Few screenshots I want to share with SimHQ's fans of armour. Starting with my favourite IFV. Enjoy

The Finnish combat vehicle CV9030Fin





The German Transportpanzer (Tpz) 1A7







The British main battle tank FV4034 Challenger 2



And me dugged in safely for incoming tractors?!?

excellent as usual... great screens... except you keep spelling armor wrong!

Commonwealth my dear Magnum....Commonwealth

Lovely shots. Especially like the Fuchs I used to roll around in '93/'94.

I think "armour" is the French word for tank-love.

Now thats humour

Just absolutely beatiful screenshots there Wicked! I remember someone writing recently in another thread that they wished SBPE had good graphics like Steel Armor" Blaze of War. (Armor spelled correctly here ) How can anyone say that when looking at screenshots like this?

Wwll, admittedly the screenshots were taken from the more advantageous points of view where the lack of shadowcasting is less obvious. Incidentally these are also the typical player's points of views which is why this apparent lack of a feature hasn't yet let the customers stage a revolt.

And I will freely admit that there are a lot more things that could be done to increase the visual appeal of a scenery. This will become apparent when you directly compare the same scene with certain shader effects active (or not). Eventually we'll brush up our engine a little.

You still got an eye for screens Wicked.

Hate to be negative but damn, is this game ever gonna get cheaper? lol.

Got me recently another full license for $ 100 US. Thats just 78 euro. Not bad for a military simulation. MW3 costs here almost 60 euro (without DLC). Just saying...

Now thats the download version wich they still offer for a short time. You get no hard copy manual and DVD.

In a nutshell: No. You want quality - it's going to cost.


Seen in a bigger context: With all additions since 2006, it already is a hell of a lot cheaper than it was five years ago. The price is still the same despite the fact that the utility value arguably increased by 100%.

Had you saved just 20 bucks every year since 2006, you could have bought SB Pro PE by now. I'm not ashamed of asking for the price that we do. Getting fixated on the price omits an important variable, and that's value. Value is a subjective metric, of course. Apparently you don't value SB Pro PE high enough to justify the purchase. That's okay, SB Pro isn't for everyone. The only question that you should ask yourself however is whether your value appraisal is founded on facts, or cursory glances. From your statement I think I can read that you have had an eye on SB Pro PE for quite a while now. That suggests at least a mild interest in it. The question is, have you ever bothered to investigate in detail what SB Pro PE offers, and then come to the conclusion that it isn't quite what you're looking for? In that case, fine. You made a good decision.
If on the other hand you didn't, maybe now is the time to have a closer look.

I don't think that there's anything on the market that offers a similar degree of technical fidelity and depth of gameplay in the field of contemporary armored vehicles. Sure, there are other tank games, but few of them deserve to be called simulations. A true simulation has the benefit that you can't "play it through". If it is interesting to you, it will keep you entertained for a much longer time than your run-of-the-mill shooter game. One game session per week, two hours, for a duration of nine months - that's a total of 78 hours, or $1.60 per hour. And that is probably the most conservative estimate how long this may keep you interested. Play it twice a week for two hours for 15 months and you'd town to 50 cent per hour for a cerebral challenge.
No - I don't think we're asking for too much.

In a nutshell: No. You want quality - it's going to cost.



Well Ssnake, I just woke up about an hour ago and made a cup of coffee and sat down to read some forums and look up some ideas for my kitchen and bathroom remodel. I dont post much here but I read EVERY day all the posts and articles.

I have followed the SBPE forum as much as DCS, Falcon, FSX. Community Hall, etc...
I have always loved that you have been an avid follower and poster with great advice and support of your product. That is one of the main reason that I have always considered SB. Because of you. Unfortunetly I have yet to take the plunge. The main reason...price.
I am by any means 'cheap', I just cant justify the price compared to other products. I know one day I will take the plunge into the waters of SB and pay the price. I will just add it to the list of high priced toys for my 'hobbies'.

The one thing that bothers me was reading that last post of yours.

You talk of quality as if your product is on a higher level then say Black Shark, Falcon, A-10, FSX, Skyrim, COD, CIV 5. All of wich cost me between $49.00 and and never higher than $59.00 US. All of those titles have given many, many hours of entertainment, reading, learning and enjoyment.

I know its hard to compare games like CIV5, COD, Skyrim to FSX, Falcon, A-10 and Black Shark, but at the end of the day they are all entertainment products. None of them have ever cost more than %59.00 and some of them can be gotten for great prices at times like A-10 and Black Shark. The quality in these products to me and the time spent developing and maintaining them looks to have quality and dedication written all over them.

Now I understand that ESim may not be Microsoft or Bethesda or EA or Microprose/Spectrum Holobyte, but we cant deny that these are 'quality' products and we didnt have to pay $100.00 for them.

Do I like the fact that SBPE is $100.00? Yes. Have I gotten it or will I feel good paying for it? NO. Will I someday soon get it? Yes. I like the fact that it is that price because you know anybody that purchases the sim will be a person that is into the subject matter. Most likely will devote the time to learn and research the subject because of the money spent.
Something in our mind says I can easily shelve a game that I spent $49.00 on but I must 'play' and learn a 'game' that I spent $100.00 on.

Do I like the fact that SBPE cost $100.00? NO. The reason being is that I feel it excludes so many potential buyers of a different form of simming. Modern day tank sims that are on the equal of Falcon or the DCS series are not there except for SBPE. I have been simming for years since about 1986. In the early and mid 90's my hobby was at the top of its game. BUT...as anyone can see, simming has taken a back seat to FPS, RTS and RPG's and a lot of people dont want to put the time and effort into reading a 300+ page manual, doing tutorials, learning all the systems, etc. This bothers me. I loved the days when sims were on the covers of gaming mags and you could walk into the stores and see shelves filled with plane, tank and sub sims. That is why I dont like the price of SBPE. So many potential new simmers are never going to experience it because of the price. Maybe this is by design, but it is just not something I agree with.

