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#3481618 - 12/26/11 08:13 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Immermann]  
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Skipping a number is good salesmanship -- still may be the GTX680 under a different name. Even AMD is raising the "number designations" on old designs now (Nvidia started that practice quite a while back). May also want to get the first number "7" to correspond to the AMD first number "7" -- so as not to appear "behind" by using a "6".

I did read a rumor a few months back that the planned GTX680 design (planned for late this Fall originally) was moved to March/April due to serious problems. If they did a redesign, that could also be a reason to skip a number -- though its still a redesigned 680.

I notice most of the benchmarks are "high-tessellation" benchmarks at high-resolution. They show ratios, not FPS. AMD HD7970 also has high ratios under the same conditions. Nvidia numbers might be "projected numbers" based on "design goals" -- rather than actual FPS benchmark data.

Nonetheless, I don't expect Nvidia to turn out the "second fastest" card. They will do whatever it takes to claim the FPS crown smile

AMD HD7990 dual-CPU card is due in Q1 according to the latest rumor. Given the excellent CrossFireX scaling of HD7970 (close to 2x when it works), dual-GPU HD7990 could give the fastest FPS for a single-card on into the Fall.

Anyhow, the sooner Nvidia gets the GTX780 on the market the better (to lower AMD prices and speed up release of the HD8970). Competition is good smile


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#3481681 - 12/26/11 10:22 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Allen]  
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Originally Posted By: Allen
Nonetheless, I don't expect Nvidia to turn out the "second fastest" card. They will do whatever it takes to claim the FPS crown smile


They wouldn't give us another 5800 FX, would they? eek Quite the hot unit, but I still had one of those in a Shuttle SFF. biggrin

#3481791 - 12/27/11 03:48 AM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Immermann]  
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Fudzilla rumor says the supply of HD7970 will be good on January 9. We'll see smile


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#3481851 - 12/27/11 07:28 AM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Immermann]  
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the 7990 will be the card to get


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#3481914 - 12/27/11 11:39 AM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Immermann]  
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Re: it's a monster. Anyone try to find a CPU that has as many transistors as this puppy? 4.3 Billion, not a Xeon, Itanium or any I looked at came close. biggrin 2.6 for a Xeon is where the list on Wiki ends. :p

#3482017 - 12/27/11 03:26 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Immermann]  
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I think this shows more about how far short the 6xxx series fell than anything else. It's faster than a 580, but it also costs more and came out a year later. And it's only like 10% faster, so if you just bought a 580 in the last few months it's certainly not cost-effective to buy this now.

AMD put themselves back into competition with nvidia, but they're not clearly leading like nvidia was last go around. How their new cards stack up in a few months will determine that...but my gut says we'll see a 680/780 that's like 10% faster than this one but costs slightly more.

In short, will going from $500 to $550 be worth it for you for 10% more speed? Will then going from $550 to $600 be worth it for another 10%?

Of course, I've not bought the top end card from anyone for years now. Perhaps the 9800 was the last ATI card I had that was tops at the time, since then I've gone with upgrading my card more frequently but buying 2nd-best, like my 5850 or now my 570.

DX11.1 seems like a big nothing, just like DX10.1 was, so that's irrelevant. Like DX10 itself, by the time we have enough out there using it to make it worthwhile, there will be a 2nd generation of cards using it that will do it better. Those early DX10 cards were just crappy at it, but they ran DX9 like mad.


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#3482035 - 12/27/11 03:55 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master


In short, will going from $500 to $550 be worth it for you for 10% more speed? Will then going from $550 to $600 be worth it for another 10%?
If it's choosing between two new cards? I'd go for the 550$ one. In hardware, you would pay 50% more for 10% performance. When you were presented with the 6950 and 6970, they were priced 270€ and 330€ respectively, but they didn't differ 10% on average.

#3482044 - 12/27/11 04:07 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Immermann]  
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Agreed, I was hoping for the 7970 to be more than just the 10% gain over the 580 and was disappointed by that.

Also a single 7970 is as fast as my two 5870s, but the cost of the 5870's has come down to the point where you can buy two for ~$300:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=HD5870-1GB-PCIE-PB

I am not loyal to a particular brand but in this case I was rooting for the underdog ATI, IMHO it seems likely a 10% improvement will not hold out for long and at this point the main edge it has on NV is the 3+ monitor support, it remains to be seen if NV has that on their radar or not, if they do then ATI's business will be even more affected.

I am hoping both that the NV 680/780 are indeed a generation above in performance (not just 10% incremental), and that they support 3+ monitor, and that ATI has some better product not far behind the 7970 that has better performance, hopefully the 7970 is like the 6870 line which was not really better than the 5870 for other than crossfireX and with the recent driver updates even that benefit has been eroded, hopefully they have another product not far behind the 7970, like the 6970 which made the 6870 be something that was just in between generations release that most enthusiasts skipped.


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#3482060 - 12/27/11 04:33 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Immermann]  
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The big improvement over GTX580 was at high resolutions and high graphics settings -- up to 30 percent IIRC and 20 percent typical. One would not expect much improvement at "normal" resolutions for a couple reasons. Also, as mentioned before, HD7970 at 1Gz seems to roughly equal two HD5870 in Crossfire (very respectable improvement for AMD fans).

