their business model to be commendable. Admittedly, I was hesitant to buy their first patch/add on, as most previous titles offered their patches for free, but after seeing the labor of detail and accuracy, I was from then on hooked on the business model. I find their current practice little different from others DLC offers, but with greater fidelity of detail and more in depth.

My only two complaint, is no campaign, but as has been pointed out, there is the ability to link multiple single scenarios into a quasi campaign of sorts. The other, would be more Soviet crewable armor, to make for some great BLUFOR/OPFOR multiplayer scenarios.

And as Magnum has pointed out, I have thousands of dollars invested in FSX alone. It's beyond a game, it's an indepth simulation. So, $100.00 (or $85.00 for latest discounts) is nothing compared to others. Matter of fact, in World of Tank, I bet I've sunk more than a few hundred dollars.

Matt

Alibi fire....a true Stryker and it's multiude of variants would be really cool too...but I'm biased.

I'll paraphrase my post in the other thread for brevity.

Premise: Black Shark, Falcon, A-10C, FSX, Skyrim, COD, CIV 5 are titles which deliver levels of entertainment value and complexity similar to Steel Beasts at sub-$60 prices.

Let's examine these examples in detail. FSX? IIRC cost more like $75 originally and evidently did not generate satisfactory sales, leading Microsoft to disband the development team - Flight will now be based on a completely different business model (free-to-play + paid DLC). Falcon? Put its original developer out of business and is only still alive thanks to non-profit efforts of community enthusiasts. Skyrim, COD, CIV 5? MUCH larger potential market, so development cost can be spread over a vastly bigger number of sales. Black Shark, A-10C? Some may argue with this, but there are indications that the business model which ED planned for the DCS series is simply not working out. Longer than anticipated development cycles appear to have forced them to charge for products which they originally hoped to offer for free and broaden their product range (DCS Flying Legends) so they get revenue on a more regular basis.

All indications are that a price of $60 (let alone less) is unsustainable in the long term for a complex, high-quality game targeted at a niche market (these are TWO separate attributes and both contribute).

I think it is appropriately priced. Haven't bought my copy yet, but I'm going to buy it in next few months. They are growing, improving their product, and surviving on the market. That's something.

Ssnake is actively and honestly talking to his community. That's also very important.

I'm not sure if it makes sense to directly compare a title like Skyrim with SB Pro. Of course, if you look at it strictly from an entertainment point of view, it's a valid position, and if you're just looking for pure entertainment, by all means go and buy Skyrim. It's a fantastic deal there - great graphics, just $60.-, and potentially also hundreds of hours of gameplay if you want to discover the entire world there. I had tremendous fun with Fallout 3 (another huge time sink), and I suppose that Skyrim is somewhat comparable in concept (though the setting is totally different etc.).

This is why I say that the value is in the eye of the beholder. Because if you want to educate yourself about contemporary armored combat vehicles, SB Pro is rather unique. While other games may also offer "simulation goodness", none of the examples that you mentioned allow you a first-hand in-detail experience of battle tanks and IFVs. If on the other hand you don't care about what kind of a machine you control as long as it is modern and technical and in a combat environment, one of those flight simulators may be a better deal. I just doubt that there is anyone using these outlandish metrics for purchase decisions.
You want to do some (virtual) flying, so you go and pick a flight sim. Or you're interested in armor, then there's the choice between a number of WW2 tank games, some 1st person shooters that also let you board something that resembles tanks if you squint your eyes real hard, and press your fingers on your ears singing "Nananananana I can't hear you nananananana". Then there's Blaze of War, or Balkans on Fire which I'd consider real contenders even though their focus is different so that they aren't completely interchangeable - but still, probably the titles that come closest to a directly comparable tile if your focus is more on entertainment.

Whatever floats your boat. But I think that SB Pro has a number of world-exclusive elements. Is there any other simulation for infantry fighting vehicles? Or mobile gun systems like the Centauro? How many other titles are there that have a reasonably faithful replication of the Leopard 2 family fire control system? How many other titles are out there that offer a comparable real-time constructive simulation/tactical wargame with contemporary equipment?


