With the advances in onboard sound chips on mobos these days, do standalone sound cards offer much of an improvement in quality? Say if you only use headphones and not interested in 5.1/7.1 speaker systems.

I use 7.1 headphones most of the time, but also have a 4.1 speaker set.

IMHO, unless you are using music encoded in a high bit sampling rate and want it reproduced in really HQ, it is really a waste of money.

If you only play games, sound files are rarely sampled higher than 16 bit at 44.1 KHz. The onboard sound hardware is more than capable of reproducing these. There is definitively better quality from a dedicated card (although not much different than onboard if you go for the cheap solutions). Maybe a better positioning algorithm and channel separation is what you could get. The cost of a good sound card is hardly justifiable these days.


I guess, another unintended consequence of having the latest games developed for multiple platforms.

In that case, I wouldn't bother. I'm a big fan of my card, but only due to my Z-5500 surround set up. You can get a lot of benefit with the adjustability it offers in a good speaker system, but IMO it would be a waste with headphones or basic speakers. Hard to beat a good set of headphones, put the money into that.

I gotta have my SB XFi Platinum Fatality ed.

for my studio work, i need all the MIDI in/outs and stuff.

Onboard is fine, although sometimes your mileage may vary.
My old work computer had absolutely abysmally poor RFI on the sound outputs, which is one place where I would use an external sound card. For my composing machine where I need low MIDI latency, I use a somewhat exotic Emu 1212M. It is quite overkill for game/sim stuff though.

If you use headphones most of the time, I'd spend a bit more cash and go for >£100 stuff. Sennheiser HD555s or AKG 701s, I think they were. Depends on whether you like reference or a "hi-fi" sound I guess.

I've had my X Fi since they first came out. I've got the Xtreme Music or whatever it was called, the first wave of them.

I've thought about getting one of the newer PCI-E models, but in the end I just stick with my old PCI model.



The Jedi Master

I've looked at high end headphones before but they need to accommodate my TIR trackclip and not many have a flat area on the band.

I have a SB Live 5.1 Platinum ($299 when it was new). in my old system.

When i built the newer system in 2005/6 I upgraded to a SB XFi Platinum w/ 64MB of XRam.

The only games that utilized the EAX X-Ram was a few EA / Battlefield 2 Games (dont remember).

The reasons I Stuck with A NICE addon Card is, are the reasons I'll transfer my XFi Card to my WIP System Im Building Now.

Even though Most Onboard audio chips have improved in terms of Dolby Digital Decoding and all the features.

the SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio), on their Outputs are no where near where they should be for quality sound. most of hte system's I've used headphones on had the analog noise/hiss on them due to poor shielding of the chip and the jacks.

And Like i Said a few days ago, I do Audio/Video Studio Work, so I can switch between 3 modes on my XFi
(Gaming, Entertainment, Audio Creation.) Each mode effects the Sound Processor and uses different features/filters.

And I Use all the ports on the 5.25 Bay Expansion (Mini MIDI In/Outs, Line In/Outs, Optical SPDIF In/Out, RCA SPDIF In/Out) 1/4 MIC, 1/4 Headphone, etc etc.)

Quick forum search goes a long way.

I recommend reading all 3 pages of the above linked thread. We covered 99% of the sound card related stuff.

I still don't have a TIR, so I don't know what the attachment system requires, but is it possible to dash together something using old cereal/cardboard boxes, some glue or masking tape?

Probably but I wouldn't want to do that.

I just use my Kinect :p

MacGyver, is that you?

Here's a news item on what interesting sound-card bits Asus is working on:
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/22292

For headphone use? No contest, sound cards don't have buzzing noises every time you move your mouse or have drive activity over their analog outputs.

Then there's the binaural surround filters like CMSS-3D Headphone and Dolby Headphone, which I find good enough to do without speakers entirely. The former is actually the chief reason why I've invested so much in headphones, because it's practically an aural wallhack.

I just wish that PC gaming sound hadn't basically regressed over the past decade, all because Microsoft killed off DirectSound3D and OpenAL never saw mass adoption...virtual 5.1/7.1 has nothing on a true 3D binaural sound space.

It's interesting to re-visit this topic again. In the previous thread many months ago where the same question was asked I said that I had just moved from a top of the range X-Fi Elite Pro to HD Onboard Sound and couldn't tell the difference.

I still stand by that but have just bought an Asus Xonar DX (PCI Express) for reasons I'll explain later. I think that only an audiophile (I'm not) with top end speakers would be able to tell any difference in quality between a dedicated sound card and onboard audio via their speaker setup. For the average gamer/simmer/person, I don't think they would know at all...............but the big difference is for headphones and that's the reason why I bought the Xonar.

