According to Associated Press. North Korean news related websites seem to be all down.

Wow.
Now what?

Finally some good news.

He be ronery no more.

Mental & physical over-work is the official cause of death.
True, the poor sod was such hardworking !

Slug

It must be true.

his third son will just be another crack pot to take over.

Lets just hope he had more time on the internet then his Dad, we might be saved if he did. Then again
his brothers will kill him if tries make peace.

One step at a time, http://www.korea-dpr.com/ is now in a sombre black background, but not a word about it yet.

Slug

That boy could have died weeks ago and they're only breaking it now to the North Koreans- that's probably something they would take their time on.

Of course like what was alluded to before, Kim Jong Il passing away will most likely have minimal influence in changing the regime in NK in any significant way.

Best not to say anything if I can't say something nice.

http://nerdreactor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Kim-Jong-un.jpg

The Heir to the 'Throne': Kim Jong Un

He looks well fed...


Wheels

That's because he's part of the "1%" in NK.

.0001 %

..with 80 %

Clearly he eats the same sawdust and rice chaff as the peasants his father & grandfather worked so hard for.

I thought he departed as a cockroach in a miniature space-craft?

Vowing to return.

He won't be looking at things any more.

The "crying mass" of people is just sad.. Shots of people on the streets of Pyongyang running around crying, unable to speak. It's either that or be shot..

LOL!

I thought the same thing, but didn't post it. Bravo!!

North Korea will mourn Kim Jong II. And that's an order.

In reality, it not matters who's thoughts are what.

My personal view ...

One Dictator less in the world must lead to a positive effect somewhere.

Anyone notice how empty the streets of the capital actually are in the videos. And its not like its thousand of people. Didnt look like that many. Probably staged.
+

I only see happy tears

Kim Jong had been 'il' since the late 70's, and actually died of massive cardiac arrest in 1986, after viewing Samantha Fox's hit pop video 'Touch me (I want to feel your body)' on MTV. Said to be a big fan of busty blonde westerners, the excitable despot's last words were reported to be 'Wood yoo Wook at de Wugs on that'.

North Korea continued the pretense that he was still alive with the skillful use of animatronic technology, body doubles and clones; though his consciousness was in fact preserved prior to death within billions of 'Nano-Bots', for espionage purposes. A bid by North Korea to gain control of the US' defensive mainframe computers and replace the code with the 'Will of Kim Jong Il' however went terribly wrong when the Nano-Bots were mistakenly transferred to Barack Obama's I-pod instead.

The disembodied consciousness of the Great Leader is now sentenced to an eternity of Mp3 torture by the 'music' of Jay-Z and 'lil-wayne', with no hope of reprieve.

The 'Kim' family ask well wishers and mourners worldwide to starve their nearest and dearest family members to death after brainwashing them with Totalitarian propaganda in lieu of flowers and condolence cards, because 'this is how he would want to be remembered.'

What? Good riddance. Never liked him anyway.

I actually don't doubt the hysteria we're seeing from these people.

This is why I'm unnerved by ANY sort of devotion to a political figure.

Biggles.... Your such a heartless bastage!!!
You blame this on one identity!!

All of us wanted to say ...

So what if I have a speech impediment .... Geeze!!

Sorry Furb mate, but some things just have to be done...Innit?

I used to laugh at Kim Jong jokes too, until I took an arrow in the knee.

I guess this means that Kim Jong Il won't be in the "Team America" sequel.

A sequel?

F*ck Yeah!

In memoriam:

Assama, Faggafi, now Slim Dong - I'd say it's been a good year!

It might very well be genuine in that they really are genuinely crying- it might be staged in the sense that they are told or encouraged to weep openly.

Western analysts are puzzled over exactly what every bit of information shown conveys the actual mood, in a closed society, we can't really be sure. Furthermore, the people in Pyongyang are probably keept insulated from the disaster happening out in the countryside.