If you say that you aren't really that much interested in all this, then I will wholeheartedly agree: Steel Beasts isn't made for you.
Then again, you wrote that you're on the fence for a couple of years, so you probably have some interest in these things. In that case I say, there isn't anything better. It really depends on what metrics you apply to determine the value of SB Pro; only you can know what is important for you, and decide on that basis whether or not eSim Games is offering a sweet deal or not. They could try to pay me for playing "The Sims", I still wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

We've decided that we want at least $100.- for SB Pro PE in its current configuration without printed user manual and digital installation file distribution, and up to $125.- with everything. Suppose we would reduce the price to $40.-, I'd still have to enter this very same discussion, just with someone else whose price point would be $30.- or less. We are fully aware that a three-digit price (even at the lower end of the spectrum) is a bit of a deterrence. That's intentional though it may be counter-intuitive. We want customers who are really interested in the subject matter. Everyone with serious interest will still investigate what SB Pro offers.
There will be no impulse buys, yes. But also no negative surprises about what SB Pro is and what it doesn't attempt to be. After having put so much money on the table, people will invest some of their time to work themselves into the subject matter. Which is an absolutely essential prerequisite to actually have a lot of fun with it. Our price point generates fewer, but happier customers. And customer satisfaction is one of the cornerstones on which the company was founded and is still resting. I like to surprise people positively. In a marketing campaign, I will reveal most, but not everything that is new in a new version. So that if people are already convinced that an update is worth the try, they always find something extra that sweetens the deal.

But you have to make that initial leap of faith. I could argue that anyone who already owns a PC for entertainment purposes has demonstrated that he has disposable income for unnecessary luxury items (and let's be honest, computer games are just that, a luxury). And I'm not ashamed to ask for a luxury price. But I will also tell you that I have come from very modest beginnings. I know very well the value of every single dollar. I will never tell you that $100.- are small change even though most of our customers probably make more on a single day's work. Even then, four or five hours of work are nothing to treat with disrespect. All I can say is that we at eSim Games work long hours too, to honor that leap of faith that every one of our customers had to do at least once; to honor it with the very best work that we can possibly deliver. In the last twelve months we created four new jobs, doubled our programming capacity, and invested a six-digit sum into stuff that will help to further boost our productivity and the value of subsequent Steel Beasts releases. I'm not asking you to "support a worthy cause" or to buy SB Pro PE just to send a signal to keep independent developers alive, or some sob story. I'm just asking for an open mind about our product's qualities:

Here's our product. This is what we want for it. I'm here to tell you everything you need to know to make an informed decision, and I will respect a "Thanks but no thanks" as much as I will be happy about a purchase decision. My promise is, that there will be no negative surprises if you care to have a closer look at it. At SteelBeasts.com there is a Tech Support discussion board with all the dirty laundry there is. Look at the customer complaints, look at our responses, and draw your own conclusions. There is nothing that we have to hide.

Ssnake please do not take this as a personnel attack. But eSim Games does a horrible job of advertising Steel Beast. It is VERY difficult for someone to understand what Steel Beasts offers. You ask us what other sim offers the features Steel Beast offers? ("Is there any other simulation for infantry fighting vehicles? Or mobile gun systems like the Centauro? How many other titles are there that have a reasonably faithful replication of the Leopard 2 family fire control system? How many other titles are out there that offer a comparable real-time constructive simulation/tactical wargame with contemporary equipment?") You don't even tell people YOU guys offer these features. So how can you expect people to make a comparison? Would you buy a car that cost 250 percent of what other cars cost if you did not even know what features the car offered?

This is how Steel Beasts is advertised.

Tank Sim $125.

Not very descriptive is it?

If you really want to communicate what Steel Beasts offers and don't want disappointed impulse buy customers do what makes sense. Offer a demo.

Nothing major. Say 1 tank and a small map.

Or at least make an effort to inform people what Steel Beast is all about.

That proposed limited demo - by definition - could not show the full scope. ...and my point was, though maybe not eloquently phrased, that SB Pro is about richness; many, many different contemporary military vehicles with high fidelity replications of their fire control systems; many, many scenarios to play; many tactical variables to consider.