With Onboard sound on my Z68 motherboard, I was limited to the standard windows settings, pretty much no customisation at all. I remembered the great audio I had with my old card when using headphones (CMSS-3D) and took the plunge with the Xonar. I really needed a PCI Express card because although I have quite a big case (HAF 932) I have limited space between my PSU at the bottom of the case and the GTX 580 a few slots up - I didn't fancy restricting the airflow/fans of the GPU so the PCI card will sit nicely above the card and underneath th CPU/cooler, the Xonar DX is also low profile and judging by benchmarks and reviews shares very similar technology and sound quality for the most part in comparision to its bigger brother the Xonar D2X.

Anyway, back to the point....the night I installed the Xonar I sat listening to audio tracks from MTV's Unplugged series....I couldn't believe the audio quality with virtual Dolby switched on. Some of the instruments sounded as if they were being played right next to me and the clarity was outstanding. I kept taking my headset off to check that the 7.1 speakers weren't pumping out the sound too because it sounded like they were - it certainly felt like the audio wasn't coming through 2 crappy little drivers inside my headset because I'm not using anything special. The audio felt like it was surrounding me and the moment I turned virtual dolby off, the headset went back to 'normal', as if it was being pumped into each the left and right ear. The difference was immeasurable and that was what I had been missing and why I'm glad I've gone back to a dedicated card.

There is a big difference in the games too when using a headset. I'm playing a fair bit of BF3 at the moment...with my onboard sound I could tell that a helo or tank was roughly in a particular area, now I know exactly what tank it is because I make out the difference in engine noises at distance even when it isn't visible and exactly where the tank or helo is...it's not just an area anymore - I can specifically make out where it is, which way it is travelling etc. The audio on BF3 is probably the best I've heard in any game and the Xonar has just compounded that point because I'm hearing more and more sounds that I hadn't noticed before.

I remember loving my X-Fi when I had it, but there were also many problems with drivers and BSOD's. There was often a conflict when running my Haupaugge TV card and the driver updates from Creative were just a joke. I'd heard the Asus cards were a lot better in that regard so that's the reason why I won't be going back to Creative again as long as I'm running Windows 7. All in all, I'm happy again with my sound but as I mentioned at the top of this post, the only difference (and it is a huge difference) is the experience and atmosphere you have when using a headset in comparison to speakers.

+1

This is exactly why i wanted a dedicated card.. Sound through a decent set of (budget) cans is immeasurably better on my Xonar DG than it was from my onboard.. Onboard sound is not to be sniffed at nowadays but i would not now be without my dedicated card.

What headphones are you working with, Daz?

Nothing special at all mate, some £30 Logitech closed ear jobs from PC World. With the difference the sound card has made I'm currently looking for a decent set. I'm sure it's gonna be another nice improvement.

Hmmm... are you saying that the Xonar card made your headphones better than without the card? Link to that card please?

The retail price is £60-£80 if you look around online. I bought it brand new from CCL Online via their ebay shop at £49.99 with £2.34 for delivery

ebay UK link for Xonar DX

Its the same price from their online store but they charge a few extra £'s for delivery:

CCL link for Xonar DX



Absolutely, it's the enhancements that the combination of hardware/software provide when used with the headset. I've simply found this big difference from using the same headset when I had onboard audio to the same headset using the Xonar. I always used to 5.1 or 7.1 speaker mode and like I've said previously there isn't the same gulf in quality but when my missus started whinging more than usual I got the old headset out and remembered how good my old X-Fi was....it was that stage that I decidede to try the Xonar.

I don't know what customisation you can do with your current setup but for me all I could do before the Xonar DX was to select headphone mode in the Windows control panel and create more bass. With a dedicated card there are countless options but it's the virtual dolby that makes it worth the money alone on the Xonar. I literally can't wait to get a better quality headset now for another big improvement.

if not for my studio work, which is 95% Geared towards using Creative's features (the 5.25 bay addon and stuff), I would have swithced to ASUS a while ago.

Daz, can you try DCS A10 with and without that Xonar working? Or maybe with and without that Dolby at least? I would love to hear how it improves the game.

I remember when Oblivion just came out, one of my buddies recommended getting a sound card to pull the "work" away from the CPU; he said it gave him smoother gameplay plus a better "feel" for the sounds in the game... but this was years ago.

