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#3478223 - 12/20/11 11:08 PM Interested in the sim, a few questions
pakfront Offline
Ground Looper
Member

Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 265
Loc: East Bay, CA, USA
I've been reading the boards here and at the official site, I have a few questions regarding the sim

Is there a more recent download of the manual than the 2007 version available on the wiki? If not, is that version a reasonable approximation of the current state of the software?

What level of familiarity with modern Armor equipment and tactics etc. is needed to make the game enjoyable? Are the resources needed to learn readily available? For example, in the first series of WWII Combat Mission games, a fairly broad knowledge of history, equipment and tactics was needed, but there a volumes of information readily available at introductory and expert level. Modern seems much more niche than WWII.

SB is designed for multiplayer, but is it still interesting single player?

What size engagment is playable singleplayer before it becomes overwhelming? Platoon? Company? If I command a
platoon in a company engagement, can the friendly AI act as a reasonable company CO? Will the other friendly platoons act reasonably?

What is the time commitment for playing a good scenario, single Player and multiplayer?

Each dongle can serve 7 additional licenses. Is there a legal or implied limit to how these additional licenses are used? If I were to continuosly share my licenses with 2 friends via internet, would that be considered a breach?



Edited by pakfront (12/20/11 11:34 PM)
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#3478256 - 12/21/11 12:50 AM Re: Interested in the sim, a few questions [Re: pakfront]
Ssnake Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
Senior Member

Registered: 12/16/99
Posts: 3647
Loc: Germoney
The current state of the manual gets installed with the software as a PDF.
While we expanded the manual by a few chapters, most of what you read in the old manual still applies.

#3 is tough to answer. Much would depend on your general interest in the subject matter. I think you don't need to be an expert as long as you are willing to learn (that's why we made this simulation in the first place). Learning the ins and outs of the various vehicles isn't a terrible deal. For most vehicles there is a large set of tutorials each; not yet for the latest additions like Centauro, Challenger 2, CV90/30, and T-72. But there's the SB Wiki, in the case of the Centauro there's a looong entry in the Release Notes, and once that you are familiar with a few other vehicles you should be able to figure out these new vehicles with the help of these resources ... and the guidance of other players, both in the forums as well as in multiplayer itself. Some players offer regular training hours. Private tuition, and for free - does it get any better than that?

SB is designed for BOTH, single player and multiplayer. There's well over 100 scenarios and scenario variants for single player mode that get installed out of the box, and probably just as many available for download at Steel Beasts.com. Many can be played with enjoyment a couple of times as there is often some randomization involved - if you are interested in the subject matter at all, this will keep you busy for a while, believe me.

I'd say, a skilled player can handle about a reinforced company if he invests some time into developing a battle plan in the planning phase (you can store and exchange PLN files with other players, and have multiple plans per scenario). For a novice player I recommend platoon sized scenarios, then platoon sized scenarios with additional maneuver elements, finally the company level. The "reasonable behavior" that you're asking about is mostly a matter of the scenario design (and your planning skills). SB is limited to the micro behavior level (e.g. adjusting a position to minimize one's own exposure while engaging a certain enemy). If you give an order to attack in broad formation across a river, expect your tanks to drown, or to get slaughtered by the enemy defenders as they try to avoid the water at the last second. This is somewhat intentional as a lesson is to be learned there, that formation orders, movement tactics, unit spacing, and the coordination of fire and movement are all parts of the tactical decision-making process, and that you need to invest some brains before jumping into the action. That even seemingly tiny creeks can be substantial obstacles. That, maybe, you should have called for a smoke screen by artillery, and sent that bridge layer forward first, then crossed the river platoon wise and secured a bridgehead before resuming the assault.

Time ... for our stock scenario we try to get the duration somewhere between 40 and 90 minutes. Add to that your own planning time, and the time that you spend in the after action review (which you should, because that's your best opportunity to understand what actually happened, and to learn from it).
Toying with the mission and the map editors naturally is an open-ended venture. wink

The secondary licenses were originally made for father-son type of situations where people wanted to play together in a LAN without having to buy a full copy. So you can read an "implied" limitation of use from that. But there is no enforced policy (nor will there be). You pay for the license, you get to decide how to use it - plain and simple.
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#3478281 - 12/21/11 02:26 AM Re: Interested in the sim, a few questions [Re: pakfront]
ricnunes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 3065
Loc: Portugal
I also been following this sim for some time and I do have one question regarding this sim:
- Does it have a career/campaign? If yes, how does it work.
- Or does it have single missions/scenarios only?

Thanks in advance for replies...

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#3478319 - 12/21/11 04:26 AM Re: Interested in the sim, a few questions [Re: ricnunes]
Ssnake Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
Senior Member

Registered: 12/16/99
Posts: 3647
Loc: Germoney
Originally Posted By: ricnunes
- Does it have a career/campaign?

No.
We may eventually add something like it, but so far we've been drowned in other work and had to push it back.

Quote:
Or does it have single missions/scenarios only?

Technically it's single missions only. However, some mission designers went out of their way to create a series of scenarios that are to be played in succession, and there have been several multiplayer campaigns where the outcomes of a mission set the basis for the game the following week.
On the Steel Beasts Channel I created two playlists ("Vigilant Guardian" and "Brave Rifles") of past multiplayer events and some videos that were captured during these sessions.
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#3478401 - 12/21/11 06:16 AM Re: Interested in the sim, a few questions [Re: pakfront]
ricnunes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 3065
Loc: Portugal
Thanks for the reply Ssnake! I'm eager and looking foward to see a campaign implemented in the future in Steel Beasts.