How and where did you hear about SB Pro?
What made you think enough about it that you actually bothered enough to come here and tell me that our marketing is horrible?
Have you looked at the Steel Beasts channel at YouTube and checked out the videos that we made?
Did you (gasp) ... google it?
Have you read the reviews here at SimHQ, at Tanksim.com, or even bothered to visit SteelBeasts.com to check out the "Game Info" tab and the corresponding Wiki?
If you did, and if what you saw there didn't change your assessment that Steel Beasts is more than "a tank sim", how could a demo possibly change that impression, especially if it featured one of the more popular vehicles like the M1 or Leopard 2?

You can download and install Steel Beasts Pro PE for free, and if you find another user on the discussion board at SteelBeasts.com to borrow you a license (which is possible), you can play. So there - no demo, but you can try the full game (you just depend on others not pulling the plug while you play).

I'm not sure that eSim will get too many impulse buyers with their current asking price.

I have a great interest in the subject matter,having played tank sims for 20+ years now,yet it took me years to make the decision to buy it.
Price was a big factor that held me off making the purchase.
The other was a lack (at the time) of decent modern armoured simulations.

If I am going to fork out $125 for a game I am certainly going to 'research' the hell out of it.
Forums,reviews and youtube are my main tools to help me make a decision.

I'm trying to think what the average SB Pro buyer is like....

They have played tank sims for years.
They watch all tank related goodness on Discovery.
They know all the best tank related films.
They have tank related paraphernalia dotted about their 'man cave'.
They may even have served for real in the armed forces.
They almost certainly have quite a few tank sims in their collection.

As for the price?
For me worth every penny.
It may cost 2-3 times more than an 'A' grade titled game,but it's still on my hard disc.Countless dozens of other purchases are not.

You been spyin on me ?

Simple, you get what you pay for, there just isnt another Land Warfare/Armour sim like it. certainly no other PC based simulation
that is so engaged with its customers/player/friends/community and absolutely nothing comes close to the time Ive spent engrossed in SB, be it fighting battles, making scenarios or editing skins. Worth the outlay ? Hell yeah !

1.How and where did you hear about SB Pro?

2.What made you think enough about it that you actually bothered enough to come here and tell me that our marketing is horrible?

3.Have you looked at the Steel Beasts channel at YouTube and checked out the videos that we made?

4. Did you (gasp) ... google it?

5.Have you read the reviews here at SimHQ, at Tanksim.com, or even bothered to visit SteelBeasts.com to check out the "Game Info" tab and the corresponding Wiki? If you did, and if what you saw there didn't change your assessment that Steel Beasts is more than "a tank sim", how could a demo possibly change that impression, especially if it featured one of the more popular vehicles like the M1 or Leopard 2?

6.You can download and install Steel Beasts Pro PE for free, and if you find another user on the discussion board at SteelBeasts.com to borrow you a license (which is possible), you can play. So there - no demo, but you can try the full game (you just depend on others not pulling the plug while you play).

1.I heard about Steel Beast looking in the SimHQ forums for a tank sim. Ironically it was DCS Black Shark that got me interested in tank warfare (I wanted to see how the other side felt, the other side of my shkval that is).

2.I say your marketing is horrible because it is. When you visit the Steel Beast website you have nice videos sure. But I have seen nice videos of truly awful games. When you click game info it does not share features it only tells you system requirements. So the only way to get any information about it is to pour through the forums. I thought to come here to say something because I think you probably have a great product and it is unfortunate lack of easily available information is probably costing you sales. Videos are ok but you should highlight features with text as well.

3.I have watched Steel Beast on Youtube. I was not aware Steel Beast had its own Youtube channel. Video is not a substitute for gameplay. Again, you can make a mess of a game look great by editing video. I think anyone who buys games can attest to that. It does partially communicate some features. Text would be better to advertise these though.

4.Sure did. That's how I found your site.

5.I did read the reviews at SimHQ. I did read about Steel Beast at Tanksim.com (I do not remember if it was an official review or not) When you click game info it does not share features it only tells you system requirements.I was not aware of a Steel Beast Wiki. I revisited your site and saw it on the left side (I checked it out, it is good). Maybe your right about the Demo.

