Those avionics are far from simple.

They're crappy. They're crappy old stuff that you had to do a lot of manual things with to get anything done - THAT is why you had a back-seater. They'd actually be /more/ complex. Not that the F-15/16/18 had a requirement for huge avionics automation, especially the radar, so that one pilot could operate it as compared to older aircraft.

I hate to put this to you this way, but please make 'some terrain like Nevada' and then come back and say that $20 for all that work is a rip-off. I quadruple dog-dare you.

Actually, you're quite right! I was thinking more along the lines of FC2 when I wrote that, vs DCS, where this 'crappiness' could have been fudged in the way it was modeled...

Oh well, does that mean we're stuck with props for legends?

Ian

You never know, early jets aren't exactly easy to fly and fight in.

Whatever happens, you are guaranteed to have your hands full in a dogfight.

Nate

I'd like to see a terrain other than the Crimea. But I know it won't happen.

I've been flying the same skies since 1998.

Um ... nevada?

Nevada's okay, but I was thinking more like Iraq/Afghanistan/Pakistan, etc.

Now that a new terrain engine is coming, I would expect various other terrains to happen - either by ED or third parties. Many have tried and ended up stopping. Manchuria was in the works by an FC fan for example.

In any case, personally I think there could be more interesting theatres than Iraq/Afganistan - Pakistan maybe, Iran, Korea, perhaps somewhere in south Africa or say, around south America ...

Ooh, South America or Africa would be great! My favorite campaigns in Falcon 3.0 with the expansions were the Panama/ Nicaragua, Pakistan/ Kashmir, and Kurile Islands theaters of operation.

Its a ripoff. The entire DCS games cost $60, terrian is not worth 33% of that. Sorry.

I'd paid $20 or so for some improvements over FC2 + some extra content (terrian). $20 for just terrian? No thanks. Especially if it is filled with the DRM system that ED products tend to have. I'd pay $5 maximum.

Depending on what "improvements" they are offering me, I don't mind shelling out another $20.

But it greatly depends on what I'm getting. I would like to see them implement simplified avionics that truly work, like F4AF's did, or Jane's F-15, for us casual players.

I'm still waiting for you to create terrain and come back and tell me it's a rip-off then. Until that time, I consider your opinion uneducated

I think most people forget that sims are a niche market, therefor higher prices are necessary since the costs of making these games are huge but the profits not that high.

I 100% agree but a more simplified flight model for me instead.The weapon systems are one of the best parts of the game for me.If they could appeal to casual players a little more,this game would be the battlefield of air combat games.

Think of how they could reach out to the Ace Combat crowd if they did that.

I know ed is all about high fidelity but I don't see why they don't just try to attract both types of players casual and hardcore,they already have an arcade mode and sim mode in the game.I would also like the gameplay speed increased as well to add more intensity.I bet ed would really see a increase of revenue if they did this and the hardcore players would still have their mode.

They do though - that's why the FC series is around.



It isn't that simple. A study sim is a study sim, and bringing it down to FC level is not exactly easy or desirable in terms of programming - for now, I'll leave my comments at that.

It's even easier than that, just tell him to have a look what a good-quality, payware M$FS terrain can cost (anywhere from 40 to 130 Euros on Amazon, to provide an answer straight away). Sure, many of those add-ons will include more area than the Nevada map, but quite literally NONE of them comes with a new engine (so no, it's not just terrain) and neither do they add any new theatres that were not in the basic sim already - they simply increase detail. If anything, his comparison merely exposes once more how dirt cheap DCS aircraft modules really are for what you get in return. Arguably too cheap - it's not the $20 that's too much, it's the $60 which is too low.

I'd pay $20 just for the Caucasus theatre to get EDGE'd!

You guys crack me up. Whining about appealing to everybody. There are already flight "games" for the arcade crowd. If you speed up the gameplay you have arcade. Most people want at least SOME realism. I admit to not having time to spend on one sim, so extreme hardcore becomes a problem for me. But I appreciate the effort that goes into this "niche" market, and I'm a regular buyer. I don't even consider FC to be sim-lite. It certainly is not arcade.

Third Wire has plenty of excellent sim-lite titles for the modern air combat fighter jockey. Stop complaining about hardcore. Some people want nothing less.

Air Combat (and other console ported titles) = arcade
Third Wire titles = sim-lite
ED = hardcore (by comparison) with both study and survey sims

See? Something for everyone. You can't make one sim that appeals to both hardcore and casual. Third Wire's Strike Fighter series comes closest, but most hardcore peep find it TOO casual.

So pick your category (arcade, sim-lite/casual, or hardcore) and pick the sims in that category. Stop whining about sims in other categories and asking that they be "dumbed down" to suit you. DCS is too hardcore for me, but I don't complain about it. They shouldn't have to dumb it down for me. If I get frustrated, I can play one of the other titles. It's hard to master hardcore when you only have 20 - 30 minutes a day to play a sim (I play other games too). But I buy the hardcore stuff anyway, to support the industry.

When you try to manufacture products that don't alienate anyone, you inevitably wind up with something mediocre and bland. Look at Chevrolet. With the possible exception of the Corvette, which isn't intended as a mass market vehicle, is there anything blander than a Chevrolet? I'll take a polarizing design or product every time. You either love it just the way it is or hate it.

Forget trying to appeal to everybody.

Then why did ED toss in a game avionics and flight mode for every title they've made?

If what you say is true, then ED shouldn't have even bothered. Right?

Point is, they already have a game mode, I'd just like to see them tweak it a little.