1) Seeing is believing- Consider for a moment that this is really happening- it's not fake. In Pyongyang, the people are living relatively well. It's a privilege to live in the capital city, those who live there are politically reliable. When Kim Il Sung died, the people were shown in hysterical fits- how could this be? One answer is that the leadership exploits very paternalistic attitudes and cultures deep seated in tradition and turned it toward itself. This reverence is cultivated in a grotesque reality that we can't really penetrate other than to try and rationalize it:

If you're young, you've not known anything else- think about it. From day one you've been taught not much else about the outside world, you've been fed with some severe ideas without any information to the contrary to contest that. It's been reported from people who were born in and escaped from the prison camps that even the prisoners in those camps had no idea that they were in a prison camp- or that there was any larger world outside of the prison camp- for all they knew, the entire world is simply that- a prison camp. Something like, does a fish know that it's wet?


2) A mix of fear and of true belief. Group think is contagious- even if held hostage at gunpoint to cry openly, the line becomes blurred between obedience and compliance out of fear and actual genuine feelings. If you're crazy gone with fear, your mind is in no rational state any way and is very pliable. The effect of everyone else crying becomes infectious. I saw a program once uncovering those hypnotists who bring several people on stage and supposedly hypnotizes one person and convinces one lady that she is a dog or that a man is his sister in law, and these people act the part out- when asked why, the reply is everyone expected them to. You're on stage before the crowd, the focus is on you, everyone else is doing it. No one wants to stand out, they simply do what they are told to do under that kind of social pressure.

Even if the people don't literally believe in every single myth or mystical fable about the leadership as rote fact, what's important is that the essence those ideas are believed to be true. Just like religion in the West- someone may not believe literally in everything in the Bible or about its prophets for example, but he believes overall in the message, the idea, the essence. So if the Korean people even thought that Kim Il Sung was good and Kim Jong Il was bad, they still probably believe in the overall message however of what was being told to them.

Internal propaganda used for consumption by the masses is different than external propaganda that the West sees. Apparently the regime even acknowledges the troubles that the country has, acknowledges that the West is richer, but manages to turn that around as an advantage. They say: "We're all in this together, we have it hard, but we're a hard, badass people. We can take anything that those soft, greedy Westerners can dish out."

Kontakt5 - I don't think that there is anyone here who doesn't know or can't appreciate what an oppressed country is, and the effect it has on its people. I should imagine that xclusiv8's post was just his opinion and any seeming question was rhetorical. I don't know why you always feel the need to 'explain' to us what a situation is. We're not stupid. You seem to think that you're the only one with any knowledge of the world. And for the most part, over subject matter such as this one, people only care to comment and not think too deeply about it. Why read so much into why the Korean people are wailing, it's either because they're genuinely upset or genuinely relieved, that's it. We don't need a lesson on human oppression and emotion.

At least NK won't have to spend much on updating the stationary etc.

Kim Jung Il Un

See?

Right...and I just read that the creature Donald Neilson has died, although he should have swung 35 years ago.

In related news: Sales of Members Only jackets and stylish one piece jump suits have plummeted.

I hope no north Korean slept in and missed his appointed grieving-spot :



His appointed watcher will report him to the torture squad for tears not spilled.

I wonder if the North Korean's will have a month of fasting and complete nighttime darkness to mourn Dear Leader?

WC

I think North Koreans have a lifetime of fasting, sadly for them

Not the little Kim Jong fatties...

We sure lost a lot of bad guys this year.

All I can say is good riddance.

Sure as hell will not be missed by many.

Kim Young 'Un?

If he has a tiny bit of decency in him he will work to dismantle the wretched state his father and grandfather created. He could come off quite well in history books for that.

After 3 pages of reading and I still don't know what Kim Jong (the 2nd?) bought. Is it the Steam sale?

The mystery is killing me!!

He bought the farm!

