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#3491075 - 01/09/12 06:38 PM D.VII Roll rate
KRT_Bong Offline
It's KRT not Kurt
Senior Member

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Gulf Coast of Florida
I have been tinkering with the response curves in my game and I find that try as I might I cannot get the D.VII to roll properly, it is slow and once the aircraft reaches inverted will more often than not stop rolling altogether, at first I thought it was my joystick but my father has the game and the same joystick and it seems to be a problem for him as well. Has anyone else experienced this?
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#3491356 - 01/10/12 07:41 AM Re: D.VII Roll rate [Re: KRT_Bong]
RoFfan Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 518
Yes, the D.VII has a poor roll rate. Give it as much (also ineffective) rudder as you can to help it around.

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#3491599 - 01/10/12 01:38 PM Re: D.VII Roll rate [Re: KRT_Bong]
KRT_Bong Offline
It's KRT not Kurt
Senior Member

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Gulf Coast of Florida
In reality the D.VII had the highest Roll rate of any of it's contemporaries, The German Air Service had to destroy all of them after the war as part of the Versailles Treaty. IIRC it was better a few patches ago now most of the planes lose Aileron effectiveness as soon as the wings pass 90 degrees except for the Pfalz DIII, I can barely get a decent roll out of any of them. I have seen plenty of Large Scale R/C WWI planes and during Contests they all do Military Aerobatics and they are able to do all of them just fine, and before anyone tries to correct me yes, Scale R/C planes are comparative to their RL counterparts, same airfoils built on scale plans.



These are Proctor Kits DVII's which are considered museum quality and at the beginning you'll see a very smooth axial roll without any hesitation.
And just to be fair I'm not expecting Pitts Special roll rates, a slow roll is better than no roll, at low speed any airplane will roll poorly but under optimum flight speed it should roll smoothly.


Edited by KRT_Bong (01/10/12 02:01 PM)
_________________________
Windows 7 32 SP1
Gigabyte GA770 probably obsolete already
AMD Phenom II X4 3.1Ghz really an X3 unlocked and overclocked
ATI HD 5830 1Gb 256 bit it was cheap
4 x 1Gb GSkill 1333Mhz looks pretty on the MB
X-Fi Xtreme Creative Soundcard - cheap pair of headphones

"She put carbolic in my coffee, turpentine in my tea, Strychnine in my biscuits, Lord but she didn't hurt me." Furry Lewis / Big Chief Blues

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#3491811 - 01/10/12 05:07 PM Re: D.VII Roll rate [Re: KRT_Bong]
arjisme Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 599
Loc: Plano, TX
Originally Posted By: KRT_Bong
IIRC it was better a few patches ago now most of the planes lose Aileron effectiveness as soon as the wings pass 90 degrees except for the Pfalz DIII, I can barely get a decent roll out of any of them.

So you are saying the roll response for all the aircraft in RoF (except the Pfalz DIII) has recently changed and is now fairly slow/unresponsive?

FM revisions were done most recently for the D.VII, the N.28, the N.11 and the SE5a. The change for the D.VII was really just to change the elevator movement to have a symmetric range of motion both up and down. This had the effect of greatly reducing the adverse yaw it use to suffer from.

I've been flying the St. Mihiel campaign, which involves flying the D.VII and the N.28 in the earlier missions. I did not notice any roll rate issues with either plane. They roll fine.

I don't know how to reconcile that with what you are reporting.

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#3491840 - 01/10/12 06:06 PM Re: D.VII Roll rate [Re: arjisme]
RoFfan Offline
Member

Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 518
Originally Posted By: arjisme
Originally Posted By: KRT_Bong
IIRC it was better a few patches ago now most of the planes lose Aileron effectiveness as soon as the wings pass 90 degrees except for the Pfalz DIII, I can barely get a decent roll out of any of them.

So you are saying the roll response for all the aircraft in RoF (except the Pfalz DIII) has recently changed and is now fairly slow/unresponsive?

FM revisions were done most recently for the D.VII, the N.28, the N.11 and the SE5a. The change for the D.VII was really just to change the aileron movement to have a symmetric range of motion both up and down. This had the effect of greatly reducing the adverse yaw it use to suffer from.


yep

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#3491866 - 01/10/12 06:39 PM Re: D.VII Roll rate [Re: arjisme]
KRT_Bong Offline
It's KRT not Kurt
Senior Member

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 2502
Loc: Gulf Coast of Florida
Well it certainly seems different so I actually thought that my JS was the problem but it shows no loss of movement on any axis or the response curve was somehow reduced but neither seems to be the case. If I create a quick mission and give myself a lot of altitude I can get one or two good rolls and then it starts getting really sluggish, rolling with torque is better but it seems like once inverted it wont go any further.
_________________________
Windows 7 32 SP1
Gigabyte GA770 probably obsolete already
AMD Phenom II X4 3.1Ghz really an X3 unlocked and overclocked
ATI HD 5830 1Gb 256 bit it was cheap
4 x 1Gb GSkill 1333Mhz looks pretty on the MB
X-Fi Xtreme Creative Soundcard - cheap pair of headphones

"She put carbolic in my coffee, turpentine in my tea, Strychnine in my biscuits, Lord but she didn't hurt me." Furry Lewis / Big Chief Blues

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#3491876 - 01/10/12 06:52 PM Re: D.VII Roll rate [Re: KRT_Bong]
Gambit21 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 922
Originally Posted By: KRT_Bong
and before anyone tries to correct me yes, Scale R/C planes are comparative to their RL counterparts, same airfoils built on scale plans.


It doesn't really work that way.
That's why smaller scale model AC fly around like a House fly, and you don't get realistic behavior until the scale get's much larger.

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#3491883 - 01/10/12 07:01 PM Re: D.VII Roll rate [Re: Gambit21]
Gambit21 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/13/06
Posts: 922
Originally Posted By: Gambit21
[quote=KRT_Bong] and before anyone tries to correct me yes, Scale R/C planes are comparative to their RL counterparts, same airfoils built on scale plans.


It doesn't really work that way.
That's why smaller scale model AC fly around like a House fly, and you don't get realistic (full scale) behavior until the scale get's much larger.


Edited by Gambit21 (01/10/12 07:01 PM)

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#3491920 - 01/10/12 07:44 PM Re: D.VII Roll rate [Re: RoFfan]
arjisme Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/04
Posts: 599
Loc: Plano, TX
Originally Posted By: RoFfan
Quote:
aileron


yep

Yes, thanks. thumbsup

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#3491930 - 01/10/12 07:58 PM Re: D.VII Roll rate [Re: KRT_Bong]
LukeFF Offline
Amasser of Mosins
Hotshot

Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 9078
Loc: Riverside, California, USA
Originally Posted By: KRT_Bong
The German Air Service had to destroy all of them after the war as part of the Versailles Treaty.


Better re-check your facts.

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