I just might be upgrading my video card soon, so I'm starting to poke around for options. I am currently gaming with a HD 5770 on a 1920x1080 res, playing mostly flight sims (DCS series) and Skyrim, Dragon Age 2, Shogun... I just managed to OC my i5 750 to 4.1GHz so I think I'm still good in the CPU department.

I'm hoping to upgrade to a single-card config (don't want the hassle of XFire or SLI), and with the 6970 only about £40-50 more than the 6950, I am wondering if it is worth it? Or is there a better nVidia equivalent? However, since I will eventually be running triple-screen, I don't think nVidia does that yet so ATI/AMD is still my best bet, right?

Looking at Tom's GPU hierarchy chart, the 6950 is 3 tiers and the 6970 is 4 tiers above my 5770. Also, as both 6XXX come in 2GB configurations vs my 5770's 1GB, I suspect I will see a significant (both measureable and noticeable!) upgrade in eye-candy and smoothness, correct?

You can get a 6950 and mod it slightly by reflashing bios and turn it into a 6970...

Not done it on mine yet.. nor feeling the need too.. as hardly any gains were seen over my HD4890 in DCS titles to the 6950 I now have, what I can do though is turn on all the fancy stuff without it hurting FPS, but no major gains at all in FPS from changing cards in BS 2 or A-10C nor ArmA 2

YES! I went from 2 X 4850s to a HIS 6970 reference design card and the change was mind- and eye-boggling, even for so-called "CPU-bound" games like IL2 '46.

The change was so abrupt I even started to question whether I really needed to update the rest of my rig (had an e8400 based machine); but since the parts for the new computer were already ordered and shipped (and since the co-Minister of Family Finance had already approved the expenditures) I did anyway.

My games are mainly IL2 and RoF, but I don't see any reason you won't also see a dramatic improvement.

Looking at my favourite eletronics e-tailers, there hasn't been much of a drop (if any) in the price of the 6970 since I bought it in June for $C320... perhaps if you wait another week until January 9th [the 7970 release date] you might get a better deal. IMHO, waiting those 6 days might be worth it.

As I understand, this is no longer possible in the latest hardware revisions of the cards. If you do get a card from the initial release, this may still be entirely possible.

Also -Ice, since you are a DCS flier, be aware that there are a few minor issues with the Catalyst drivers and the 6XXX cards that manifests as flashing squares in A-10C and Blackshark if you run the latest drivers and use in-game HDR.

It is solved (for now) by using older Catalyst (11.6 if I recall), but the trade off is that you loose the optimizations for the latest games.

I just don't use HDR for now.

Bib, yep, I'm now aware of that, but it isn't a show stopper AFAIK. I'm also not in a rush, my eventual purchase would largely depend on how much extra cash I have at the end of this month, plus hoping to be able to dispose of my current card to "reduce the cost" of the new one. I do hope the new 7XXX card will push the prices down a bit. £50 too much to ask?

I'm not sure, but I think the 2GB ones are still "firmware upgradable". The 1GB versions don't have that dual-BIOS switch near the CF-connector like the 2GB version. Like I said, I'm not sure.

I did a quick search, and indeed you have to have a reference design card in order to unlock the shaders with a BIOS update.

However, MSI provides a way to do it in their "Twin Frozr III" cards:

http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/msi_r6950_twin_froz_iii_power_edition_unlocking,1.html

I always hear about this "unlock card B so that it becomes card A or even faster." However, what happens if I buy card A then unlock/overclock it? Won't it leave card B in the dust? Also, why buy something with the hopes that it may have some desirable characteristic which it may not have?

Yeah you need a reference card to unlock the 6950 to 6970 speeds - which you'll have to ask for or do your research.

I did a lot of research on 6950 v 6970 when purchasing mine. The 6970 is only 10% faster than the 6950. You'll have to do the math if you think paying more for 10% performance is worth it. Thinking about it in RL terms, if you're running A-10 at 40fps then with a 6970 you'll get 44 fps - so not a lot of increase for whatever the $$ difference is.
I decided on 2x6950's as they scaled better in CF performance than 6970's going by price.