I have a feeling, the Generals are more in charge than the fat kid

The most interesting question in all of this (as a student of Korean peninsula history)..is whether South Korea actually wants an improvement in relations with North Korea, or if the status quo is what they would like to maintain. There was a saying about the Middle East that is appropriate to the Korean peninsula as well.."we want the water hot, just not hot enough to boil over". Is reunification something that South Korea's government would want? It could mean the dilution of wealth and significant economic problems. The military industrial complex would most certainly not want it.

It is an interesting time to watch what happens over there. I lived there for a couple years when my Dad was in the Army, which is why I'm so interested in the politics and culture of the Koreas. If you haven't had a chance to read "The Two Koreas" by Don Oberdorfer it is an extremely interesting book:



The Two Koreas

BeachAV8R

The North Korean honchos don't really want to merge with South Korea unless it's on their terms, and the South can't just absorb the North's problems in the state they're in, so everyone benifits in a way by the status quo.

I recommend reading The Cleanest Race by Colin Marshal. He argues that much of what the West presumes about North Korea is based on taking the bait that the North throws out for us to understand- in other words, a red herring. Marshal explains that if you want to understand what they are expected to believe about themelves, it's closer to a race based ideology that might have came out of Imperial Japan:

First official picture of the new leader of North Korea just released:

http://p.twimg.com/AhC3CHMCIAAZxhs.jpg

A bad year for dictators.

Glory to the Great Leader, You evil nepotist American ploutocrats !!!!!!!!!

Impressions leave one to assume that battalions of professional snivellers are being bussed in from the Hambone Repertory Company.

Don't forget, fear is a powerful motivator.

Who of the oppressive dictators its left?
Mugabe, Loekasjenko, Assad, Putin and some hidden ones from small countries not often in the news.

Chavez and Castro.

Now if those two would hurry up and kick off before 12/30 this will have been a great year for dead tyrants!

Cause of death: Exhaustion.

Well the cause of death WAS a heart attack so maybe it was just too many women for his heart to take?

Remember the initial problems West Germany had economically when the two countries reunified? Now multiply it by 20.

There is some real fear that the North could drag down the South Korean economomy significantly if the two countries combined. Even after 45 years East Germany still had an infrastructure that the West could work with. It was a mess trying to update it, and to some degree it still lags behind the western part of Germany but from what I have read and understood the gap is continuously closing between the two former halves.

North Korea never had an industrial or infrastructure base that Germany had prior to the seperation. Japan intentionally kept the peninsula backwards and undeveloped. In addition there has been no real effort by the North Korean government to update the country (outside of some showplaces used to impress the West or the Chinese) outside of the military. I honestly believe that one of the reasons the North never attacked the South was because the troops invading would be furious to see exactly how well off the average South Korean was. The army would literally grind to a halt as the North Korean soldiers stopped to loot what was in the south. I wouldn't be suprised if half the army defected once the realized how lied to they were.

The influx of North Korean refugees and the cost to support their NK brothers would be staggering. The height difference between the North and the South's people is a perfect example of how poor the diet is in the North compared to the South. INitially the strain on the South would be incredible as most of the GDP would be drained to help first stop the suffering up north, then to bring it up to at least third world conditions.

Eventually it would be a boon to the South. The North has a better mineral base than the south. The population initially was higher than the South but now there is a lot of open space available for development, something becoming increasingly difficult in the South. In addition, the North is literally a blank slate, something the South could develop and improve.

But the disaster of the North would take 20-50 years to fix at first and would probably drain the economy of the South for at least 10-15 years IMHO. That I believe is the real fear of combining the two countries now.

Ha! "Kim" is a girl's name, anyway!

Nice analysis Tom. It is certainly an interesting scenario there.

North Korea just happens to be the most publicized dark horse Commie countries. How
about Burma and its Military dictatorship. Not much different, but not as well known.

Yeah, Myanmar is good at hiding almost everything happening in that country. Only news about Aung San Suu Kyi tends to get out, when she gets out of house arrest and when she's put back under houses arrest.

And we still have quite a few problems even 20+ years after reunification. Poverty and unemployment for example are still vastly bigger in East Germany than in the West.

