Thank you Ryujin.

Got another question. I have heard of tanks firing an anti-air missile from their main gun. Have you guys heard of this? How does that interface work (as far as targeting)? What guidance system would something like that use? Do they use a sabot?

I haven't seen any dedicated anti-air rounds, just one of a few varieties either being laser guided, lucky shot with conventional rounds or the US Army's MPAT(?) round, but it's not anti-air specific, just has fusing options not available on conventional rounds.

However, not a tanker by trade, so there may be something I haven't seen or heard of.

Matt

I haven't heard of any dedicated anti-air missiles being gun launched, but I'm no expert either.

Some tanks can have gun launched laser guided ATGMs that use the tanks existing optics, laser, and fire control. They could in theory be used to engage helicopters (you can point the laser at anything). After some quick googling it seems the Israeli LAHAT does make some mention of being able to engage helicopters.

"LAHAT is highly effective against a variety of target types, including ground targets, ships and Helicopters at ranges up to 8 km. LAHAT can hit static or moving targets, including moving helicopters with pinpoint accuracy."
http://www.iai.co.il/31015-37347-en/Business_Areas_Military_Land_Precision_Munitions.aspx?btl=1

Would you guys be interested whatsoever in a driver / gunner setup. I was thinking of something similar to the Star Wars Arcade Game setup with a switch that acts as a modifier (to switch from driver to gunner).

It would work like this

Driving
Turn Left to Turn Left
Turn Right to Turn Right
Tilt Forward to Roll Forward
Tilt Backward to Roll Backward.

Gunner
Turn Left to Rotate Left
Turn Right to Rotate Right
Tilt Back to Move Up
Tilt Forward to Move Down

I am still considering button layouts.

Driving
Smoke Generator
Mountain Brake
Transmission Gears
Start Engine

Gunner
Lazing
Change Ammo type
Fire
Reload (if its not done automatically)

Do you see any buttons that are missing?

How could this be used for Tank Commander Functions (TCF) as far as buttons?

Edit: I should have specified that this set up would most benefit more that one person in a tank. Obviously you need to be able to move AND shoot at tbe same time. You could not do both with this controller setup of course. Can you have multiple people in one tank in Steel Beast Pro?

Directly from the manufacturer's website:

http://afvsim.com/contact.htm



Their business model simply does not include the consumer market- they don't want to do it. Evidently they calculate that the costs of manufacturing dies for the mass market isn't lucrative enough for them to recoup their investment. There you have it, but you can contact them directly and ask them to sell you one if you disagree. I understand that no one has been able to do this, though.

Some Russian/Soviet designed tanks can gun launch an ATGM at air targets. They are SACLOS guided just as if they were fired at a ground target, i.e., the gunner has to maintain the missile sight on the target up until impact. This is only practical for a hovering helicopter, you can imagine. They don't shoot high performance radar or IR tracking anti-aircraft missiles.

I'd like to add to that(again), that handles, like those made by AFV-sim are "dual-use Items". Therefor they will have some problems selling them to joe-publick

I'm a bit late to the party, and haven't yet read the entire thread, so forgive me if my post here is redundant.



At the core it's a matter of commercial viability. A plastic stick will require molds to be made. These are very expensive to make (in the mid five-digit range). Once that you have the molds you can crank out a hundred thousand copies at virtually no cost. So, who'd going to buy those hundred thousand control handles?
There is a very real danger that you can sell only a small fraction of them, and then you're stuck with a substantial bill for production and storage.
The alternative is what AFV Sim does. They are milling the parts out of solid aluminum blocks. The initial investment is much lower, but quite naturally the costs for the CNC machine and the aluminum material, the powder coating etc. are much, much higher - way beyond the range of consumer price levels for joysticks.
In addition, Ronin's statement wasn't a "theory". It's a matter of fact that the control handles are considered war material that fall under export restrictions. It may sound insane, but this is the law in the UK. That there are other examples which apparently were sold worldwide without this bureaucratic hassle doesn't render the law invalid. Maybe they came from a different country, or the laws were different at the time, or the authorities didn't look very closely, or maybe the export simply was illegal under law and someone DID go to jail afterwards. I don't know, and AFV Sim doesn't care; the only thing that matters is what the law is today, and that curtails the export of such handles from the UK.