You can't go wrong with either but what I do recommend is going with a 2gb version for high AA. You'll soon find that 1Gb won't cut it for higher resolutions and AA.

If you can wait, wait a month. The 7xxx series is being released this month which should push 6xxx cards down.

I'm no overclocking expert here, but can you overclock the 6970 to any degree? Coz I'm thinking if you could, then it'll be more than just 10% faster.

2x6950s is still way more expensive than 1x6970 though, and 2GB 2x6950s will be even more expensive.

-Ice. Yes, the 6970 can be OC'd. My card is able to hit the CCC core limit (but not the mem limit)... that said, my experience was that there wasn't much in-game difference compared to not OC'ing the card so I brought it back to reference #s as I'm satisfied with the performance anyway.

If tight for budget, the 6950 flashed up to 6970 (unlocking the extra pipes) is a better deal than getting the 6970 as there's about a 30% price difference for maybe a 10-15% performance difference. Of course, you then assume the risk of getting a 6950 that doesn't accept the flash.

I just bought a 6950 2GB before Christmas and I am very happy. Like Cold_Gambler said, it is only 10-15% different betweeen 6950 and 6970. If you are on a budget, 6950 is the card to go.

One thing you might want to research on a little more is the cooler. There are a lot of non-reference cooler designs that are a lot more quiet than the reference cooler (also depends on your computer case).

Mine is a powercolor 6950 with twin fans, very quiet in my HAF932.

Ice, I'm also looking at a new card and between an HD 6970 and the Nvidia 570 and the 570 comes out as the better card. Lower power consumption and slightly better on tests.

http://www.hwcompare.com/9020/geforce-gtx-570-vs-radeon-hd-6970/

I have had ATI's for a while now but don't mind what brand I get as long as I get the best for my money.

I always get my PC stuff from here Ice and they always arrive quickly http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlis...sortby=priceAsc

The major difference is the RAM though, 2Gb on the ATI vs 1.2Gb on the Nvidia. Can someone say whether this will bring major advantages?
I liked the Nvidia as it has PhsyX and I have quite a few games with this (Batman AC for example).

I think it depends what games/sims one play...

For RoF, with the settings that I use (almost every bit of eye candy), I'm happy to have 2 GB GPU memory as 1.2 GB would be using just about 100% of the graphics memory (assuming the RoF estimate of usage is correct). I think RoF is something of a GPU memory hog compared to most applications though.

I only have 1Gb now on my card and I run RoF pretty much maxed out so that extra .28Gb will be fine as I think I'm sticking with a MSI GeForce GTX 570 OC Twin FrozR III Power Edition 1280MB which beats the 6970.

My card has 1280MB and I don't think I've ever passed 85% memory load for ROF, and besides I get better performance (with little loss of overall quality) running it in the 60-70% range.



The Jedi Master

I'll have my new card tomorrow and a 27" LED monitor too

If you guys are OK with 1.2 GB GPU mem with RoF, then it's clear it's sufficient

Better your real-world experience than my guess-work.

You with your fancy 2Gb

Got my MSI GeForce GTX 570 OC Twin FrozR III Power Edition 1280MB today and I'm running BF3 at ultra settings, DCS A-10C max everthing with mirrors on even, Skyrim at max and Batman Arkham City at max with DX11 on with no problems which others have reported with that game.

Am very happy with it

Framerates on DCS A10 with all at max (tree shadows on, trees and bushes on at full) using any one of the pre-loaded missions??

Is it possible to have multiple screens connected to one 570?

Just ran it with Fraps going and it averages at about 30fps but I turned up the 'clutter/bushes' slider but I don't normally have that up. The lowest it went was 20 over a town with cannon rounds impacting in it but it wasn't bad. I never really notice low framerates though unless it's a slideshow.

It has 2 DVI ports and a mini HDMI port and there is an adaptor in the box for a normal HDMI cable so I gues you could run 3 monitors from it but I am no expert on that at all.

I know it has the ports but need to confirm if it can do the job. AFAIK only AMD/ATI does triple-screen without TH2Go via Eyefinity.