6. Isn't this like stealing your game? Maybe I do not understand the mechanics of it. Is it like a guest pass?

I would like to commend you on making yourself available for questions and debate on SimHQ forums. Your really making yourself part of the community.

Regarding 2:

In the game info menu, there is a submenu there. It has the SB Wiki, and a page called features. While not a totally exhaustive list, it does give some idea of the vehicles included and what is playable. The SB Wiki goes into more detail about how the playable vehicles work. You must be an exception to the rule - I think lists of features will attract almost no one, videos of gameplay and aars are what sucks people in. I have yet to think of a good way to condense SB into a few paragraphs of text. Anything longer than that will exceed the attention span of most people and be a waste.

Regarding 6:

Licenses can be shared over the internet. Many people have several spare licenses available on their system for loaning out to people who want to try the sim or for family members. On your end, you would have to install the game and the codemeter runtime to borrow them.

Figured I'd weigh in on this since I spent about a month researching before purchasing it last week. Been playing it quite a bit since, though mostly tutorials and some of the simpler scenarios. I was in your position almost exactly -interest sparked by Black Shark, initially incredulous at the cost, etc.

1.How and where did you hear about SB Pro?
SimHQ

3.Have you looked at the Steel Beasts channel at YouTube and checked out the videos that we made?
Yes. At initial pass they are not that impressive as the charm of the sim is in the game play and not the graphics. I learned the most about game play from the AARs such as Brave Rifles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9tPvJoCZLg and more recently, the T-72 AAR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLIhnjZFQ0M . Neither of these pops up on the first page when I searched youtube. In fact, I got a collection of some really old, pre-PE stuff and a hodge-podge of three year old stuff of varying quality.

What I would have liked to have seen there was a few short (maybe two minute) video blurbs on what is special about the sim. An example of using the Map view, an overview of the playable vehicles and the unplayable vehicles. Perhaps a 15second teaser for 3 of the best scenarios, with narration.

5.Have you read the reviews here at SimHQ, at Tanksim.com, or even bothered to visit SteelBeasts.com to check out the "Game Info" tab and the corresponding Wiki? If you did, and if what you saw there didn't change your assessment that Steel Beasts is more than "a tank sim"
actually it took me a little longer than you'd expect for me to figure that out. After all, the videos don't explain that you can command at a higher level, somewhat like the Take Command ACW games, or the complexity and power of the waypoint and route system.

They also don't explain what level of detail you get in the vehicles. Is it switchology like Black Shark? Lighter like IL2? Procedural sim vs Zeitgeist sim? Turns out the technical details of operating the vehicles are mostly glossed over and a lot of the interesting complexity is in the Tank Commandeer and higher role - it's like multiplayer Combat Mission crossed with Red Orchestra, adding on a layer of Take Command Bull Run.

how could a demo possibly change that impression, especially if it featured one of the more popular vehicles like the M1 or Leopard 2?
Personally, I think if esim or SimHQ sponsored an 'free' online event once or twice a year that would be better than a demo. You could lend a limited number free licenses for 10 days so people could try the tutorials, then run a noobs online coop game. It really takes doing the tuts and reading the manual to understand the thought behind the game.
You could offer this to SimHQ members only and encourage people to chat on teamspeak to get a grip on the game.

6.You can download and install Steel Beasts Pro PE for free, and if you find another user on the discussion board at SteelBeasts.com to borrow you a license (which is possible), you can play. So there - no demo, but you can try the full game (you just depend on others not pulling the plug while you play).
This is what convinced me to purchase, a fellow simhqer lent me a license for a week. This is a great seller, so long as you have the kind souls around to offer you a borrowed license.
The ability to add up to 7 more licenses at $25 each so friends of mine can play as well was an understated yet essential plus. There was no way I was going to convince them to spend $100 for this, but me offering them a license to borrow might entice them.

I should add Ssnakes detailed responses to my questions showed a high level of support.

pakfront I think you and I are on the same page. You covered some of the things I thought but did not elaborate on. By the way do you belong to a DCS/FC flight squad. What is your tag? Funny how DCS: Black Shark has lead 2 people to interest in Steel Beast.

All right, you raise a couple of valid points.

