Rumor that Nvidia roadmap has slipped a year -- officially. Apparently the actual Nvidia slides -- so maybe not just a rumor.

Also rumors that Nvidia has renamed/renumbered some slipped parts to make them seem more up to date -- but they're the same parts. I remember someone here at SimHQ mentioned a "skip" to GTX780 rumor (skipping GTX680 model number). Possibly, nothing more than renaming GTX680 to make it seem up to date (though a year behind). We'll see -- as that's a rumor.

Right now, AMD has a full 28nm line up in the pipe for 2012. As an AMD fan, I want to see Nvidia get its competing products on the shelves sooner -- to lower the cost of AMD products for me and other AMD fans. Possibly, AMD fans are looking at higher prices until next Fall???

Nvidia Roadmap Slips

I assume some of the slip is due to the TSMC 28nm manufacturing slip. However, AMD had its parts ready to go when the 28nm process came on line this Fall. So, there may be more technical and engineering issues with the Nvidia designs.

So for AMD buyers, same situation as with the 58x0, early pre-orders get a low price and then prices go up by 10-15%, till "market forces" bring the price down to or below initial price?

One year:

Hmmm. Maybe I won't wind up upgrading in 2012 at all then. My SNB CPU is still current, won't be looking till early 2013 to replace that. If nvidia does nothing more than tweak existing chips while AMDs are now just broadly comparable, there will be no reason to ditch my 570 in 2012 at all. The only pick would be to go to a 7970, and not at that price I'm not. The 7950 will likely be faster than a 570, but probably not by enough to warrant the price it will likely have.

So, I guess in 2013 I'll look at the CPU and GPU situations. In the meantime, I'll stick with what I have.



The Jedi Master

that sucks... i was hoping the 79xx series would drop by april/may when I start ordering parts.

That may happen. If so, the January 9 price might be the low price for a good while.

Also, this is the first of the 28nm cards and seems to be working as designed/desired (unlike the HD2xxx series for example). They seem to have done well enough that I speculate subsequent 28nm cards won't beat it by much.

Those two suppositions conspire to influence me to buy one January 9.

I think the design will hold up well and the price may not be as good for months -- so why wait? Hmmmmmm

Because the system I just Virtually Assembled to go around my 79xx card already costs $1300. Hopefully prices drop by april.

and thats keeping the kB, Mouse, Xfi Sound Card, and BlackMagic Intensity Pro.

Havent Decided if i want to move my Zalman over to the AM3+ Board. If i Get a New Cooler i can revert teh Zalman to my brother's system and unlock/overclock his PhenomIIx2

Might have to get a fan controller for all the fans. (CPU, Ram Cooler, 4 Case Fans).

New Case, PSU, Mobo, 16GB Ram, CPU (AMD 8 Core), Ram Cooler, 1.5TB WD BLK, DVDDRive. and 23 inch screen. (though dropping the new screen and 1.5TB drive drops $300).

New System is gonna be mainly for Gaming, but heavy video editing/recording as well.

April might work out, pricewise. A rumor a month ago indicated that the slipped GTX680 had slipped to roughly April (was supposed to be out already).

AMD was ready for a Fall release, but didn't do it because Nvidia didn't show up (AMD then took advantage of HD6xxx Christmas sales). If Nvidia gets 680 (renamed to 780?) on the street, competition could push down the price of AMD's top card. Those of us in the market for the "top cards" might have quicker resolution because Nvidia's business plan absolutely requires that they have the fastest card -- so it may well be first and ASAP (no matter what Nvidia's cost to get it out). If it is not first, you know Nvidia has engineering issues.

My speculation above was regarding the whole product line. Seems like AMD has the whole line covered. In general, Nvidia will be playing catch up all 2012. Then, late in 2012, the HD8xxx will hit the market and Nvidia may be behind again (unless Nvidia really does spring an engineering marvel).

Hopefully Bulldozer gets cheaper or I'll go with the Cheaper PhenomII X6 (which is listed as Out of stock now so maybe not?.)

$1300 + The price of the GPU, will be the 2nd most expensive system I've assembled. The First Being my Current one.. 6 years ago. ($1780)

I could trim some stuff, but i dont want to, i want to keep my old system functional in case i need to utilize it for trouble shooting and comparison.

Considering the Mainboard is $189, Chip is $220, HDD is $189. Alone.

Allen, you have an interesting philosophy. You were alsways an AMD fan because of their good bang for the buck value.
Now they are on top and are basing their pricing on what's being charged for the GTX580. Would you become an Nvidia fan
if the GTX580 price dropped 25% and became the best bang for the buck? I personally think Nvidia is going to
have to drop their prices if they want to maintain their market share. If the 7970 runs Il2 CloD and RoF well I'm going
to pull the trigger myself. Finally a card that can run RoF at 5040x1050 by itself. It'll replace a gtx570 and 8800gts640mb.
Cooler temps, less crowding and lower power draw. My last ATI card was a 9700.

Personally I think AMD should've kept their price at the current gtx580 1.5mb price, about $500. Everytime one company
trumps the other the price rises 10% for their flagship. At this rate they'll price themselves out of the market. Many
AMD fans are going to let the 7970 go by because they feel it's too expensive(is alienating your core cutomer base smart?).
Many Nvidia fans are going to let it go by because it's AMD and they're going to wait for Kepler based cards. In reality the
yields are probably so low that they can sell more cards than they can produce.

Prior to 2000, I was an Intel fan because it was so much better than AMD that AMD did not compete. In graphics, I was a fan of the "best card" regardless of cost until about 2003.

Since about 2000 I've been an AMD fan and since about 2003 I've been an ATI fan. I went with AMD because they produced the best CPU and had the best price -- for a few years. I switched to ATI because they had the most "forward thinking" engineering in their cards, competitive FPS, the best all-around package (e.g. much better video than Nvidia back then), and a competitive price.

