I appreciate different people have different controller setups and require to be able to tweak them get the best from them in the sim , however.

Various aircraft that we fly in RoF were known to have certain quirks in real life that meant they performed to a lesser degree than might have been hoped. Controllability was one such quirk, with unbalanced controls or controls that performed less than perfectly under certain flight conditions. An example, by no means definitive, was expressed by a pilot flying a restored Pup. He was surprised that the joystick, during normal level flight needed to be pushed well forward, almost to the dashboard. Presumably this would have meant that in a dive the pilot would have had difficulty maintaining the angle of dive as speed increased and more lift was generated ?

Of course, in RoF, we can negate any bad behavior by adjusting the response curves, to some extent muting the vises of some of the planes so that they become more manageable and therefore more potent than they in fact were.

I'm not for one moment suggesting that the response curves in the game are removed, after all it's a game to be enjoyed, just thinking out loud, maybe a better approach (blue sky thinking), that would retain the developers notion of how they expected the aircraft to behave would be served by having no response curves (indeed as the game first was) but instead a calibration utility, in-game, that takes account of different controllers so that, regardless of your controller, the aircraft would perform the same for everyone.

As I said I'm just thinking out loud (I don't have any strong views one way or the other), I thought it was a bit quiet around here so thought I would try and think of something new to discuss that hasn't been raked over several time before.

I used S-curves up until recently (CH Fighterstick, Simpeds), when I decided to go back to the straight linear responses for both controllers (with just a small bit of deadzone on the Fighterstick to filter out unwanted jittering). I was finding that, even with shallow S-curves, the aircraft were too sluggish when compared to historical reports. It means I have to be more subtle with how I move my stick and pedals, but IMO that's a good thing.

A better example of manipulating an aircraft's controls to suit ourselves rather than how it really might have been (I don't know if the Albatross did behave like this but it is useful as an example).

It has been suggested that the Albatross was "pitch" sensitive, it is a fairly easy case to correct this in the responses, meaning that for all the developers efforts to give us an accurate representation of the flight dynamics of the Albatross we can negate all that hard work with a few simple clicks.

The only aircraft that I can think of in the sim that deify response correction (a little bit at least) to get rid of unwanted control inputs are the N11 and N17 that very quickly develop buffeting to their rudders when too much speed is gained.

Not sure why this would be desirable?

Even in real life, people tweak for performance.

I have flat responses currently, the MSFFB2 is a good enough stick that I don't have to lower sensitivity to hit targets. Would your proposal be designed to make my stick better or worse??

Desirable because:

1) Its nice to be able to make sure our controllers are operating at their optimum, but not necessarily at the risk of giving various planes a performance that would have been compromised by the limitations of WW 1 controller theory and actual performance. I think, if indeed it is true about the Albatrosses pitch sensitivity it is a good example of how the game allows us to tweak this undesirable feature out of the equation although I wouldn't claim this was purely confined to the Albatross if indeed any of the planes.

2) Absolutely true,that in real life pilots or mechanics could tweak aircraft to their liking, but it was always within limitations, for example a Zero pilot might adjust his controls as much as he liked, but at high speed his controls would still loose their capacity to perform like they did during normal or slow speeds.

I couldn't even begin to guess about the number of planes that, on paper, the designers considered perfect, but proved to be complete unsalvageable dogs in reality.

I would not propose to make anyone's controllers better or worse, all I am saying, and again I'm just thinking out loud, is that in trying to allow for different controllers and how well they work, are we also allowing pilots to adjust how the aircraft behave as well so that they perform beyond what would have actually been possible. As I mentioned I think the rudder buffet in the N11 and N17 are good examples of structural limitations that cannot be smoothed out in the responses panel.

Damocles has a point - BUT - my stick is crap AND has a very weak center spring so I am forced to compensate via the RoF curve application. Thank goodness I can do so.

I just pretend that I have a skilled rigger who can adjust things.

Somewhat on the same subject: what are likes and dislikes about using "Easy Piloting" vs curves and whatever? Sure seems like an easier solution to all the hassle of setting up each plane to fly "your way".
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Of course custom curves are a good thing if someone finds them useful. We use 6 inch joysticks in place of 2 and a 1/2 foot control columns.

Have you bothered to read the above posts ?

As initially stated, I don't have a problem with response curves to allow for the fact that
a) We use 6" joysticks
b) Not all joysticks or controller setups are created equal or in the first flush of youth.

The point I was trying to make was about whether Response curves allow us to go beyond that and to actually start changing the way some aircraft actually behave, removing or taming their vices, allowing them to become more potent than they actually were. An example, although not to do with controllers, is obviously fuel loads and the propensity to carry minimum quantities in some aircraft in order to tame an aircraft's vices and therefore gain an advantage. I was simply wondering out loud whether a better method of allowing for the variation in type and quality of joysticks would be to have some form of ingame utility that calibrated a joystick, smoothing out any differences or quirks.

Accusations of gaming the game are as old as computer games and not restricted to flight sims or multiplayer, it might be suggested that, like fuel loads, response curves could be abused to game the game and gain an advantage.

I don't see how one can gain an advantage by using curves. It doesn't alter the FM and just allows us to get closer to the "feel" of the real aircraft. For instance, most RoF aircraft are overly twitchy unless an s curve is used on rudder. Similarly, without curves, others require holding the stick forward more than a real pilot would have had to have done (e.g., SE5a, D.VII etc).

I owned and flew a Tiger Moth which initially designed as a Gypsy Moth in the mid twenties. It's specification and performance is just below that of the SE5a. So although I have not flown a WWI or replica WWI plane I have come close. First my system is CH combat stick throttle and CH pedals. Differences I have discovered are the obvious one that the controls are much lighter. I had no trouble adjusting my style to the default stick response curve but found the rudder controls far too twitchy. I suppose because the rudder pedals are much closer together and there is no air resistance flow over the rudder I have to fly without shoes. Even that is too light. I did a turn in the Camel and watched the ball to get balance. With standard curves it took no more than a spasm of the big toe to produce marked changes. So I have flattened that curve considerably. Haven't flown it yet but I'll let you know how it goes.

If you have a force feedback stick the default curves work just fine because the stick tends to self-center.

I tried all kinds of fancy curves, then went back to default and discovered they were fine. Yes, you do have to apply some forward stick pressure with the SE and some others that are especially tail heavy but from everything I've read, you had to do that on the real planes as well.

If you don't have FFB, you probably would benefit from playing with the curves. If you have FFB, the defaults are no problem.

I agree with Suppards on the pedals. They are too twitchy in RoF but they can be dumbed down.