For what it's worth, I think SBProPE is worth the price. I bought it initially almost six years ago (give or take... it's been six or so years) and gave away my license (along with every other game and computer) during a big life change. I recently bought the game again, and while I haven't sunk a whole lot of time into it on this second go, it is still worth it to me.

I think the problem with the price point for the average gamer is more of a problem with the state of tank games/simulations than anything else. Today you've got a choice of World of Tanks and SBProPE for a tank sim - though you might be able to squeeze in BF3 and RO2 into there. WoT is a fun game, and free, and designed for lay-people to play with tanks (I call it 'Counter Strike for Tanks'). SBProPE is a sim - a hardcore sim - and, comparative to other games, expensive. It's core audience are the people who know how to fight tanks and maneuver on a modern battlefield already - vets, tank nuts, etc. There are few, if any, casual gamers in the SBProPE community. There is no happy medium in the field (and, no, I don't think the Graviteam sims qualify for a non-Russian audience - I have both sims and while I enjoy them for the most part, I can't recommend them to my gamer and tanker friends yet).

I think the success of World of Tanks shows that there is a good, unsatisfied market for tank games, but there needs to be some kind of bridge between the game and the sim extremes. We need another M1 Tank Platoon II or Panzer Elite (or MS Flight Simulator for tanks) - a game that is accessible and fun for the average gamers but also has fidelity to the vehicles it portrays and the battles/campaigns you fight to please the hard core.

I've actually been tinkering with a design document for a "Strike Fighters"-like tank game for years (a lite sim) but I've been out of the simulation industry for a while and back in the military. Maybe after my next deployment I'll have the money to finally put up or shut up about it.

Well for me this stopped being about price. It was, but not anymore. I simply want to know more about the interface before I commit. I think pakfront communicated how I feel pretty well. I may beg a license for a week or so. Maybee Ssnake himself might be willing to float me a week (I won't ask or comment on it any further but if he offers I am game). I would love to come back and tell everyone Steel Beast is great. I would love to convince people that are more like myself (like DCS / LOFC2 pilots for instance that have developed interest in tank warfare but do not really understand Steel Beast) that it is a great investment.

Also I have recalculated the price

DCS Black Shark $49.99 (when new)
Logitech G940 $299.95 (new egg)
TrackIR $150.00 (TrackIR site)

Total Cost $499.94

Steel Beast is looking pretty cheap.

The problem is the license is run through the USB dongle..not via a downloaded license you enter into your install. So, a trial version doesn't exist because of the current DRM protection, which works rather well.

Matt

But a trial does exist - and it illustrates the flexibility of the DRM solution chosen... any potential user is able to install the software on any device that will run it. All he then needs is to be able to access his own (or another 'borrowed' license) and can do so from anywhere on his network (including a WAN so long as sufficient permissions exist for the necessary handshakes and optionally Hamachi or similar VPN software). If he chooses he can also add secondary licenses to the CM stick and share these (and his primary license if he doesn't want to join in too) to others on his 'network'.

This is a way that many people have used to trial the software recently - you get the full version to try out, plus an immediate access to helpful and knowledgeable members of the SB community who can answer questions, join in MP sessions, give advice and feedback etc, as the license is frequently hosted by those with more experience in using SB Pro (in both military and PE versions sometimes).

No one needs to wonder if the software will run on his system or whether the style of simulation/control will be accessible & sufficiently controllable for their needs - they can explicitly test this for no risk except their time to install and test, before purchasing if they consider it would meet their needs... Further, the resale value of the software seems to hold very well, so 'cost' of owning the software for a few years is no more than 1 mid-range title if you did decide to recoup expenses by selling it off - (but you must have the dongle in good working condition - don't lose it and try not to break it). Short-term you can again 'borrow' a license to continue playing while waiting for a replacement/repair but it will cost you something to ship and replace the device.

You're right, forgot about buying an additional license and loan it to someone you know. I was thinking more along the lines of a demo specific DRM without the dongle. I have been debating buying a license for my son to try as well.....doooh! So, yes, there is a way. Try it, you'll enjoy it once you get all the controls figured out, not meaning its impossible. I wish someone had offered me a trial version, though admittedly my mind was made up without the demo, its that good.