...and you are right about it. In a way, it is (even though you brought up examples of other games that, in the end, cost you about as much though in smaller chunks). We at eSim Games simply are honest about what we want right from the start. There are no subscription costs. We just kindly ask to also consider the value of what we're offering. A pretty solid real-time wargame, more than a dozen highly diverse contemporary armored vehicles replicated with high fidelity (most of which are world-exclusives, actually - especially in the field of infantry fighting vehicles), integrated map and mission editors, an active multiplayer community with virtual units, tons of single player scenarios ready for download at SteelBeasts.com, both cooperative multiplayer games and team on team. About every 15 months there is an upgrade to pay for at $25.-, and usually about two or three minor updates (free) between these upgrades. SB Pro doesn't crash. It's not "bug free", but we try to limit it to those that aren't terribly annoying. We've tripled the headcount of the core team over the last twelve months now that we worked ourselves a bit out of the mire of too many development contracts that beset us in the 2006...2010 period, and that will allow us to gear up the pace of our development work noticeably.
So, all in all I think that we offer good value in return. But value is a highly subjective element, therefore I won't tell you what to think. This is our offer, and it is your privilege as a consumer to decide whether its attractive or not.



For all practical matters, there actually is. You can download and install SB Pro PE for free from here, and there are people at SteelBeasts.com who will borrow you a license so you can try it out.



All I can say is that despite this apparent, glaring disparity, our customers seem to be happy. Don't you wonder why...?

Others have given answers already, but here's "the official reply":


Some vehicles do, provided that the scenario designer set a variable in the scenario to NOT have the vehicle battle ready at mission start. Even then however, starting up a tank is usually less complicated than an airplane with multiple engines. The main focus of Steel Beasts is tactical combat. Army customers also want it for crew procedure training, where commander and gunner are the training audience. Steel Beasts is not a driving simulator (a lot of work would be involved there for comparatively little gain, as far as we can see; the same can be said for a loader's position).


Not yet.
Arguably, as long as the tank isn't on fire, the safest place to stay is inside, and once that it actually is on fire, it's usually too late. There is of course a sweet spot in between, and maybe we'll implement such a feature in the future.


Some vehicles do. Most have smoke grenades.


In most vehicles its always on. Some armies wanted to have the laser key simulated as an educational measure so that the crews treat it like a weapon, other armies are more lenient about it. Eventually we'll simulate it in all vehicles where such a key is used, but leave it plugged in and active by default.


We model the difference of some tanks being able to picot steer while others can't. But by and large all modern tanks rely on some sort of a steering wheel or motorcycle handle bar. Levers to steer tracks individually are a concept of the past. The only vehicle that still does it and which is still in use today that springs to my mind is the M113, and maybe also the T-55 (I have to check that one, though) - arguably the oldest and weakest of their kind.


Automatic transmission all the way. Like I wrote above, SB Pro is no driving simulation.
Frankly, I don't understand the interest of many people in the driver's place. While it is a very important position usually given to the most mature crew member after the vehicle commander, from a gaming perspective there isn't much freedom for your own decisions actually. Bring the vehicle from here to over there. Make it as quick as possible, take a concealed route, and try to not get stuck. That's about it.


With a joystick (or steering wheel and gas pedal) you can fine-control the vehicle speed, yes. Still, don't expect wonders. For normal operation Steel Beasts has five speed settings - top speed, medium, slow, stop, and reverse. The practical reality is that as a vehicle commander you don't need more.


You may open and close hatches separately, but for the normal user interface if you're buttoned up and you give the command to elevate your point of view, there is a delay and an animation of the hatch and then you go to "chin defilade" automatically. I see very little benefit to convolute the user interface more than absolutely necessary. There is only so much that even with a 3D turret interior one can accomplish wehn all that you have are hotkeys on the keyboard and mouse click and drag options. For example, as a Leopard 2 tank commander to open the hatch you need to turn around and use both hands to

1. unlock the hatch
2. elevate it to top position
3. unlock the swivel limiter
4. rotate it
5. push it down, and finally
6. lock it in place

I can see no value in attempting to replicate that with extensive switchology. That's just occupational therapy to divert the player from the important elements, to maintain situational awareness. Striving for high fidelity incurs intelligent choices about which elements may be simplified and which need to be modeled in full, both in order to support the focus of the simulation. And that is tactical combat, above all. That's complicated enough.

Of course!