One more question: Does those online sessions/campaign trend to be "Co-op" or more towards "Team versus Team" gameplay?

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#3478410 - 12/21/11 06:23 AM Re: Interested in the sim, a few questions [Re: pakfront]
Magnum Offline
Land & Armor Combat Editor
XBL: Magnum SimHQ
Lifer

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 23287
Loc: Naples, Florida
to add my 2 cents.... The great thing about SB Pro PE, it is what you make of it...

You can play SP, co-op, FvF... you can play 1 tank vs 1 tank, a platoon of tanks vs a platoon of tanks, company vs company, battalion vs battation... tanks only, Bradley's only, infantry... whatever.
You can be playing with friends, each in their own tank/IFV or whatever... or you can all be in the same tank as a gunner, driver, and commander... the AI can control anything the humans aren't... the humans can leave for coffee with the game running (in f8 view or map view, out of a position) and the AI will run the battle without you. You can play the entire mission via the map...

It comes with great tutorials both walk through mission wise and documents, it comes with extra documents, it comes with a great map maker and mission maker... it comes with SP missions, MP missions, co-op missions, and demo missions.

It comes with a replay/AAR tool... There are at least a 1000 user made missions, 800 of them being good, lol... from www.steelbeasts.com
It comes with excellent support, a great PR manager, and always being improved for free and upgrades at cost.

Yep.. .Steel Beasts Pro PE... is exactly what you want it too be... so many options, so many choices.

best gaming/sim money I've ever spent.

IMO
(and no I don't work for eSim Games, lol.)
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#3478435 - 12/21/11 06:57 AM Re: Interested in the sim, a few questions [Re: ricnunes]
enigma6584 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 3538
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Originally Posted By: ricnunes
One more question: Does those online sessions/campaign trend to be "Co-op" or more towards "Team versus Team" gameplay?


IMHO most online play I've been involved with through the years has been more cooperative in nature. Every Friday night here in the US, those who like H2H play get together and duke it out...usually about 2-3 hours maybe less depending on scenario and its size. The Europeans have their gaming groups which get together on regular basis and I think (don't quote me) is more cooperative than H2H. Look up Zipuli on Youtube. His gaming group has some super video AARs of their sessions. Now, with the wonderful upgrade which among many new things includes three crewable Red Force vehicles...including a superb T-72, I think it is safe to say there will be an uptake in H2H play.

It is a deep, immersive simulation of modern armor warfare. Well worth the money IMHO.

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#3478595 - 12/21/11 10:39 AM Re: Interested in the sim, a few questions [Re: pakfront]
ricnunes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 3065
Loc: Portugal
Thanks for the replies, guys!

Honestly I prefer much more Co-op games than a TvT/H2H games (again to be honest, I don't like TvT/H2H multiplayer games at all) and it's really great news to know that several players can play in the same tank (diferent positions -> Driver, Gunner and Commmander) in a Cooperative enviorment/game in Steel Beasts.

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#3478701 - 12/21/11 12:50 PM Re: Interested in the sim, a few questions [Re: pakfront]
pakfront Offline
Ground Looper
Member

Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 265
Loc: East Bay, CA, USA
Thanks for the detailed replies, very informative. Just a few more questions:

I notice the .sce files are in a binary format. Do you have an ASCII format for the scenarios as well? If not, is there a mechanism in the Mission Editor to easily import OOBs and from a text file (.csv) or excel? Or possibly import the results of a game as the starting point for a new scenario? I find this fun for mini-campaigns where an umpire can go in and resupply, repair, and reinforce to simulate the passage of time.

Likewise, given your client base I assume there is a way to export the results of a session to text or other common format. Is this correct?
_________________________
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. Windows XP Pro SP3, Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3ghz, 2GB RAM
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#3478789 - 12/21/11 02:46 PM Re: Interested in the sim, a few questions [Re: pakfront]
Ssnake Offline
Virtual Shiva Beast
Senior Member

Registered: 12/16/99
Posts: 3647
Loc: Germoney
Originally Posted By: pakfront
I notice the .sce files are in a binary format. Do you have an ASCII format for the scenarios as well?

No.


Quote:
If not, is there a mechanism in the Mission Editor to easily import OOBs and from a text file (.csv) or excel?

You can import TXT files for the briefings. That's about it.
It would however be possible to create a scenario that contains nothing but the forces, and then save it as some "ersatz OOB template"; you could later save a copy of it with a different map, and then start the scenario design process if you plan on making more than one scenario with this specific force composition. We haven't yet had lots of people who were screaming that this lack of force templates created an insufferable burden on mission design.
I take your question as a hint that such a feature might be a good idea for a future improvement.


Quote:
Or possibly import the results of a game as the starting point for a new scenario?

Not yet.


Quote:
Likewise, given your client base I assume there is a way to export the results of a session to text or other common format. Is this correct?

There are the proprietary AAR files that allow you to replay the mission at a later point, and tabulated results in HTML format (which you can load into a spreadsheet calculation for further analysis).
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