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#3435267 - 11/16/11 11:38 AM Re: Review: DCS: Black Shark 2 [Re: guod]
EinsteinEP Offline
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Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 2907
Loc: Tucson, AZ
Without an infinite budget, infinite resources, and infinite time, no project will ever be truly "complete" to all observers, but, as the saying goes, sometimes you have to shoot the engineers and start selling cars.

That said, many of the issues folks bring up against the DCS products is valid. As I understand it, they have a bug-tracking feature where they keep track of even "minor" bugs and tweaks and re-consider them for incorporation for each patch/update. With the finite budget, resources, and time problem, the developers have to choose which bugs get fixed. One specific fix may only take an hour to integrate and test, but when you have dozens of these little items in addition to significant fixes that require days of integration, the tradeoff decision becomes easy. Since we're not privvy to those discussions and decisions, it may seem like the "easy" fixes are being deliberately overlooked and ignored, but that's not what's really happening. There's a much larger picture than what we see.
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#3435298 - 11/16/11 12:06 PM Re: Review: DCS: Black Shark 2 [Re: guod]
bogusheadbox Offline
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Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 1410
@einstein, yes i am aware there will be a bigger picture. I am not asking for perfection, just some adressing to the bugs that are not fixed that will most likely come in another pay for patch. I am not young like some of the posters here and i do understand the concepts of business.

@WynnTT. I won't get left behind. As i said before, all i have to do is make one purchase every 4-6 years and i will still be current without spending a shed load of money in the process.

Anyway, there will be fanbois and there will be haters and there will be those in between. I hope you all enjoy.

Regards,

Bogus.
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#3435520 - 11/16/11 04:48 PM Re: Review: DCS: Black Shark 2 [Re: bogusheadbox]
Taipan Offline
Sim Addict
Member

Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 498
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: bogusheadbox
the dual hydraulics failure was only one thing. You may be happy with it, but i am not. I want the fidelity from it.

There are many things in the KA that we can't do due to broken items.
Sure if you are happy with the basics then you most likely won't take heed of the indepth items that make a simulator a simulator aside from a flight model and clickable cockpit.

But the fact remains. They are still there and will we have to pay again for them to be fixed ?


On the other issue, i have no problem with the sim moving forward. I can safely say that i think we we all want it to. However, it has moved a long way away from the core ideolgy that DCS was supposed to be a core base to where each flyable adds on.

At the moment everything is a stand alone release that may or may not tie in with all the other releases, no guarantee. This is not what was advertised or planned or advised to the public.

So, fair enough, if you only have one flyable then this route is not really an issue. Just pay to upgrade (with or without bug fixes) and all is hunky dorey.

However, if you like to have all the flyables, then you have a costly and a somewhat funky way of trying to keep all this together.

AkA, black shark version 10, with dcs version 9 with lockon version 6 with f-18 version 3 with f-18 version 4...... adnausium.

--------------

Don't get me wrong, i like the progress ED are trying to make, but unfortunately for me (a long time supporter waaaaaay back in the day well before DCS) I am not going to purchase any upgrades or any further flyables, until i understand where all this is moving to. When i find a common ground that i understand ED will take this then i will decide how many flyables i will purchase to obtain value for money and cohesion with further upgrades.

As an example. (instead of purchase all the flyables which is what i would have done). I can easily hold off an purchase the latest iteration every 4 years. Ok, i will only get multiplayer capability until next upgrade.... but hey ho... thats the price of fracturing.


Bogushead your two points are at odds with each other. Firstly you say you want very high fidelity above and beyond what any other game delivers. Then you go on to say adnauseum about how to pay for it going forward?

If you want something close to commercial/military grade you should be rejoicing they have found a way to continue the line.
It's like a subscription method but cheaper, way cheaper than iRacing or anything like that and way more detailed too.

My previous point still stands - marketing, sales, politics, packaging, version numbers are all nonsense and don't affect the sim experience. Hell they may even make it possible to improve and fix more bugs. If I have BS 10, a-10 9, FC8 it will be wonderful not "ad nauseum". You know why? Because there are 7 more titles there which means seven more flyable high fidelity experiences.

And forget the idea of having them as plugin flyables to the original DCS, that idea is gone, move on.

When you fire up the game and get in the cockpit, packaging don't mean #%&*$#.