Then, AMD and ATI merged. Just turned out that my favorite CPU and GPU are now made by the same company, AMD.

Along the way, I learned how Intel "fixed" the CPU market by paying the big manufacturer (Dell) to NOT use AMD CPUs even though they were better and cheaper (this is no longer in doubt and Intel paid AMD $1.5 Billion in settlement -- and is still being sued by others). Because Intel fixed the market, AMD did not get its "rightful market share". That's what nearly put them out of business and put their product development behind. Intel would have liked that as they would have no competition and could charge us whatever they wanted and delay technology releases (as they are doing now that Bulldozer did not turn out so well). Intel is "crooked". I cannot support a "crooked" company (yup, I'm one of those folks who believes it matters). Consequently, I hope AMD does not fall so far behind that I must go to Intel (as things were prior to 2000).

Similarly, along the way, I found out that Nvidia had been cheating on benchmarks and with their TWIMTBP. I learned that they were holding back on technology (interviews with Nvidia engineers) and using gimmicks to get their FPS up (at the expense of other GPU priorities and durability). Nvidia was a "shady" operation. They are still known for that (e.g. misleading customers and investors). Don't want to support a "shady" company.

So, if this were a perfect world (business morality), I would be buying CPUs and GPUs purely on price/performance criteria and my use experience. And, usually AMD/ATI is the price/performance leader -- so no conflict there. I've used AMD/ATI for so long, I'm comfortable with them.

Still, because of the "checkered past" of Intel and Nvidia deceptions, AMD/ATI would have to fall very significantly below in performance/price before I'd personally switch (I don't expect others to wait). Nonetheless, I will NOT buy an AMD/ATI product that falls too far short (e.g. HD2xxx GPU and the current Bulldozer). Rather, I'll wait the extra year or two (not buy anything) while AMD/ATI catches up -- instead of giving my money to the other guys.

In the mean time, I try to post "evenhandedly" regarding AMD/ATI, Intel, Nvidia technical and price merits (don't let my "feelings" enter into it). And, I make clear I'm an AMD/ATI fan -- so as not to mislead. Currently, one cannot actually go wrong (performance wise) buying from any of those companies -- the differences in performance/price are usually not that great on a "practical" basis in the long haul of a year (though one or the other may lead on a given day depending on product release dates and sales).

There, my philosophy. Not necessarily shared by all

pretty much the same,

Had INTEL up to MMX 200Mhz, then went with AMD K6-IIs as they outperformed Intel,

Then went to K6-IIIs, and then to Athlons,

for Graphics, i was with 3dFx, then moved to nVidia to see if they retained the Glide API,

then went with ATi as they had better Color on their Cards, and I can get All In Wonder cards (Had 3 of these, AIW7500, 9800 and 9600XT).

When I built My new system, i couldnt Pass up the 8800 Performance.

But systems I've built for family have all been AMD/ATi since about 2001.

Intel nVidia combo provides better compatability in 3Dcontent/video applications and more-or-less equal framerates in games compared to AMD based systems. Yes, it costs a wee bit more. I gots da dolLaRs... I gets da best. All your base are belong to Us. :-)

True.

Most everything is designed/developed on Intel/Nvidia systems. So, compatibility issues get worked out without even thinking -- developers can't develop if it doesn't work on their development system.

On the other hand, I buy many many of the popular games. And, I can honestly say that in the last 9 years, my AMD/ATI systems had only ONE GAME with ONE Issue on ONE level that lead to the game being unplayable (I'm sure there have been other games, but I didn't own them). That was fixed with an *.ini file manual change, IIRC. A couple games had an occasional minor texture flicker for one texture. Other issues have been less visible. For example, CrossFire does not always lead to a better frame rate (nor does SLI) and that normally gets fixed in the next driver release (or the one after that). Not much in 9 years.

Disclaimer, I use in-game settings and don't try to override things with the ATI control panel. Occasionally, I read that an "override" does not work as well for ATI -- again, things are usually developed on Nvidia.

In those few games that were developed on ATI, the tables were turned and performance was usually best on ATI right from the start -- sometimes MUCH better -- so its not that AMD/ATI are technically deficient.

I'll just say that a company's actions will have to be far more underhanded than those done by nvidia and Intel to make me boycott them.
I've traded back and forth between theirs and AMD and ATI products since the beginning. Well, not the beginning, my first ATI card was I believe the 9700. I THINK that was the card that replaced my Geforce Ti 4400? Before that Geforce, I was all 3DFx, actually.
However, my 486s were Intel and AMD until the Pentium released, where I stayed until 2000. Then I went AMD and there I stayed again until the C2D's release. I had 2 of those and now my i7.
On the video front, since that 9700 I've alternated between nvidia and ATI/AMD almost every generation, although a few times I've bought 2 back-to-back. Recently, though, my current GTX 570 was preceded by a 5850, preceded by an 8800 GTS, preceded by an X1800.

When it comes to compatibility issues, I find that for every game AMD CPUs are a little slow or stuttering on, there's another Intel has an issue with. Likewise ATI GPUs and nvidia, although in their cases it's more often a driver bug, not hardware-based.

I generally go for the best CPU and GPU I can get in the $250-350 range when I buy. I have zero company loyalty, I'm a total agnostic.
Means I never overpay or get less than I need, and that each company has to stay on its toes to get that good price/performance ratio to get my business.


The Jedi Master

A brief rumor indicating that Nvidia's partners are concerned by the AMD lead. So, Nvidia may do an announcement next week -- so folks know its coming. Then, actual quantity shipments in Q2 (April/June?).

Kepler Launch Rumors