Help, my head is spinning. Yes, I read the "Which F4 Should I get", and much, much more at various places on the net.

I am currently using Falcon 4 AF. I tried FF5.5.5. It was awful, terrible graphics, plane uncontrollable, on exit my desktop icons were rearranged. I also tried BMS F4, I forget the main reason why I junked it, hokey opening screens for one, and uncontrollable plane and freeze.

Any advice?

I have fairly low requirements. Fly some training missions, make a few custom missions, etc. I like to start the sim, get in the air and do a little air to air stuff.

My system is a Windows 7 Pro 64 bit, I7 Intel core, 6 GB ram, ATI Radeon HD 5700 video, Samsung SyncMaster 226BW monitor.

Thanks for any help, Jim

BMS, king of the crop for online stability and realism. Working (and stunning) 3D pit, HDR.
FF5 for singleplayer eyecandy. No 3D pit.
AF for nostalgia.

You installed BMS with the original F4 right? Not AF, seeing as you can't.

What?

FF 5.5.5 does have a 3D pit... not as good as BMS, I admit, but it's VERY serviceable if compared to the one in F4:AF. Plus you can fly WAY more planes if that's your thing.... I only fly F-16 (bangs fist on chest...) OH!...and the multiplayer DOES work...it only takes more tweaking than BMS...which by the way I love.

And by the way...the AF campaigns are WAY superior to anything BMS or FF have.

To the OP... you are obviously a little over your head. Post specific issues, and there will be always someone willing to offer advice. FF 5.5.5 is not Nvidia friendly, but since you have an ATI/AMD, it's should be all good. If you had image quality issues with BMS, you might not be configuring your Control Center options to Application Controlled. But since you don't give any hints, I will not guess... Give (current settings) and ye shall receive.

However, with that said, if you just want to "do some air to air stuff", these are not the droids you are looking for. You'll be happier in AF. The learning curve is steep...but if you have patience the rewards are well worth it.

So...do you even have a joystick? Not to mention,a proper HOTAS?

You're right. I should correct my first post - actually 3D modelled pit that looks stunning. I know it's personal preference but I just couldn't stand the simple model of the 3D pit and switching to 2D to actually see details. The BMS pit is gorgeous and almost up there with the DCS products.
With the new 3D pit, dynamic shadows, HDR, native wide/multimontior support and upcoming FLARE integration BMS is the one you'd want if you have modern hardware. Couple that with consistent MP stability you've got a winner when compared to AF or FF.

And what's your secret to getting FF to run stable multiplayer for everyone in a four ship flight on a consistent basis? Me and my buddies have been trying for years to get FF rock solid stable as AF, which we flew previously. BMS is just as stable as AF so we've converted to that. If FF is so stable why haven't VFW's gone over and were mainly flying AF for their online games. Alot are now converting to BMS.

You're right again in that there are alot more planes modelled in FF, no doubt, but like I said, FF for singleplayer.

All I know is that neither FF5 or BMS would do anything close to what F4 AF does. Terrible graphics, unflyable plane, etc. Yes, F4 was in CD drive. Yes, I tried to "tune" the stick. Yes, I have a stick, Saitek Cyborg Evo. No errors during installation. Just a total bust when I ran the sims. I was so p.s.ed, I unistalled and deleted the downloads.

Thanks for the replies, Jim

Unflyable plane, serious? Maybe you don't have the realism set to 100%? BMS is designed to have it set to 100%, and if you don't, things will screw up.

BMS has by far the most realistic flight model of all the Falcons. If you can't fly the plane, blame yourself, not BMS. It just means you need a lot more seat time. A lot.

Don't worry though, with practice you can get better. The graphics are also completely better than AF. I'm not sure what you're doing but it sounds like you have a bunch of settings checked wrong. If it doesn't look anything like this, then it is your settings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg2Yc65pQK8&feature=related

Seems to me you answered your question right there.

For the time being BMS 4.32 has been behaving really nice for me. I put some fifty hours in now and it hung only a couple of times, and only in the GUI after I had been task-switching like a maniac. BMS also doesn't like my antivirus software for some reason, sometimes taking a really long time to launch. That's all. Considering Falcon has never been very stable, it's a absolutely freaking wonderful what the BMS devs pulled off here.

Also, you sure you were playing the new BMS 4.32 version and not the very, very old BMS 2 patch from 2003 or something? I don't know how you could describe BMS 4.32 graphics as "terrible" otherwise. It's the only version with a DirectX 9 engine, for chrissakes.

BMS 4.32 anytime!

This comes from a hardcore AF fan.

OF: did never find out how to install and run it.