To my knowledge, you'd need an SLI setup to run "surround gaming", as nVidia calls it. I've only seen one mention of a special nVidia card that could, but I'll have to look at the possible sites I've seen this mention. HardOCP or Guru3D, IIRC.

[EDIT] Well, didn't have to search long. The card was previously only mentioned in a technology comparison for the numbers in graphics, but now they have given it their thorough review:
http://hardocp.com/article/2012/01/02/galaxy_mdt_geforce_gtx_580_video_card_review

Yeah... so not springing for a 570 then, and a 580 is just too expensive.

I'd love me some multi-monitor support, even if it's just for helios.

I love my new Zotac GTX 580 AMP2 3gb. Searched every online and found a site that was selling
for cheap compared to every one else. Total price with shipping was only $531.

http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/zotac_gtx580_3gb_amp2_sli.html

AMD 6970

Just a question on using multi-monitors? Do you get special ones that have no frame? Otherwise you would get picture/frame/picture/frame etc and surely that spoils the immersion?

When you are talking about multi-monitor gaming Ice, I presume you are talking about 3 or more monitors?......because all graphics cards can output to 2 x monitors and will work with games that support it.

If that's the case then yeah, Nvidia requires SLi to run more than 2 x monitors whereas ATI can run 3 monitors from one GPU on their high-end cards (Eye Infinity) There are 2 exceptions with Nvidia for 3 monitor gaming if I recall correctly, there are 2 cards which are SLi'd on one PCB, these are the Evga 460 x2 and the GTX 590 which offer 3 x DVI.

Small bezel displays are available from Samsung specific for Eyefinity, but they cost a pretty penny. LG has a new 27" lined up for CES, the DM92. IPS, 3D, tiny bezel... might be the right screen for the discerning Eyefinity consumer. No word about the price yet.

My 3 Eyefinity LCD have "normal" bezels. I do not use AMD/ATI bezel correction. My brain simply "ignores" or "adapts" to them (however one may want to say it). May not work that way for everyone. But, it probably does for a lot of folks -- as the brain is designed to ignore stuff like that (after a period of experiencing it). For example, I also almost never notice the quite loud chimes of the Grandfather clock 20 feet from my chair (chimes every 15 minutes -- literally don't hear it -- unless I am listening for it -- no, I'm not deaf ). However, no doubt, some folks would be bothered.

My bezels are pretty thin anyway. I think they're about 1.5cm, definitely not as big as 2cm. I overlap the bezels so I only ever noticed the thin bezels at the start. Now, as Allen has stated I'm used to them and they just get brain compensated.

I'd say Eyefinity adds to my immersion factor waaaay more than bezels breaking it. I can't game any other way now.

Does seem, though, based on what you guys have posted, that I've got about 0.75 GB of vid RAM sitting idle most of the time...

Speaking of bezels (slightly OT), I'm going to wait a few years (2-3) until OLED computer monitors start coming out. It seems like they can make the bezels on the OLED screens insanely thin.

Look at the bezel on this puppy (if you can find it ):

Where's the bezel?!?

I'm currently running a 25.5" ViewSonic which I'm very happy with, but I'm hoping that I'll eventually be able to get 3 X 22" (or, ideally, 24") OLED monitors for 1200$ in about 3 years' time.

That's the TV version of the DM92 27" I mentioned above. The design is the same and the bezel is the same, just the screen size is about half. That makes the bezel look relatively speaking double thick... but 1millimeter is still 1/15th of the thinnest non-Eyefinity screens you can find for a reasonable price. Also about 1/10th of a regular screen with the design/protection bezel removed.

1mm bezel! IPS and OLED... looks like there are going to be exciting new monitors coming out soon...

Ok, my jaw dropped.
I will have to sell my organs to buy one.

+1

Not sure if you still looking at 6850's? But just had an email from Aria saying they have 7 left at £95! http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other+products/PowerColor+AMD+Radeon+HD+6850+1024MB+GDDR5+PCI-Express+Graphics+Card+?productId=47805

Probably pretty good 2 running in crossfire?

Thanks for that, got the same newsletter from Aria. Unfortunately, it seems like a 6850 1GB is only a touch more powerful than my 5770. Isn't a 6850 just an "upgraded/renamed" 5870 anyway?