Few people outside Germany seem to understand the incredible challenge posed by the reunification process.

Absolutely Jim and JAMF, I have to agree. I have always had a great deal of admiration for Aung San Suu Kyi, a courageous Woman who has endured much personal sacrifice for the cause of Democracy.

Well, the govt appears to have turned over a new leaf. Signs are encouraging, but time will tell...

I remember at the time how a significant portion of West Germans didn't even want reunification.

Indeed. But fortunately David Hasslehoff showed them all the error of their ways, stopping the Cold War and possibly saving the entire world in the process. According to, err....Himself.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3465301.stm

Now close and your eyes and listen to just the audio. Sounds like a bunch of sea lions....

The dude at 0:57 can't find his damn contact lens!

But of course, that's why he's the HOFFMEISTER!!

Pretty good actors...

Without any chance of a Korean Spring I think the world would be better off with the devil we know rather than an untested young man not even 30 with everything to prove and nukes at his disposal.

Young and dumb can be a deadly combination...


Wheels

20 ridiculous things you never knew about Kim Jung-il

They are only crying because they'll have to bring back all these brand new winter clothings, after the show.

I take a different turn here- the countryside is under no illusion about how bad they have it. They're either frightened out of their wits to complain about it, or they've come to accept it, kind of like zombies left to fend for themselves, they live on subsistence rations day to day, which is the extent all reality and priorities mean to them.

Even in Pyongyang, the people know that there is hardship- in fact, it's incorporated into the official propaganda that the reason for their troubles is because of the US imperialists and their allies. They've turned it around as a source of pride in their self-reliance as if to say 'we're all in it together as countrymen, that's what makes us a tougher, hardier people.' Government propaganda creates a source of rage to deflect away from themselves and redirect at its enemies, rather.

Even in this documentary North Koreans say during a BBC interview that all is not right- however they don't criticize the leadership, rather it's a source of scorn aimed at the imperialists.

That's how they justify and cultivate these kinds of attitudes you see in the propaganda posters:

http://calitreview.com/875

These are not what you generally see when foreign correspondents visit Pyongyang, or during military parades with the world watching. These are for internal consumption for the population. Whether or not you agree with US foreign policy or the conflicts we get into, whether you think the premises are untrue or blanket lies, you don't see this level of propaganda aimed specifically like this from the US government. The official North Korean mindset for North Koreans- what the West isn't getting from North Korea, is that through it all, the hardships included, is that North Korea is laying down the law and the rest of the world is getting its ass kicked by North Korea. They might point to evidence of that when we send food aid- they turn it around and tell their people that it's not aid, but tribute that we're paying to North Korea out of deference to how awesome they are.

See I just cant believe this. People that are grieving dont act in such a calm and structured way. They are all lined up in perfect lines. It does not look natural. And the fact still remains we only see a couple of groups of people in a major city. Why is that? I tell you, its all staged.

I don't know about that. It may be a cultural thing as well. I've seen media clips of Chinese, Japanese and North Koreans when some disaster happens, it can run the gamut of people passing out to a procession of people like that. Can't really be sure

Although it's impossible to know for sure what every North Korean really thinks or whether this is all for show, there is some evidence that some of this can be taken at face value. I say this because I've seen some interviews of ex-North Korean prison guards talking about doing savage things and enforcing unimaginable conditions on political prisoners- in many cases, people not charged with any crime other than being related to someone who has been charged. These guards after later leaving North Korea said candidly in interviews they had no problems handing out the most severe punishments- even to children, since they were related to traitors. Didn't bother their conscience to torture and execute anyone. They at least believed in all of this, maybe the rest is a mix of belief and compliance out of fear, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that there are true believers.

It's genuine. These peope have been brainwashed for every second of their lives. We still underestimate the power of programming in authoritarian societies.

BTW, Kim Jong Un looks like a Korean Eric Cartman.

I had a friend there who traveled into East Germany not too long after the wall fell. He said that it was like taking a time machine back to 1945.