This is interesting, i'll have a look at this thanks

I'm sure I can do that.....gimme a couple of days to get back to you as I'm working in London tomorrow and Tuesday.

No problem, looking forward to your "review." I have a cheap set of headphones as well, Plantronics Gamecom 377. There are some more expensive ones going up to £80, some fancy 5.1 headphones, but I'm interested to know how a £50 sound card improves things.

OK Ice,

I've played with DCS A10 using the onboard sound and the Xonar with and without virtual Dolby.

The first thing I'll say and it became disctinctly obvious is that there isn't a great deal of difference in this sim across all 3 options. I can guess that because you are effectively sat in your little bubble within the cockpit there isn't much positional/directional audio within the game. If I had to make the decision, I'd say it's not worth dropping £50 on if this is the only/main game you play....it is in total contrast to a title like BF3 where you are hearing lots of different audio at different ranges coming and going from different directions.

Onboard sound is definitely the weakest though and my least preferred, I can tell (I'm not sure if anyone feels this?) that the constant hum of the engines and what I will label 'generic audio' that is audible throughout the game/mission is distinctly coming through the 2 ear-pieces clamped to my head. You can obviously hear specific sounds such as the batteries getting switched on and during manual startup and button clicks but again you know its coming through your ear pieces.

The difference when you use the Xonar is that you can't tell the audio is coming through the ear-pieces, it seems to be all around you - this is why when I'm listening to music I often take my headset off to make sure the speakers aren't also booming because it doesn't focus the audio directly on the right and left sides over your ears. The sounds in A10 are quite subtle and there is a background 'hum' of the electronic systems which is definitely a little louder when compared to the relatively quiet noise of the engines when using onboard sound.

When I switch virtual dolby on, I wouldn't say that the sound is better, but the subtle sounds I've just mentioned do sound a little louder. The difference here if I compare it to BF3 is that turning virtual dolby on and off in that game feels like it's moving you in and out of the game. With dolby on, you are in the middle of the battlefield, with dolby off you could be at the edge of the battlefield looking in if that makes sense. In DCS A10 that just doesn't happen, and I'm sure that's more related to what I mentioned at the start of the ramble because you are in such a small envelope of sound anyway, with very little really going on apart from a few whines, clicks and Betty telling you to pull up now and again.

All in all, not a big difference from onboard to Xonar within DCS and like I stated in the first paragraph not worth buying a Xonar/dedicated card for this game alone. If you listen to music at all as well as using your PC as a gaming system then it instantly becomes worth the £50 in my opinion.

Well, I use my PC to play other games too and watch movies. Music, not so much. I do understand what you are saying about the Warthog's "cockpit environment" though. A few questions -- how does the sound quality change when doing something deliberately one-sided, ie, spooling up the left engine with the cockpit open/closed? Or dropping ordnance, can you tell which side of the aircraft the "clunk" came from? Or flying with the wingman, can you tell which side he's on just by sound? Also, how does it improve/affect the GAU-8 sound?

Can I ask you to do a review on other games? Like maybe Skyrim? Or Shogun 2? Or Dragon Age 1 or 2?

Spooling engines..........definitely positional, you can tell the sound is coming from your 5 or 7 o'clock with canopy open. With canopy closed, its muffled and harder to tell.

GAU8 - It sounded devastating before, now its louder and devastating but no real difference in quality.

Weapons....yeah, you can detect which side.

Wingmen.....didn't try, will have a look at that tomorrow.

Unfortunately I dont have/play the other games you mentioned. It sounds like you play a few different games, I've no doubt that using a dedicated card when compared to onboard sound will be a big improvement. ......as for movies, headset or speakers are unbelievable. You can also select virtual 7.1 even if you have stereo speakers.

If you buy online from a retailer or eBay shop seller you'll be able to return it within 7 days for a refund if you don't think its worth the money.

Hmmm... what other games do you play?

I understand what you're saying re: returning stuff within 7 days, but don't think it'll be worth the effort if I don't like it anyway.

Train Sim 2012
Arma 2
iRacing
F1 2011
EECH
BS2

If you use Steam have a look at 'Paradaz'.......I probably have about 60 games on there which I pick and poke at.

Ooooo!! Train Sim 2012 please! Really interested in the in-cab and the "flyby" views too.

Looked at your Steam list of games and we have only a few in common

I also have the Xonar DX sound card and do the same thing as you occasionally when playing Rise of Flight. It's a very good card, that's for sure.

Guys, I give you this:

http://www.techpowerup.com/158389/ASUS-R...press-Chip.html

14th post in this thread.

Ah I missed your post mate! Cheers!