#3427579 - 11/06/11 07:22 PM
Re: More new screenshots for Steel Beasts Professional PE 2.6
[Re: Charlie901]
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Kontakt5
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WOW! No shadows and 2D "Sprite"-based particle effects really detracts from the wonderful vehicle models....I understand that this sim is based on Military Contract sales but since it's "ADVERTISED" and sold on the CIVILIAN COMMERCIAL MARKET it should have shadows and 3D particle effects in this day and age. I applaud the move to 3D non "Sprite"-based infantry as a move in a positive direction. Everyone wants to see all of this- including yours truly. I remember when there was some news back in 2002 or so when a T-72 was coming soon with the inevitable release of Steel Beasts 2. Well, it wasn't until 2006 when Steel Beasts Pro was available, and it's now late 2011 when a T-72 is only now coming around. This says something about the type of person who has interest in the subject matter who has stuck with it waiting patiently all these years; although we've all wanted all these improvements, we still held out, because it's really worth it still. That said, Steel Beasts seems to have reached a turning point. Updates are coming faster than they had in the past, more content is piling in faster than most people with a life and a job can practically delve into and master. So nice things like shadows and particle effects will likely come sooner rather than later compared to what happened in the past. I'm glad to see guod paying attention and helping out eSim with coverage here, too, that's really class.
No one gets out of here alive.
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#3429645 - 11/09/11 03:32 AM
Re: More new screenshots for Steel Beasts Professional PE 2.6
[Re: Ssnake]
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 133
aleader
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Regina, SK - the city that rhy...
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Ssnake, that was an incredibly intelligent, mature response to my post and I appreciate it. I have a deep affection for tank sims from my first days playing M1TP, M1TP2, Panzer Commander, Panzer Elite, and a few utter crap games in between (I believe one was called iPanzer 44). And I agree. Why anyone would want to go back and play those is beyond me. A poster at the Armchair general clarified the issue for me. This is a tank 'simulation.' I would bet that driving a tank in a field (muddy, dry, whatever) is very different from what we see in SBPro. Tanks make ruts, spray dirt, and generally cause extreme amounts of damage to everything around them. I still do not get that sense with SBPro. If you like ultra hardcore simulations of 20 minutes of dial fiddling and don't care at all about the immersion factor, then you are in the Falcon 4 crowd and in the extreme minority.
M1TP2 was released in 1998 with sprites. 3 years later ( a lifetime in PC games) SB was released with the very same sprites. 10 years after that SBPro is still using the same sprites (yes, the new infantry look very good). Longbow 2 was released in 1997 and was cutting edge at the time, and was also about as hardcore a chopper sim as you could get (I played it to death, even though it was tough). 15 years later, DCS Black Shark is night and day graphically, but with even more hardcore fidelity and functionality. Why can't we have a tank sim reflective of 2011? The sound is phenomenal (good on you for giving that some love), the gameplay is obviously spot on. You're so close to the pinnacle of a classic tank sim. That's all I'm saying. If you give SBPro the 'eye-candy' (immersion) treatment it deserves, I'll pay $200 for it.
I mean, I guess it would just be a guy who you know, grabs bananas and runs. Or, um, a banana that grabs things. I don't know. Why would a banana grab another banana? Those are the kind of questions I just don't want to answer. -Michael Bluth
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#3429770 - 11/09/11 08:27 AM
Re: More new screenshots for Steel Beasts Professional PE 2.6
[Re: aleader]
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Joined: Dec 1999
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Ssnake
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Germoney
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This is a tank 'simulation.' I would bet that driving a tank in a field (muddy, dry, whatever) is very different from what we see in SBPro. Maybe with better graphics we could create a higher immersion for some players. That alone is worth it (and, as I wrote, we will continue to give SB Pro better looks, the transition to 3D characters is but a first step). Those that have been on a tank however - be it as professional soldiers like me, or as conscripts like many others - will to a large degree "appreciate" better looks, but it'll do little for extra immersion for them because no matter what, you simply can't substitute or synthesize certain things. I tend to be cautious with predictions, but I think I can say that for the foreseeable future, it can't be done at all. I wrote a chapter in the user manual about the limitations of simulating tanks in general. Form a training perspective, immersion alone does not make good training. In the Gadget Show they recently combined a dome projection, a universal direction treadmill, and a battery of paintball sentry guns á la "Aliens" (extended version) to shoot the player while he was playing some shooter game. They agreed that this was the best computer game experience, ever - yet I have to question whether zinging a student with paintball guns really would improve training results. Maybe as an educational measure it could help, were it not that there are laws against physical punishment in most armies, so it's a no-no. You're so close to the pinnacle of a classic tank sim. I have thought a while whether I should give this retort because it can, again, be misunderstood as arrogance. But I think I can say without a bad conscience that there has never been a tank simulation on the (commercial/computer game) market that came even close to Steel Beasts in any area, except eye candy. Maybe one day there will be a better simulation available. But for more than a decade now we've been in a league of our own. Most of the time you spend looking through a scope where the least that is on your mind is the lack of shadows, or other eye candy. You try to concentrate finding the #%&*$# that just took out your wingman, and nail him first before he'll get you. A significant part of the timer you'll be looking at the map screen, trying to read the tactical situation to get the timing right for your units' next moves. You notice all these deficits in the screenshots and YouTube videos because they can only transport eye candy, but very rarely the excitement of (simulated) combat. It's one thing to see the video of British squaddies being strafed by an A-10 (and surviving it), and quite another to really being there. Or the difference between certain adult movies and actually being together with your loved one. While we are all visual animals, there's only so much that a screen can transport. Like I said, we'll do more in the field of better visuals. But I'm absolutely convinced that we already have a great package that is worth every dime. Well, I shall post a few more screenshots today to bring this thread back on track.
