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#3485709 - 01/01/12 07:51 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 419
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Still can Dvina! I can try to intercept the Dvina SR-71 The question may Dvina Stealth intercept or may not! Dvina can F-117 Stealth interception or not! 
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#3485715 - 01/01/12 07:58 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 419
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My question to the Dvina?
How to use the "doghouse" and why do I need?
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#3485863 - 01/02/12 06:15 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: max2012]
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Member
Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 108
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My question to the Dvina?
How to use the "doghouse" and why do I need?
Not simulated, and probably won't be. RTFM and RTF previous posts!
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#3485873 - 01/02/12 07:07 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 06/17/10
Posts: 108
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Tried to intercept SR-71 using Dvina several times - and a few tactical conclusions: 1) Lack of I87V can, in principle, be overcome. By the way, I have discovered a what I call 'do-it-yourself I87V'. Press and hold the mouse button at A screen as if you were to adjust the range, then change screen to Q and move mouse (still holding the button) left-right so that target altitude could remain constant. Nothing hard, can be done even with a fast-mover like SR-71 (not to mention BUFFs)... 2) ...if only it were of any use.  Our new Habu is a bit more intelligent than the bird we got used to bring down using Volkhov. There is a Hpasp's surprise (unannounced) for us FCOs, but nevertheless closer to SR-71's real behaviour. After reviewing several AARs you will see that after our launch the SR-71 changes altitude randomly. This makes any UPR/K guidance a real guess, which could be accepted as a baseline for future trials... 3) ...if only the missile could let itself, as Lieste wrote above, be intercepted by SR-71.:) Gap in agility between 11D and 20D/5Ya23 famillies is clearly seen. No 11DKU missile fired in UPR/K towards SR-71 ever got anywhere close to range-angle intersection, and for 20D/5Ya23 it was no great feat. T/T-guided 11DKU do much better (a surprise for me), holding within the beam most of the time, including last phase. 4) With such an unreliable range solution, I would not count on Rab-ot-RV mode, and rather set 11 sec. No chaff in this case.(?) K3 dismissed without explanation. To sum up - I can assess chances to hit Habu with Dvina as L I M I T E D. I wouldn't say 'none', as T/T missiles give some hope.
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#3485931 - 01/02/12 10:31 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 419
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I87 have no Dvina, but it has a calculator on which it is possible to calculate the distance to the target using a special table.
In addition, a range of Dvina "Wide Beam" which means 20 degrees capture Ray.
But the question is objective SR-71 is very fast and even when I put Interference missile launches.
What do I do then?
As I understand the Dvina to intercept SR-71 has no chance.
It is very difficult!
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#3485948 - 01/02/12 11:14 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: vintorez]
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Member
Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 1266
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With the speed of the target, I'd always go for a long-range FQ shot - the aim is to approach the target from ahead rather than trying to follow it in a turn as it passes "overhead". While this means that the intercept phase is entered at a lower energy, the reduction in required turn performance, and shallower climb profile means there is a lower requirement for energy so this may come out a wash, or in favour of the slower missile at longer range.
Given the penchant for jamming, I'd also avoid attempting lead guidance, and just go for 3 point every-time... this will eliminate any residual chance of intercepting a target at close range as this is inefficient against a crossing target, but at the longest range intercept will make little difference and eliminate problems of incorrect altitude/range setting.
With the forward quarter intercept, chaff is not a problem for the fuse - the target will always be closer than chaff is - unless you have already missed. Set proximity fusing on at launch and be done with it.
The only difficulty is guessing the appropriate range for the altitude/speed/course that the SR71 has, and which can be modified after locking-on or firing. Spreading the 3 missiles over the probable range bracket should allow at least one to approach within fusing range, but actually passing close enough to kill is a harder problem.
Note that the Vietnamese only made 4 engagements against the SR71 in 1967/1968, and one was terminated without missile launch. Of the 3 remaining engagements, against two separate flights, one missile fused and caused fragmentation damage... depending on whether you count the number of targets engaged, the number of firing systems, or the number of missiles fired, this is between 50%, 33% and 11% hit rate, but a zero kill rate. The only aircraft of this type lost were to operational accidents.
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#3485988 - 01/02/12 12:22 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: vintorez]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1701
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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1) Lack of I87V can, in principle, be overcome. By the way, I have discovered a what I call 'do-it-yourself I87V'. Press and hold the mouse button at A screen as if you were to adjust the range, then change screen to Q and move mouse (still holding the button) left-right so that target altitude could remain constant. Nothing hard, can be done even with a fast-mover like SR-71 (not to mention BUFFs)...Great! This is what I also used to do... 2) ...if only it were of any use. sigh Our new Habu is a bit more intelligent than the bird we got used to bring down using Volkhov. There is a Hpasp's surprise (unannounced) for us FCOs, but nevertheless closer to SR-71's real behaviour. After reviewing several AARs you will see that after our launch the SR-71 changes altitude randomly. This makes any UPR/K guidance a real guess, which could be accepted as a baseline for future trials...Nope. HABU behavior is not changed. Its continuously ascending, as fuel depletes. 4) With such an unreliable range solution, I would not count on Rab-ot-RV mode, and rather set 11 sec. No chaff in this case.(?) K3 dismissed without explanation.HABU flights had no chaffers before, just the BUFFs got this advantage. 
_________________________
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History. (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3485992 - 01/02/12 12:29 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Lieste]
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Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1701
Loc: Hungary, Europe
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Note that the Vietnamese only made 4 engagements against the SR71 in 1967/1968, and one was terminated without missile launch. Of the 3 remaining engagements, against two separate flights, one missile fused and caused fragmentation damage... depending on whether you count the number of targets engaged, the number of firing systems, or the number of missiles fired, this is between 50%, 33% and 11% hit rate, but a zero kill rate. The only aircraft of this type lost were to operational accidents.
As we know, that the SR71 RCS is too small for burn-through over jamming (and HABU used to jam), I would assume, that Radio Proxy Fuse was armed by 11sec.
_________________________
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History. (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
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#3485998 - 01/02/12 12:42 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 1266
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Probably - refine that to one missile is known to have passed inside the fusing radius and detonated at an aspect and range that allowed some fragmentation damage. Without a 'shot-by-shot' AAR we don't know how many missiles guided to within the fuse range, or how many fuses functioned as designed. We do know that the one confirmed successful interception was FQ, yet still resulted in a detonation behind the target due to closure rates and geometry.
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#3486008 - 01/02/12 01:02 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Member
Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 419
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Well I'll try this trick with the Dvina!
Question what's the Dvina at this table!
How to calculate the table while the SR-71?
Means "dog house" is not active, then why is it necessary.
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