FF: ran like sh.. on my 64 bit system.

AF: easy to use.

BMS: as easy as AF to run, and looks better. More complicated, but not difficult to learn.

BMS 4.32 is the only Falcon I have been able to play. Tried OF but the graphics were not so good. I heard AF was FUGLY and from the screenshots I'd have to say they were right. I can't believe people even flew that game.

Oh, you would be surprised to see how ugly things I flew in the last 20 years...
(I clearly remember the first one, check the link. It had air refuelling! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJWB6tSgx_E)

I flew AF for years, and I loved it.
Tried FF every time it got updated, but felt unsafe, unfinished, cumbersome, althouhg looked great.
Never tried OF.
I downloaded BMS 4.32, and its perfect from every angle, I just wait to have enough time to dive into it. Wouldn't go back to anything else in the Falcon world.

AF is awesome if you have Ayes cockpit and HiTiles. Looks very good. Just getting started with BMS so no comments yet. Tried FF but always had problems and gave up on it. But in fairness, i did not give FF a real chance. I have limited time for this stuff, and messing with errors and crashes just doesn't work for me.

Thanks for the replies guys! I guess I will give BMS another try.

Regards, Jim

All of these versions of Falcon require some fine-tuning to get running optimally.

As posted by Bib, Freefalcon is not Nvidia friendly (although I play it on an Nvidia laptop with XP), but with ATI you should be good to go. My new rig is Vista with ATI and it runs fine.

Both BMS and Freefalcon are excellent, and since both are free, I encourage you to give both a proper try. BMS looks better, no doubt. I am a developer for FF, and therefore biased, but truthfully I think FF offers much that BMS does not. There is a lot more to these sims than just the modelling of the F-16 and the eye-candy.

I have both versions installed, and fly both. You don't have to choose one over the other. But as always, the version that plays best on your computer is probably the winner.

Your choices really are between F-16 Combat Pilot on an Atari St Emulator and BMS 4.32.

Both are great

I am another long time AF flyer (started in 2005). I'm really into multiplayer flying. I seldom fly single player any longer. I recently switched to Falcon BMS 4.32 (about a couple of weeks after it was released) and am gradually coming up to speed. It's beautiful compared to AF graphics and it runs like a charm on my i7 x64 bit computer under Windows 7. It's also more complicated because the documentation isn't quite as "polished" as AF for user interface. However, it is much more realistic to the real F-16.

Running BMS with a 9400GT here, works fine with HDR switched off. (1024x768)

I loved freefalcon but because of the unresolved instability with Windows 7 x64 and Nvidia drivers,I migrated to BMS.I am really loving the superior BMS flight model and those superb virtual cockpits.I haven't had any CTD's in BMS like I get daily from running Freefalcon.

You can't believe they ever flew Allied Forces?

Here's a screenie of Falcon 1.0:




How about F-15 Strike Eagle?

That little triangular thing in the middle of the hud was the enemy plane.

Falcon AF always looked good on my system.

Nice 2D shot there. Now imagine that but in the 3D pit and that's the BMS pit. Then we can get started on the avionics...

But is BMS as stable as AF? Not starting an argument. Really just curious. AF was always very stable for me, especially in MP. How far has BMS come in this regard?

IMO, it's as stable as AF. Alot of VFWs think so too as there are some that are now transitioning from AF to BMS as their main MP vehicle. You don't see that with FF.

OK, I'm ready to drink the BMS koolaid.

Just checking to make sure I can still have AF in the HD without any problems.
Slow learner here and I'd like backup for a while.

You can run AF and BMS on the same PC - they are totally separate sims.


BMS needs the original Falcon 4.0 disk for install (no need to actually install it though)

I have been playing various versions of F4 on and off since it was released, although I have been using AF exclusively since 2005. You can't beat F4AF for rock solid stability in the campaigns, especially compared to earlier versions.

But I digress. I installed BMS 4.32 to see what the fuss is about. First of all, congratulations to the team, BMS 4.32 looks very professional, installs easily and the configuration options are easy to figure out. I was up and flying in a few minutes. It is nice to see the F4 adventure is still going strong 12 years after it was released.....plus you can't beat the price.

However, I have a few questions. I saw all the enclosed documentation, but have not had a chance to plow through it.

1. graphics: it does not look that different from AF and the water and 3d pit does not look like the screenshots on the BMS site. Are there certain config options that have to be turned on to achieve that look? The HDR box is checked in the config options, but I left HDR bloom at the default 7 position in the in game menu.

2. radio frequency: I see I now have to tune in to a particular UHF radio frequency to contact the Tower. Question is, how do I find said frequency? is it available in game or do is there a list we can print up?

