Been playing the other sim recently with the career mode. It looks beautiful and the flight models on the whole feel right, though DR1's flying with half a top missing wing seems odd and you can't mention these things as you get shouted down. Anyway as I was saying the planes are beautiful...though the scenery for me is to comic book like, especially the towns and no mans land looks aswful. This does effect immersion to a point but not the amount I felt was missing in the sim.
I fly a mission and then have no real enthusiasm to fly another, that lets get out there and have anyother go is missing. It for me just doesn't have any immersion at all. Why I can't really be sure, maybe the spawning enemy\planes so you know that they don't exist once they disappear so you know there is nothing else going on in the world. The career mode is OK and the chrome to try and give it some immersion like the character bio's don't really work, it's something you read once maybe and then as it just egts recycled anyway it soon becomes something you don't look at.. I don't want to be told about my character, I have an imagination for that I do want the world I fly in to feel like it's WW1 though. This is where OFF P3 shines and shines brightly. A whole war is going on outside your cockpit. Planes are out doing missions that have nothing todo with you. There is an actaul ground war going on aswell. It has the buckets full of immersion goodness. More immersion than any other sim I've played, as all the others except one or two others which are renowned as classics are very sterile. Thats the word, sterile. It's like the beautiful woman who is great to look at but has zero personality.

With this in mind OFF P4 is the most eagerly anticipated sim for me so far out of 27 years of gaming.

P.S I would have posted this in the other sims forum but I'd just get ripped to bits. To scared to say anything negaticve about that game;)

I agree in most of the things you said.
I prefer flying Pat Wilson's RoF Campaign over the Official Career (beta).
No real immersion in RoF, I would add the dynamic weather system present in OFF.
If the two sims could be merged we would have the ultimate WWI sim!

I'm eagerly anticipating OFF P4...
From what Winder announced in Combat Ace Forum P4 is gonna be a dream come true,
in so many aspects of sim gameplay:

Wanted to pst over there but I forgot my password it for some reason it deosn't recognise my email address!!

The sim sounds amazing. First day purchase.

So the reason you are looking forward to OFF P4 is because you think RoF sucks?

Weird.

I think OFF P4 will be great on its own merits - no need to try to pump it up by dragging another sim down.

Here we go again! Actually it's ALSO in part because of the reasons that Wodin posted that I'm looking foward to OFF P4. I'm not saying that RoF sucks and neither does "Wodin" says that - Only a RoF "fanatic" can "dedicate time" by lurking in other sim forums in order to find the "RoF sucks" words in people that for some reason doesn't appreciate RoF and post the reason why they don't.

So and resuming, I don't see anything in Wodin's words that said that RoF sucks and I completly agree with everything that he says and NO, I don't think that RoF "sucks" but RoF it's simply "NOT MY CUP OF TEA" due to the reasons that Wodin posted - sorry if this makes you feel "sad/frustrated" but you have to accept other people's oppinions even if they go against your favourite game.

Really, it's clear that you don't like OFF (you said it yourself several times before) and it's clear that RoF it's your favourite sim (good for you, I respect that) and it's clear that when there are 2 forums/rooms with each one with a competing/rival game that there always will be people that like one game and dislike the other and that post the reason why is this so, so there always be people in the OFF forum that like OFF and don't like RoF (and post reasons for that) as well as there will always be people in the RoF forum that don't like OFF (and post reasons for that) and therefore I'm sure that there are a lot of comments in the RoF forum with people saying that don't like OFF (and post reasons for that)!
And course there are also people that like both games which is definitly NOT the case of me, you and Wodin where I and Wodin like OFF and not RoF and you that likes RoF and not OFF, which is a perfectly normal thing!

And so what if I was looking forward to OFF because I thought RoF sucked? That's my prerogative.

The difference is that I wouldn't have posted in the RoF forum because it would be considered trolling whereas you feel the need to sarcastically put the OP in their place in the OFF forum.

What you see as dragging a sim down is just that persons honest opinion.

And I have to say that the OP wasn't actually dragging RoF down but was talking about a lack of immersion (for them) and we all know how you feel about that!

I have to agree about the immersion thing.

I've not played RoF, other than a few flights with my inadequate rig which I'm sure didn't allow RoF to shine, still less any sort of campaign, although as I recall when I did try RoF there wasn't really a campaign worth talking about (which I hope is now rectified).

The reason I'm still enthralled by OFF is that it does have a superb campaign system, which lends itself to my meagre talents for story telling. I want my pilots to have a life independent of my input and OFF has been constructed so that this is the case. My RFC pilot Vic Timm has, miraculously, been in service since 1915, and thus I've been able to watch the air war progress and evolve over a couple of game years, and I can certainly attest to the skill and accuracy of the OFF team in terms of the ebb and flow of battle, as well as their assiduous work in ensuring that you remain utterly paranoid throughout!

I'm looking forward to P4, given all the teasers I've seen, and, if Dart's reading, I very much look forward to RoF having a campaign system worthy of the name (like RB3D and OFF) and also to the devs filling out all the gaps in the flying roster. Once that's done, it'll be, I'm certain, superb and as a fan of WWI sims will (once I have a decent PC!) take it's place on my rig.

That's odd you mention having an inadequate rig for RoF, yet it shines with OFF3? My experience is the exact opposite with a 5 year old quad-core. As RoF grows though, I know it is about time to pass this old workstation onto my son so we can sim together!

Regardless, what 'immersion' means to one is not what it means to someone else. The devs of OFF have several years head start with their sim, so I expect 'immersion' (whatever that means to you) will even out with time.

Bottom line is I feel very fortunate to have a choice between two excellent WWI sims to fly. I have supported them both, as well as First Eagles.
Why this petty bickering goes on and on ad nauseam is beyond me. Get over it, enjoy what you have, buy them all if you can...

I fly both ROF and OFF. Both simulations have their respective charms. I find both to be quite immersive only in different ways. As much as I like the OFF scenery and how it makes me feel that there is a war going on around me, it falls short in that there is no way to navigate unless I have that annoying radar circle thing on in the corner of my screen. OFF scenery lacks distinctive landmarks and the OFF map is absolutely terrible, looking like a map from an old Atari game. As much as I enjoy OFF, I hate being forced to use the radar circle and fly along the lines in order to complete my mission successfully. Does anyone know if this issue will be addressed in phase four?

Why fight about it? I don't understand single devotion to one sim/game anyway. I'm puzzled by that. I have all three WWI sims, including FE2. Here's what I get out of each/how I use 'em.

For quick and painless fun (translation: easy flight models and immediate action) I boot up First Eagles 2.

For the most authentic flight modeling and spectacular graphics pleasure, for a few minutes of solo off-line combat, I boot up ROF

For full-blown immersion on a war battlefield, and when I want to play for a longer stretch of time than a single dogfight (or two), I boot up OFF P3-BH&H.

It all depends on my mood, I guess. And I'm not much for online. I tried ROF online and was shot down quickly every time. I don't play any one sim often or long enough to be become good enough to be competitive online. That goes for racing sims too, so I don't bother with multiplayer. I only want a flight or racing sim to have excellent single player. The standard A.I. usually gives me a pretty good battle and a lot of fun.

It's hard for me to even think about dedicating a lot of time to one particular sim. There are so many PC games including sims, tactical first-person shooters, the Total War series, and on and on. I want to try them all.