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#3431647 - 11/11/11 05:16 AM Questions on going backwards and the rudder
UUMickey Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 5
They are not related, I just have two questions about it smile

New pilot, recently reinstalled BS1 v1.0.2. When last we left our hero he was able to perform rudimentary flight maneuvers and actually stop and land. He can't anymore. This is likely from lack of practice. However he now has rudder pedals as well.

When taking off with the stick in the neutral position, the first thing the helicopter always does is begin flying backwards. I counter this with some nose down but too much of that makes me fly forwards, thus defeating the point of a hover. The on-screen controller display (right-ctrl enter) says the controls are centered. Is this typical behavior of the flight model or is it due to poor piloting?

Second unrelated question, about the rudder. It is my understanding in a single rotor helicopter that the rudder pedals are used to counter torque from the main rotor and turn the helicopter at low speeds or in a hover. Pedal input is not used during normals turns. Or is it? In the KA-50, I see that the rudder pedals will also turn the helicopter in a hover but do I also need to use the pedals during a turn while in motion (a la fixed wing coordinated turn)? I notice that when I press the pedals the KA-50 tends to keep turning in that direction until I over compensate and press it the other way. Normal?

I seem to spend a lot of time flying sideways or diagonally smile

Mick

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#3431824 - 11/11/11 09:45 AM Re: Questions on going backwards and the rudder [Re: UUMickey]
EbonySeraphim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 18
Loc: Fairfax, Virginia, USA
FYI - the KA-50 achieves it's yaw from both the control surface (which is only effective in significant forward flight) and torque differential between the upper and lower rotor (which I would also guess has less control in faster forward flight).

I think you're experiencing Newton's second law(inertia) in rotation form, and it's only happening at lower (near hover) speeds. While you hold down the rudder in either direction, it adds torque in the appropriate direction which translates into rotational acceleration. Once you let go, you stop adding rotational acceleration, but your rotational speed less holds constant unless you counter it. The body and tail of the KA-50 add drag and causes the spin to slow down over time due to drag, but drag isn't enough to bring the spin to a a full stop within a reasonable amount of time.

It's kind of like if you drive a car up to speeds of 70mph on a level surface. Let go of the accelerator and put it in neutral. At that speed, you're going to slow down mostly because of your car's drag. By the time you're down to 5-10mph your car will be losing speed primarily due to the friction in the drive train and the wheels themselves.

Maybe I'm wrong on some point there...but at least I think it's accurate =)
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#3431879 - 11/11/11 10:53 AM Re: Questions on going backwards and the rudder [Re: UUMickey]
OlafM Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 90
If I remember correctly, there is also a little pecularity of the autopilot concerning rotation:

If angular velocity is greater than a certain threshold when releasing trim, the AP will try to maintain angular velocity. Only for slower turns will it hold heading. You might want to read up the details in the manual, it should be explained in the section about the AP.

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#3432322 - 11/12/11 12:27 AM Re: Questions on going backwards and the rudder [Re: UUMickey]
EtherealN Offline
Member

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 123
Originally Posted By: UUMickey
Pedal input is not used during normals turns. Or is it?


It is, for all helicopters, with very few exceptions, as far as I know. (The exceptions being any helicopter that has systems similar to some jets where an AP channel ensures coordination automatically.)

In forward flight, you fly a helicopter pretty much the same as you fly a fixed-wing. The main difference really is that you have to maintain some nose-down attitude since your lifting surface is also your thrust surface, though many helicopters actually have the rotor shaft tilted slightly forward such that a level attitude on the fuselage will translate into some forward movement. (My guess is that this is mainly meant to reduce the drag of the airframe when going really fast, since that would require more tilt and thus present a larger profile to the air.)


Edited by EtherealN (11/12/11 12:28 AM)

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#3432455 - 11/12/11 06:48 AM Re: Questions on going backwards and the rudder [Re: UUMickey]
EinsteinEP Offline
Air Combat & General Aviation Editor
Member

Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 1790
Loc: Tucson, AZ
For a typical level turn in a small helo, the helo will yaw into the turn, unlike a fixed-wing aircraft which needs the additional input to maintain a coordinated turn. For most cases, the use of anti-torque pedals in a turn for a small helo isn't necessary. Larger helos (like the Black Shark) will need some help rounding out the turn to avoid a slip condition.

http://www.dynamicflight.com/flight_maneuvers/turns/

Tip: watch the slip indicator (aka, "the little ball in the tube") when making a turn and use just enough pedal pressure to keep it centered.
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