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#3430007 - 11/09/11 04:26 PM
Re: More new screenshots for Steel Beasts Professional PE 2.6
[Re: Ssnake]
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Joined: May 2001
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Wicked
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Germany and the Netherlands
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I shall post a few more screenshots today to bring this thread back on track. ... in the AAR forum. Very nice Can troops use civil trucks as transport?
Hänschen klein ging allein In die weite Welt hinein.
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#3435655 - 11/17/11 01:40 AM
Re: More new screenshots for Steel Beasts Professional PE 2.6
[Re: citizen guod]
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Joined: Aug 2001
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streakeagle
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1) This is such a small niche market that no amount of graphical improvements will have any significant impact on sales. 2) Those who would be willing to pay for graphical improvements probably own the game already. So how is such a small company going to afford the effort it takes to make all of these changes UNLESS contracted by a large, wealthy commercial/government customer? I have to agree with Ssnake: there is no substitute for Steel Beasts Pro if you want to SIMULATE modern armored warfare. If you want to play a shooter game whose focus is graphics and gameplay rather than realism, there are countless options. If Steel Beasts Pro natively supported interfacing with the ArmaA 2 series in a way that retains its armor simulation model but allows ArmA 2 to provide the infantry modeling, that would be an awesome simulation AND game. What ArmA 2 lacks in realism, it compensates with immersion except for some physics modeling glitches that date back to the original Operation Flashpoint game. I assume that their new helo sim that evolved from the OFP/ArmA series game engine is probably the best helo sim option presently available. Hopefully, it will integrate with the ArmA series so that the high fidelity infantry combat can be mixed with decent helo sim modeling... If the market doesn't collapse, I see a very bright future in professional military grade sims that are being released in tandem as commercial products
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#3436001 - 11/17/11 04:41 PM
Re: More new screenshots for Steel Beasts Professional PE 2.6
[Re: robmypro]
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Joined: Dec 1999
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Ssnake
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Germoney
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What needs to happen is an industry push to make an open battlefield. I'm not sure who should take the lead there, and with what kind of a business model. Only a pay to play/subscription model comes to mind, some sort of a MS Flight Simulator, just server based. But then the question is, if you make all extra content as something to buy separately, would the players actually be willing to do it, and wouldn't they end up paying a lot more than they do right now (subscription fees plus extra payments for vehicles and other content)? I'm not sure if something like an open cooperative would work. You need to have one strong player to set up the entire market, and that player then needs to hope that other developers will join in to create modules instead of entire applications. I'm not sure if that is attractive enough. From an artist's point of view you lose a lot of creative freedom by submitting to some other company's rules, both commercially and with what they actually allow you to make (engine/content limitations). Armies are willing to pay more money for certain standardizations, but there's still a long way to go before an open standard emerges that is also meaningful and mature enough for broad commercialization. Don't hold your breath for it. It would be an environment ... which allowed something like Steel Beasts to survive. We're doing well, don't worry. Thanks for your concerns, but we managed to stay in the market over the last twelve years and are in better shape than ever, both in finances and manpower. The best is yet to come. The market for sim products is just not big enough for every developer to tackle the entire thing. May well be, but it's difficult to compromise between companies about engines and content to create one common product. I'm not saying that it is impossible - but rather unlikely. It worked with MS Flight Simulator for a while because there was one big corporation to establish the market, and at the same time that is exactly the reason why some developers would never want to join such a party. It is almost inevitable that there will be asymmetries in financial power and in the desired end-goals for all parties involved that make it questionable how long such an alliance might work out (see general Game Theory about that point).