In short, dont take this as a flame or a knock on you, just some good old fashioned sim talk. I just read your last post and it kind of bothered me about the way you responded to quality vs. price. Maybe because you wrote it at 3:09am and didnt have your coffee and look up kitchen and bathroom remodels yet. OR...maybe that is how you really feel. Just the way you answered it I feel might turn people off and that didnt seem like a normal response from you about your product.

At the end of the day, I wish you luck and great success with your product and I hope to see you supporting it for years to come! We need people like you in the simming industry.

It might be best to continue such a debate in the SB board, not here in a screenshot thread. And I'm not taking your comment as a flame or anything. Like I wrote, I'm cool with anyone who says that, in the light of what SB Pro offers to him the price is too high. The other games that you mentioned simply follow a different business model. They are more suitable for a broader audience.

We have settled for our price point for reasons I am not at liberty to explain in great detail. Let's just say that we have our reasons, and that it was a deliberate decision, not done on a whim.

I'm a bit short on time, so I'll keep it at that. But I'm happy to write more in the other board, later.

Yes...exactly... don't disrespect Wicked with his excellent screens by high jacking his thread about cost... please take Ssnakes advise and bring that to the SB board. or at least in the SimHQ SB forum below... wheres it's already been discussed, debated, and answered for years.

Thank you.

back on topic... those missions you play Wicked, or using the editor to set up your screens.... like I know you do with VBS2.

SBPRO PE is more complex than any of those other products you mentioned.

Is the simulation more complex than DCS A-10, or is it more complex because there are more playable vehicles each of which are comparable to the simulation of the A-10 in DCS?

The SB sshots are made in the AAR after the mission. Those with the German units are from a map I am editing right now. Testing some small scale missions on it.

Well, let's look at some of the examples you provided. FSX? IIRC cost more like $75 originally and evidently did not generate satisfactory sales, leading Microsoft to disband the development team - the replacement looks like it will be based on a completely different business model altogether. Falcon? Put its original developer out of business and is only still alive thanks to non-profit efforts of community enthusiasts - hardly a good example that $60 can adequately cover the cost of developing a high-quality sim. Skyrim, COD, CIV 5? MUCH larger potential market, so development cost can be spread over a vastly bigger number of sales. Black Shark, A-10C? Some will argue with this, but there are indications that the business model ED projected for the DCS series is simply not working out. Longer than planned development cycles appear to have forced them to charge for products which they originally hoped to offer for free and diversify their product portfolio (DCS Flying Legends) to create additional revenue streams so they get income on a more regular basis.

You've stated your argument very eloquently and I can't disagree with many of your points. However, all indications are that a price of $60 (let alone less) is unsustainable in the long term for a high-quality product targeted at a niche market (these are TWO separate attributes and both contribute) like SB Pro PE or the DCS series.



DCS is a very bad example in this context, see above.

and again... bring it elsewhere... don't highjack the mans screenshot thread to argue what has been argued over and over for years... going to start removing those post next, if we don't get back on topic.

Mea culpa. Maybe it would help to *move* the off-topic posts to a new thread in the appropriate section so continuity is preserved, if people who want to discuss this issue are too reluctant/lazy to open one themselves

EDIT: What the hell, I took the plunge as it's not really Magnum's job to do our work

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3494908/Steel_Beasts_business_model_di.html#Post3494908

I think the continuity argument is valid though, people just hate to think that their argument may get overlooked if they post in a new thread instead, so it might pay to move the existing posts on the pricing issue over. Especially as the contributions so far were very intelligent, level-headed and civil. Further, if this issue does crop up regularly, it might pay to make the new thread sticky, so newcomers can be referred to it and endless repetition of the same points in different threads is avoided.

Sorry if my post seemed like i was joining in the cost debate. I was honestly interested in the complexity post. Love the screenshots and thought if the simulations are as good as dcs a-10 i may consider a purchse.

It is more complex in general. SB is amazingly detailed on multiple levels, from unit characteristics to armor values to depth of play to the planning phase and so on and so on. The amount to learn in SB is immense, but very rewarding if one takes the time.

Awesome shoot, I just do not have enough time to devot to all these great sims.


Bullet

The individual vehicle is much easier to learn and master than a jet like the A-10. You don't have to worry keeping it in the air, there aren't that many sensor modes or different armament options. Then again, there are about a dozen different fire control systems implemented with pretty high fidelity (there still are some simplifications, of course), so if you want to master them all, that's going to take at least as much time as one study sim, be it Falcon 4 or one of the DCS series titles.

The real challenge is more in the coordination of many maneuver elements that the player may need to manage simultaneously, and the great variety of environmental conditions. It's easy to become a virtual tank gunner, but a lot more complex to manage several platoons of different weapon systems - infantry, tanks, personnel carriers, artillery observers, engineers, ...
Generally I'd say it's a mix of a real-time strategy game (less the overly hectic click fests that they tend to be, or base building), of vehicle simulation with first person perspective elements, and of a wargame. In addition, there are more meditative elements like the mission and map editors. Some people like to tinker with them which, I think, is a bit like model train diorama building (just without glue and plaster).

Oh yeah, and quite some furious action, and fear of unseen threats at long distance.

Nice shots, great sim

I'm doing the tutorials now and loving it, can't wait to do a mission

Funny, I'm learning Steel Beasts, a tank sim, and DCS A-10C, a tank buster sim lol.

You are your own nemesis! Does the world end now?

Really looking forward to getting this. Been reading up on it lots.