Does indicate (to me), that the HD7970 and Nvidia competitive product (whenever its released) makes most sense for those running 3 monitors or one very high resolution monitor (well above 1920x1200). Most folks would be better served (price/performance wise) by the next lower card (e.g. HD7950), I imagine. Maybe even 2 cards lower for folks with normal monitors.

Personally, I think a 50 percent FPS improvement over what one already owns should be the minimum "tipping point" leading to a new card. That's "cold logic". Thing is, I don't always base my purchases on "cold logic" smile


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#3482137 - 12/27/11 06:22 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Allen]  
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Originally Posted By: Allen
...or one very high resolution monitor (well above 1920x1200).


This year there will be (quite) a few 4k TVs at the CES. Not sure if that'd be QFHD (or 3840 x 2160) or one of the other 3-4 resolutions associated with 4k.

#3482245 - 12/27/11 09:03 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Immermann]  
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Well, percentages are misleading. A 10% improvement at 20fps means 22 fps. At 100fps, it's 110 fps, but then you don't really need more at 100fps do you?

Even a 30% improvement at 30fps becomes 39fps, which is about where you'd see a difference, but those are in rare circumstances (high res that only huge/multimonitors do with FSAA and all).

I think it boils down to being worth the upgrade if you've got a single 6xxx or 5xxx card, maybe even worth it if you have crossfire'd 6/5xxx because of the power considerations, and worth it if you have a 4xx or lower nvidia card. It's just that anyone with a 560 or above likely won't care to. Especially if you have a 560, actually, as that means you're not going to spend $550 on a card if you wouldn't spend for the 570. wink


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#3482307 - 12/27/11 10:34 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Immermann]  
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i want one... and it'll last another 6 years like my 8800 has.


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#3482375 - 12/28/11 12:58 AM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Well, percentages are misleading. A 10% improvement at 20fps...


Agree smile


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#3482396 - 12/28/11 01:37 AM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: SkateZilla]  
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Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
i want one... and it'll last another 6 years like my 8800 has.


Your 8800 probably didn't cost $550, I think I remember paying $299 for mine and it's still going strong on my daughter's handme down gaming computer.


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#3482642 - 12/28/11 01:23 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: kludger]  
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Originally Posted By: kludger
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
i want one... and it'll last another 6 years like my 8800 has.


Your 8800 probably didn't cost $550, I think I remember paying $299 for mine and it's still going strong on my daughter's handme down gaming computer.

If you look at the specs of his Chevron 9 system, it was the GTS high end version from EVGA. I think it was around 350-400$ and back then the dollar was strong. smile

#3482660 - 12/28/11 02:05 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Immermann]  
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Today's rumor: The HD7950 will cost $450 on January 9. Based on specifications, it should easily best an HD6970 (it better at that price).

Repeating, until Nvidia competes (and their 28nm design is having problems it is rumored), prices will be higher than AMD fans are used to paying.

AMD being number one sucks smile Can't wait until they take their rightful "second place" and lower their prices.

I'm quite willing to let Nvidia fans have the pleasure of "paying the price" for that extra few FPS (see Jedi Master's post above) smile


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#3482713 - 12/28/11 03:57 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Allen]  
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Originally Posted By: Allen
Today's rumor: The HD7950 will cost $450 on January 9. Based on specifications, it should easily best an HD6970 (it better at that price).

Repeating, until Nvidia competes (and their 28nm design is having problems it is rumored), prices will be higher than AMD fans are used to paying.

AMD being number one sucks smile Can't wait until they take their rightful "second place" and lower their prices.

I'm quite willing to let Nvidia fans have the pleasure of "paying the price" for that extra few FPS (see Jedi Master's post above) smile


Ditto...


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#3482717 - 12/28/11 04:05 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Immermann]  
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http://www.tomshardware.com/news/AMD-Radeon-HD7990-HD7950-ati,14366.html

Originally Posted By: TomsHardware
With the paper launch of the Radeon HD 7970 last week, we are starting to get more leaked information about the other models hitting the market under the new "Tahiti" platform. In the information leaked by xtreview, The HD 7950 will have 1792 stream processors, 28 GCN compute units, which is down 256 stream processors from the HD 7970. It will utilize a 384-bit memory bus and 3GB GDDR5 just like the HD 7970. The HD 7950 looks to utilize 112 texture units and 32 full color ROPs. It has support for a maximum of 6 displays. What is still unknown at this time is the core clock speed, memory clock speed and price point. With the HD 7970 set to release around $550, I would expect the HD 7950 to fall closer to the $400 price mark at release.



Last edited by SkateZilla; 12/28/11 04:05 PM.

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#3482911 - 12/28/11 08:50 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Immermann]  
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Of course, having 3GB RAM, a full 50% more than any other single-GPU card, can't help the price.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3483017 - 12/28/11 10:58 PM Re: AMD RADEON HD7970 is a monster! [Re: Jedi Master]  
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Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Of course, having 3GB RAM, a full 50% more than any other single-GPU card, can't help the price.



The Jedi Master


RAM is dirt cheap and overstocked, both DDR3 and GDDR5.


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3x ASUS VS248HP + Hanns�G HZ201HPB + Acer AL2002 (5760x1080+1600x900+1680x1050), Oculus Rift CV
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