I'm looking at a 6970 or 6950 at the moment, at 2GB flavors.

My Brother's 6850 beats his old 5830 by about 12% in benchmarks, Runs Cooler, and uses less power.

The 6850 may only have 160 more shaders, but the VLIW in the 6850 cards is faster than the 5770/6770, Not to mention the Memory Bus is twice the size/width.

The 6850 even beats the 6870 in most cases now.
the 6770 is a 5770 with updated HDMI Specs, same GPU performance specs.

Roughly the 5xxx series translation to 6xxx series.
5870 -> 6970
5850 -> 6950
5830 -> 6870/6850 (6850 has better performance.)
5770 -> 6770

Point taken, it is faster, but only slightly. Care to make a 6850 vs 6950 2GB comparison?

6950 beats the 6850 by about 8-12 % in most benchmarks. The 2gb obviously does better at high resolutions w/ Anti-Aliasing.

The nVidia 560ti stomps the 6800 series by itself.

the 69xx Series barely beats the 470s and 560Ts and is a bit behind the 580s, 570s and 480s.

I think some of the bench result’s favor nVidia.. as Im not so sure that AMD’s top Single GPU card cant compete with nVidia’s single GPU.

Simplest reason I choose AMD is one word -- Eyefinity.

Which nVidia Cannot do without SLi.

6950 w/ 2GB overclocked can match 6970 2gb in eyefinity.

Not without TH2Go. While I may Xfire a couple of 6950s, I don't want to be "forced" to buy 2 cards just to run more than 1 screen.

But would 2 6850's beat a 6950? Cos if they do the 2 6850's would be cheaper too.

But the two 6850 cards performance benefit over the single 6950.... would that outweigh the downside of having micro-stutter and single card performance in games that don't support CF/SLI?

Two 5870s (Which I own) beat a 6850, 6870, 5970, 6950 and 6970. Only a 6990 (Dual GPU card) is faster in the 69xx series, or two 6970s. A single 7970 is a bit faster than my two 5870's.

I run Eyefinity on three 19" screens.

AMD Cards can run it one one card w/ a Active Display Port screen + 2 others.

nVidia has "Surround Gaming" which requires a SLi Setup.

or you can TH2Go it.

I've played on AMD Eyefinity setups at 5760x1080 (3 wide) and it is Insane. but well above my budget.

and Two 6850s in XFire Beat the AMD 6970 by ~23% (so at 33 frames/sec your looking at maybe 8 more frames/sec.) in Xfire Supported Titles.

If 2 6850s beat a 6970, does it stand to reason that 2 6950s will do even better?

Yes, but only in games that work with SLI/CF. If they don't, you have single card performance. If they do, you get a healthy 90-99% boost in framerates, but might introduce microstutter. The 6950 is closely matched with the 6970.

With the 2GB 6950 cards that have the dual firmware switch, you can even try to flash one BIOS to 6970. If you are lucky, you have a 6950 running as a 6970.

While I understand what all are saying with the 6850, it is just a step up from my 5770 that I see no sense in spending the money. A 6950 however is a bigger step up, although it is also about £100 more than the 6850 -- I can buy two 6850s for a little over the cost of one 6950.



I get your point, but if the game DOES NOT work with SLI/CF, a single-card performance of a 2GB 6950 would still out-perform a single-card performance of a 1GB 6850, yes? While I may be lucky and get a 6950 that can be unlocked, I do not want to buy a 6950 mostly based on that reason.

Of course. I was mainly replying to the question of "two 6950 performing better against a 6970 (than a pair of 6850)".

A single card 6950 does around 20-30% better than a single 6850 (FullHD).
A CF setup of 6850 does around 40-50% better than a single 6950 (FullHD), if the game supports CF.

Look at the games you want to play, then check reviews if the games run well, at the resolution you play.

Roger, just making sure I'm on the same page, lol

I wonder if DCS A10C supports CF? What about Skyrim? How do you confirm this short of asking in the forums?

Quick google search

DCS A10C doesn't work. Ball in AMD's court?
Skyrim does work.