Matt

I for one am glad that we had this debate, and could clear up a few misconceptions about SB Pro PE that way.

Wow! This basically started because I responded to a a screenshot thread about price vs. quality. I was hesitant to post it because I figured it would just turn into a flame war with nasty responses and not a level headed, quality debate. I guess the tank guys are more 'grounded' and 'level headed'...lol

I still have not gotten SB but it is on my list of things to get, though I wish there was a demo, I can understand why there is not. I also think the license borrowing idea is decent way to try it out but a traditional demo would be much easier for the casual passer by and for one that does not visit the forums. As one member said earlier, maybe a narrated quality video that shows a demo from starting the software to the opening screens to options to vehicle selection to pre planning and maps to load out to the actual mission and then mission end.

Like I said before, I just want this sim and ALL sims to grow and gain more followers. The industry needs more companies like ESim and DCS. I would love to see SB on the cover of PC Gamer. Sorry, this is 2012, not 1995.

But I will say this. The main reason I never bought SB is because the most expensive game I ever bought was Matrix War in the Pacific for $89.99 and I just never really played it. Now I know SB is on a different level and genre than WITP, but something burned me up inside to spend that extra cash and not use it. I can't even begin to tell you how many $49.99 games I bought and never used, but something about spending $49.99 doesnt bother me as much.

This isn't the Cliffs of Dover section you know

I posted this in another thread, but I have several licenses available if anyone wants to try pro pe. They are on a server running 24/7. PM me for details if you are interested.

I am also willing to lend my license for short periods so that people may try.I have already helped a few out this past month and heard more than a few giggles once they experienced firing KE down range.

I had no qualms in paying what works out to be about £65 for SB Pro PE as I do not mind paying above the norm for PC sims. I paid £50 for DCS A-10C when I bought the Beta and the same for Black Shark plus £12 recently for the update the BS2 and again have no problem with that.

I would not pay more than £30 for 'normal' PC games as I feel they are not worth more than that as their life span is limited for me as I rarely go back and play again, with the sims I have mentioned I do.

I get more than my monies worth with SB Pro PE and therefore ends up being cheaper than a £30 game, if that makes sense.

It's a trick..be careful!! You will purchase this game after playing it a few hours with that license!
BUT BUT.. I mean "YOU" will purchase it!! Nothing tricky in the background.. it's that good if you like tanks.

I probably purchased about every game out there with a tank at some point or another.. except this one for years! I could not justify paying 100.00 plus for a game!

After playing about an hour with the license, I got a friend to join in.. together we played maybe one or two net games and both agreed.. whoops..there goes 100.00 bucks on a game! It's just that good in feeling and sound. Played against each other and teamed in a tank.. "pleasant experience" found only in Red Orchestra series using Darkest hour mod to date. The graphics remind me of ArmaII level and work out fine although I will be hunting out Hi rez building mods and road mods. Sometimes looks aint everything.. and this just feels right! From watching the boys bail out the back of a bradley to getting baked in a M1!

I can honestly say though, the youtubes. ads and reviews never got me to turn loose that 100+ pricetag. It took the demo/temp play. Graviteams Steel Armor Blaze of War does look better except they didn't add in the network play..sigh.. and does not have the solid feel or ease of play as steelbeasts has. I like both but I really needed a game I could ride inside the M60 and priced right, graviteam did that nicely.. so I am content having both now...

As a brand new users I can only take off scores for the Network having no drop in.. which was the case of rise of flight for about a year.. then they got smart. And yes, they both are the same type games imo. There is always room for reserves in war. And the getting stuck in ponds here and there does get a bit annoying but more or less users fault! Ok, maybe the AI not turning to the most powerful enemy in his line of sight has it's moments. But the AI sure knows how to get around trees overall..maybe a few stucks here and there.. Still, one of the best in AI performance in this respect.

Other than that..this game is a winner and needs more advertising now that 100+ price tag is more on line with the 60.00 triple A titles now selling on the market. Yes, more advertising is probably needed, but people do find it if they like tanks.

Just my opinion obviously and thanks for a good game eGames and the use of the License SeanSB!!