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#3435528 - 11/16/11 04:59 PM Re: Review: DCS: Black Shark 2 [Re: bogusheadbox]
WynnTTr Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 594
Originally Posted By: bogusheadbox
@einstein, yes i am aware there will be a bigger picture. I am not asking for perfection, just some adressing to the bugs that are not fixed that will most likely come in another pay for patch. I am not young like some of the posters here and i do understand the concepts of business.

@WynnTT. I won't get left behind. As i said before, all i have to do is make one purchase every 4-6 years and i will still be current without spending a shed load of money in the process.

Anyway, there will be fanbois and there will be haters and there will be those in between. I hope you all enjoy.

Regards,

Bogus.


That's 3-5 years that you won't be flying their latest sim for the saving of a few dollars. It's your money though and whatever floats your boat. All I know is I'll be happy flying whatever they bring out that day instead of waiting half a decade for the next aircraft.

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#3436141 - 11/17/11 02:53 PM Re: Review: DCS: Black Shark 2 [Re: bogusheadbox]
enigma6584 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 3904
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Originally Posted By: bogusheadbox


Anyway, there will be fanbois and there will be haters and there will be those in between. I hope you all enjoy.

Regards,

Bogus.


Oh I will. I'll get years of enjoyment doing something I could not do in real life. All for the price of dinner for two at the local diner...and that dinner only lasts a few hours.

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#3436277 - 11/17/11 06:15 PM Re: Review: DCS: Black Shark 2 [Re: guod]
Force10 Offline
I'm just a
Member

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: CA
Seeing the posts here I can tell that DCS's strategy is working. Pretty soon it will be standard for us to pay for patches that only include bug fixes. Were not there yet, but you can tell the future will be them citing "finite" resources and "unexpected" length of time to fix bugs and a lot of folks here will hand over their money with that glazed look in their eye's and ridicule those that oppose it.
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#3436362 - 11/17/11 08:26 PM Re: Review: DCS: Black Shark 2 [Re: Force10]
WynnTTr Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 594
Originally Posted By: Force10
Seeing the posts here I can tell that DCS's strategy is working. Pretty soon it will be standard for us to pay for patches that only include bug fixes. Were not there yet, but you can tell the future will be them citing "finite" resources and "unexpected" length of time to fix bugs and a lot of folks here will hand over their money with that glazed look in their eye's and ridicule those that oppose it.

Cool. Can you look in your crystal ball and tell me next week's lotto numbers? I need more time to fly all these sims.

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#3436374 - 11/17/11 08:45 PM Re: Review: DCS: Black Shark 2 [Re: WynnTTr]
Force10 Offline
I'm just a
Member

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 1403
Loc: CA
Originally Posted By: WynnTTr
Originally Posted By: Force10
Seeing the posts here I can tell that DCS's strategy is working. Pretty soon it will be standard for us to pay for patches that only include bug fixes. Were not there yet, but you can tell the future will be them citing "finite" resources and "unexpected" length of time to fix bugs and a lot of folks here will hand over their money with that glazed look in their eye's and ridicule those that oppose it.

Cool. Can you look in your crystal ball and tell me next week's lotto numbers? I need more time to fly all these sims.



Since you will need the money to pay for bug fix patches...here ya go: 12 8 31 22 28 19
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#3436388 - 11/17/11 09:08 PM Re: Review: DCS: Black Shark 2 [Re: Force10]
BeachAV8R Offline
Lifer

Registered: 01/22/01
Posts: 22676
Loc: KCLT
Originally Posted By: Force10
Seeing the posts here I can tell that DCS's strategy is working.


Yeah..cause Jane's and Microprose are doing really stellar these days..ED should adopt their business model and become really successful!

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#3436389 - 11/17/11 09:10 PM Re: Review: DCS: Black Shark 2 [Re: enigma6584]
BeachAV8R Offline
Lifer

Registered: 01/22/01
Posts: 22676
Loc: KCLT
Originally Posted By: enigma6584
Oh I will. I'll get years of enjoyment doing something I could not do in real life. All for the price of dinner for two at the local diner...and that dinner only lasts a few hours.


And that doesn't include a bottle of wine with dinner. Cripes..$30 for probably a $10 bottle of wine. I hate drinking on date nights..

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