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#3436644 - 11/18/11 03:13 PM
Re: More new screenshots for Steel Beasts Professional PE 2.6
[Re: Ssnake]
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Joined: May 2001
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Wicked
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Here's some more stuff...: Some sign of hope for the Abrams players, and gunnery in the Challenger 2. Watch it in HD on the Steel Beasts Channel at YouTube. Very nice Thanks for sharing.
Hänschen klein ging allein In die weite Welt hinein.
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#3436797 - 11/18/11 07:30 PM
Re: More new screenshots for Steel Beasts Professional PE 2.6
[Re: enigma6584]
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 649
Hartford688
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Very, very cool Ssnake. You guys have gone to town on this upgrade. I saw 3D interiors for gunners position for Abrams and Bradley, beautiful gun sight for Challenger and of course a unbelievalbly beautiful 3D interior for that T-72. I've already okayed the purchase with the wife... ...now when can I send my money to you? Is it December yet? Is it? Is it? I'm very much looking forward to this release. Hopefully as soon as possible
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#3437330 - 11/19/11 04:11 PM
Re: More new screenshots for Steel Beasts Professional PE 2.6
[Re: citizen guod]
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,154
Bulletstop
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Littleton, Co
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this is gonna rock, I bet they MP side is gonna have a field day with the t-72's.
Bullet
Specs home built I7 870 Lynnfield Chip at stock speed 2.93 with Evga P55FTW system board, A BFG GTX275 Vid card, 4Gigs Corsair Dominator Mem 2600+, 1.3 TB on 2 WD Hard drives, Corsair H50 water cooler.X-65F with peddals and Tir 4 track clip pro One badass machine... A truism "liberals, who believe that everyone should categorically agree with them because their theoretical positions are "a higher truth" than the positions of any person out there living in and interacting with the real world."
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#3437506 - 11/19/11 10:44 PM
Re: More new screenshots for Steel Beasts Professional PE 2.6
[Re: Hartford688]
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,109
TankHunter
Misanthropic Peon
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Misanthropic Peon
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Very, very cool Ssnake. You guys have gone to town on this upgrade. I saw 3D interiors for gunners position for Abrams and Bradley, beautiful gun sight for Challenger and of course a unbelievalbly beautiful 3D interior for that T-72. I've already okayed the purchase with the wife... ...now when can I send my money to you? Is it December yet? Is it? Is it? I'm very much looking forward to this release. Hopefully as soon as possible December can't come soon enough.
l'Audace, toujours l'audace
I don’t have pet peeves; I have major, psychotic hatreds. - George Carlin
Even if you have a crown and sit at a throne In the end you will have nothing Even if you are destined for great riches In the end you will return to the dust
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#3437630 - 11/20/11 04:00 AM
Re: More new screenshots for Steel Beasts Professional PE 2.6
[Re: citizen guod]
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,054
Cworth
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Pennsylvania
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Looking good.
I really need to get back into this sim.Stopped playing a month before before patch 2.538.Put it on the shelf and forgot about it.
People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do.
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#3549287 - 04/02/12 06:02 PM
Re: More new screenshots for Steel Beasts Professional PE 2.6
[Re: Charlie901]
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 53
Sulman
Junior Member
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Hampshire, UK
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WOW! No shadows and 2D "Sprite"-based particle effects really detracts from the wonderful vehicle models....I understand that this sim is based on Military Contract sales but since it's "ADVERTISED" and sold on the CIVILIAN COMMERCIAL MARKET it should have shadows and 3D particle effects in this day and age. I applaud the move to 3D non "Sprite"-based infantry as a move in a positive direction. You need to make a choice: Sound engineering fundamentals and a very high standard of simulation, or superficial polish. The latter can always be done with time. History has continually shown that you cannot have both, with very few exceptions. The reality of the simulation market is that time and again products (across all genres) are released that look amazing but the fundamental mechanics have problems. The forums are full of posts that complain about these things, but all are in agreement that said titles always look pretty good. I know which I prefer. Hats off to Esim for always taking the professional approach.
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