Glad you like it! I think an all out free for all demo would simply overwhelm our ability to support it correctly. This "unofficial" one allows us to help a few people at a time get it going and see what it is like.

Actually, that's a great attitude for a company to have. Ability to take care of a few over the cries of the masses will be a much lighter task and probably allow the game to grow through the years in the companies vision and not bending to pressures. Not often you see a company pass up money for the chance to see their vision come to life. ~salute~ for that. I also like the idea that 100.00 invested would make the user actually get involved more. makes sense, although less money. In the end as we grow old , we learn money isn't everything.

If you don't like the price, you don't have to buy it. But $125 isn't too much to ask for such a great package: all the detail and realism of a true hard-core sim and all the variety, flexibility, and fun of a survey sim. Almost equally good at both single player and multiplayer gameplay. You can always ask for more, but this is plenty for the price.

I first read about Steelbeasts on Frugals many years ago, searched and found the eSim website then seen the price and at that time it was out of my reach which is probably as well as I did not have the time to play it. I looked at the SB forums every now and then but still the price tag put me off, then one day trying to load up M1 Tank Platoon on my PC and everything looking so poor and difficult to control made me wish for a better tank sim and I remembered SB, by now I had retired and had a bit more time to myself so I took the plunge in 2007 and purchased SB Pro PE, it is the one thing that has remained on my PC ever since.

Recently UK Armour started up as a unit to play SB with a British flavour and that prompted me to play online, I had got a second licence for my son and my multi player experience was limited to that. Now with some ex army chaps in the squadron they are taking us through a training session to get us to fight as a unit, wow, I wish I had tried this sooner it is so much better when fighting as a combined arms team and I look forward to the online sessions.

SB PRo PE has come on a long way since 2007 nevermind how far it has come since it was first released. If you love tanks you will love this sim and the on going cost of it is very little, esp. if you see what my son spends on Call of Duty/Battlefield type games. If I had the chance to have a demo like they have now all those years ago I would have bought it long time ago.

Alicatt has said it all ... As a newcomer to SB (and UKArmour) the price didn't phase me. If the software works, and works well, developers deserve their return ; business doesn't run on fresh air. As far as the business model is concerned, I like it. I don't have to have a PC the size of a refrigerator and it has a realism which is refreshing and totally immersing. The other point is one of simple service. It is so refreshing to be able to talk (email) to a person, and Snake never seems to sleep! This is something one doesn't experience with many software simulations.

One other aspect of note is the absence of people on SB forums venting their spleen in some kind of a rant! There are differences of opinion. but they seem to be just that. Most refreshing!

I would underline what Alicatt said about having access to more experienced (and professional) people. SB is a steep learning curve, but man, have I learned a lot in a very short space of time because of other members in the online company. We make mistakes, we encounter problems, but it's fun, because we're learning together. Surely that's the point of it all ..?

...at least providing an entertaining learning experience was one of the more refined points that we hoped to achieve.

I just got access to the trial late last night and stayed up until 3am playing some Leopard tutorials, so I haven't actually spent the $125 yet. But here's my thoughts.

When I moved to Australia in 2006, the typical price of a new game was between $100-120 AUD, which is pretty much the same in USD at the current exchange rate. Now if you shop at the right places, a new game is usually $68-100, so prices have come down a bit. The point is that for Aussies, $125 isn't too far off the price we're used to paying for games.

I think more people would spend their money on such a game if it wasn't so damn expensive and came with a better advertising standpoint. Coming from an outside view, I'd value a tank sim such as Steel Armor: Blaze of War over SB because it's
1.) cheap ( I purchased my copy at $10, never breaching the $50 mark even when not on sale)
2.) has a more realistic crew intercom system (in comparison with the promotional video's)
3.) has the capability for amazing graphics, even if you're like me and can't use them all.
4.) Isn't $125


Not all of us "Tank Nut's" are rolling in cash, which is really the only reason I haven't purchased it yet. I'm also alittle worried about purchasing the current version because I've been under the impression that you have to buy each successive update, which is a real killer for me.

