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#3474754 - 12/15/11 11:22 AM Re: Last F-22 is off the Assembly Line... [Re: SkateZilla]
GrayGhost Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 12/17/03
Posts: 3427
Originally Posted By: SkateZilla
Originally Posted By: GrayGhost
INcidentally, accident report for the crashed F-22 that caused the initial grounding:

http://usaf.aib.law.af.mil/ExecSum2011/F-22A_AK_16%20Nov%2010.pdf


ok I wanna make sure I read and understood this correctly, How would you summarize this?


The Encironmental Control System shut off all bleed-air serviced equipment by shutting the bleed-air valves. It did so because it detected a bleed hot air condition - this air is about 800deg c, and while the engine can take it, the rest of the airframe it would just burn though, or start a fire.

Quote:
The Pilot lost air from his OnBoard oxygen system (as a result of all the cautions going in prior)(but shoulda had enough air in the line to continue past the crash time),
and either forgot to activate/or was unable to activate emergency oxygen (possibly because of the gear he was wearing),
which led to restricted breathing and possible hypoxia like symptoms (which they found unlikely)
As Pilot either struggled to restore oxygen (looking for the EOS Ring), or struggled to breathe,
he possibly hit the control inputs and put his aircraft into a dangerous position/attitude,
pilot eventually noticed his position and tried to correct / recover too late?

So basically the pilot kinda sorta wasnt paying attention while trying to restore his oxygen, by time he noticed his position and attempted recovery it was too late?


The pilot should have activated the EOS right away upon loss of cabin pressure and other indications of lack of oxygen. He tried to fly his plane first instead, which is normally the right thing to do, but as he became hypoxic, he probably forgot about the EOS. After this, whatever it is he tried to do we couldn't possibly tell if it was reaction to his attitude due to hypoxia, or him trying to pull the ring (motor control also goes to hell when hypoxic). Now having said this, it seems like hypoxia was not the cause, but rather an attempt at preventingit had the pilot looking elsewhere with limited vision, and he didn't realize his aircraft attitude had changed. He wasn't paying attention to flight any more.

As you can probably see, there's no clear indication that the F-22 is broken, rather, things seem to have functioned as they should have.

I'll add that hypoxia is truly a severe and sudden condition. You might not realize you're experiencing it, and you'll die not ever having known what happened, or that anything was in fact happening. This is why you must prevent hypoxia, rather than just waiting to react to it ... past a very short time (20-30 sec), you're done. You're no longer able to think or make decisions. If you do restore oxygen on the edge of this time, it takes a while to fully recover again, possibly as long as a minute.


Edited by GrayGhost (12/15/11 11:25 AM)
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#3474833 - 12/15/11 12:44 PM Re: Last F-22 is off the Assembly Line... [Re: SkateZilla]
Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Big Kahuna

Registered: 02/15/00
Posts: 33095
Loc: Space Coast, USA
Yet another F-22 thread where people are only talking about the PLANES the F-22 will face, which is NOT the primary threat. The primary threat are SAMs, have been since the 60s began. I don't know of a site with stats, but I'll bet in every year since 1960 the US has lost more planes to SAMs than to enemy aircraft (at least in unclassified incidents).
You can't build an air dominance fighter to sweep the sky of enemy planes if it can't survive without massive EW support from numerous jamming-dedicated planes. The F-22 was designed to be the best plane, into the middle of this century, to take on and defeat enemy airplanes in SAM-DENIED airspace. It doesn't matter if the enemy has nothing better than modernized MiG-21s firing Magic 2s if they can sit back while their SA-10/11/20/22/etc swat our planes from the sky, does it?

The F-22 and F-35 and B-2 are made to go in there on those opening days and take those sites down/out so the older ones can come into the fight.


The Jedi Master
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#3474872 - 12/15/11 01:39 PM Re: Last F-22 is off the Assembly Line... [Re: Jedi Master]
Crane Hunter Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/13/02
Posts: 3253
Loc: Vancouver B.C.
Originally Posted By: Jedi Master
Yet another F-22 thread where people are only talking about the PLANES the F-22 will face, which is NOT the primary threat. The primary threat are SAMs, have been since the 60s began. I don't know of a site with stats, but I'll bet in every year since 1960 the US has lost more planes to SAMs than to enemy aircraft (at least in unclassified incidents).
You can't build an air dominance fighter to sweep the sky of enemy planes if it can't survive without massive EW support from numerous jamming-dedicated planes. The F-22 was designed to be the best plane, into the middle of this century, to take on and defeat enemy airplanes in SAM-DENIED airspace. It doesn't matter if the enemy has nothing better than modernized MiG-21s firing Magic 2s if they can sit back while their SA-10/11/20/22/etc swat our planes from the sky, does it?

The F-22 and F-35 and B-2 are made to go in there on those opening days and take those sites down/out so the older ones can come into the fight.


The Jedi Master


This.

I remember how during Allied Force, the F-15C fleet required an extravagant level of SEAD/EW support in order to operate over enemy territory, against an opponent with a third rate air defense system. Of course there's nothing saying that the F-22 and F-35 won't struggle against air defense systems specifically designed to counter them.

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