Also, the demo refuses to work for me for some reason.

whukid - what is the error or problem that you are having when trying to play the "demo"?

if you don't need a printed manual and dvd SB Pro PE costs $100 dollars: http://www.esimgames.com/purchase.htm

some define $100 dollars as a lot of money, but many will think it is the best $100 dollars they have ever spent on a pc "game".

yes, eSim Games, does release an upgrade for SB about every year and a half that we pay $25 dollars for, but it always contains additions that are well worth that $25 dollars.

i am happy to pay the price, and i think it is great that eSim still supports their product by making these "upgrades" for it.

#1 and #4 are essentially the same argument. There's a number of solutions for that - you could start monitoring eBay for a used copy; they aren't terribly cheaper than the original, but still. (By the way, this also says a lot about how much money it REALLY costs if a game that is out since 2006 can still be sold through eBay for about 80% of its nominal price - in other words, if you bought it on release day 2006 then and now sold it for $80, it would have cost you in total $65.- in six years, or $10.84 per year. Sounds like the price is actually very close to that in your argument #1... Occasionally there are special offers from eSim Games. Last November we offered SB Pro PE for $85.-; there was a similar deal at the 10th anniversary for more than three months; similar offers may be made in the future. Fundamentally though, the age-old problem of not having enough money to buy X has a very traditional solution - start saving.
I know, it's not a popular advice, but it's known to be reliable. It works.

The upgrades aren't mandatory, but it seems like they have been juicy enough for most of our customers to actually buy them. How else are we supposed to make money for the ongoing development effort? You may be working long hours for your money - so are we. We need bread and a bed too, and there's a group of us who need to be kept alive. Our effort is worth it - at least to us. Whether it is to you, only you can decide.
Don't tell me that you can't afford it. If you don't want it, that's okay. But already by owning a computer-game suitable computer you demonstrate that there's disposable income for needless luxury. Of course there always still the question whether or not you value a product high enough to justify the price, and since value judgment is a highly subjective matter, only you can decide.


I guess, what it really boils down to is that you couldn't yet check out the demo. Fine, let's work on that. Did you contact the official demo email at SteelBeasts.com, or did you try to set it up with someone else who was willing to borrow you a license? Unfortunately, the demo is technically a bit more challenging to set up than the normal version, so you need to think a bit about firewall configuration and port forwarding in your router.

But we're here to give you advice, if you need it.

Well. I'm going to take it that this; http://www.fileplanet.com/45253/40000/fileinfo/Steel-Beasts-Demo-v1.19 isn't the demo.. In which case, I'll be right back.

whukid - that is the original Steel Beasts, released in 2001. it might/might not run on a modern computer.

SB Pro PE is what you want to play/demo now.

SB Pro PE FREE Demo Available:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3532014/SB_Pro_PE_FREE_Demo_Available.html#Post3532014

download and install SB Pro PE 2.654 from here: http://www.esimgames.com/Downloads.htm#PE%202.654%20full

No, version 1.19 is about a decade behind in development. And probably difficult to install on a modern computer for a number of reasons - DirectX, Win95 compatibility, 8 bit color mode, etc. ... better try the current demo, which is more representative of what you'd get anyway.

Interestingly my copy of SB:Gold runs just fine on my W7 box without any install issues. I will agree the graphics are a bit laggy behind the latest version

-Jenrick

The price and lack of DD version has prevented me from buying it. Just saying.

...so we're again back to the price point, just where we started in January.

Some people find it difficult to believe, but SBPE is one of those rare sims or games that stays on hard drives indefinitely. The price per actual use of the sim declines with the actual use of it, which means it soon becomes a cheaper investment than a great many sims and games. *Almost* every sim and game ever made is essentially over within a relatively short period of time. With the exception of a few classics such as Falcon 4, Jane's F/A-18, and precious few others, they last a matter of months, maybe a year or so. You paid the full price, and now its a fond or not so fond memory.

SBPE is not like that. Nearly annual expansions (remember those? One or two $15, $25 or $30 boxed add on disks after a few months?), continue to add new player useable AFVs, more non player AFVs, improvements across the board, and bug fixes. The active community builds well made new scenarios regularly, and multiplayer sessions are plentiful.

Heck - console games that aren't even sims cost $60. And this is far from a toy!

If $100 is what it takes to make a superior quality, long-lived sim that is expanded annually, please make more of them!!