I have seen many people saying the graphics are not like in the pictures, but since noone has ever posted a pic of their own for comparison, I never understood if something was wrong with their settings or.. with their eyes :p anyway, there are quite a few options in the config editor you need to turn on, most important are the ones under shader rendering. A screenshot from the game running on your PC and of your settings would be useful.

Now that I think about it... many here have reported that the cockpit doesn't look like in the pics, doesn't look that good and generally the graphics are not that improved from AF. I'm starting to think there is an alternate hacked BMS version with crappy graphics floating around, lol.



Red Dog's site has everything you need: http://users.skynet.be/bs999158/F4download_navigation.htm

So... does it not look like this, or do you not think this is much different from AF? I have HDR off btw.

That is exactly what I am seeing, but the water looks flat. In the screenshots I have seen, you could see dynamic light reflections off the water.



Since my post, I realized you could zoom in and move around the cockpit. I will have to play around with that.

Again, not trying to criticize, I just want to make sure I have the game setup properly to maximise the graphics.

Reflections are there, you can see them in my pics. Maybe I don't exactly understand what you mean? If you could link the screenshots you are talking about it could be made more clear perhaps. It depends on the viewing angle and distance probably, also objects are reflected as well though there is nothing to reflect in my pic (like clouds etc).

The effect is more pronounced here, do you mean something like this?






That's my goal too, I just read what I wrote again, I hope I didn't sound sarcastic at some point

yes, exactly, guess I have to spend more time with it.

After spending some time now with BMS 4.32, I have to say I am very impressed. The graphics: dynamic water reflections, clouds, Hi-res 3d cockpit, dynamic lighting/shadows are impressive and comparable to more recent sims like RoF or SF2. The graphics remind a lot of Flanker/Lomac. I have been doing many instrument landings in inclement weather just to admire the new fog, rain and runway lighting effects.

I also love the other innovations: being able to use TIR in 6DOF in the pit, the "sticky" area around the button/switches (very handy), the Data Transfer Cartridge to set everything up to your liking, working "TWS RAID" mode with the AIM-120 to name a few.

Of course, this being F4, I have had to go back to school, re-reading my F4 manual, looking up the new BMS procedures and trying to implement them with the training missions, all of which I see have been remade.

I was recently caught in a close in dogfight with a MIG-29 feeling part dread since the AI is a killer, part stupidity for letting him get so close. We were both flying loops close to the ground. I was frantically trying to keep my eyes on him and maintain SA so I would not plow into the ground. I kept being distracted by the water reflections, the way shadows played in the 3d cockpit, how good the MIG model looked everytime he passed by....man, it has been a long time since I was so enthusiastic about getting back into F4.

congrats to the whole BMS team.

Been playing AF for long, and still happy with it. Just recently heard about these FF5 and DBS, though. I'm afraid both are no go for me. I have all receipe for disaster for FF5 (Win7 64 and GeForce 210 vga). And I don't have original F4 to required to install BMS. Too bad, since I heard FF5 boasts carrier ops as one of its features.. Probably anyone knows about any carrier ops mod for AF? Thanks.

I just got my copy of Falcon 4.0 in the mail! Will be switching over from AF soon.

I'm a long time AF flyer as well, in fact I'm still finishing my current campaign before completing the switch to BMS. I've not heard of working carrier ops in AF I'm afraid, but they work great in BMS.

I think you'll want to get a copy of the original F4 for BMS - look what's being worked on for BMS:






http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?7248-BMS-F18-A-and-C-upgrade-community-involvement

I see.. Getting F4 is the only way, then. Gotta wait until 2012, though. My gaming budget is already expended for Arma2 CO, Skyrim and Deus Ex, LOL. But I'll get it for sure. Those screenies are impossible for mere mortals to resist!
Thanks.

I don't see how you guys can play so many different games. I guess it depends on if your single or not.

You kinda hurt me there, LOL. But maybe it's true. Being a man and not married sure feels like I have so much free times for my hobby.

Didn't mean to magic, just wondering. I know some wives and girlfriends are nice. I just can't play to many games cause it's too many buttons and commands to try to remember.

Is there manual for the multiple target engagement for BMS?
If not, would you kindly teach us about it?

well I'm no expert, still getting up to speed on BMS. You can find some details at pp. 82 and following of the BMS manual and there are threads at the BMS forum like this one:

http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?7137-TTS-Trouble&highlight=amraam

Basically, it works in a similar fashion to TWS RAID mode in Jane's F/A-18. It appears to work in both RWS and TWS.

The procedure I use is the following:

1. slew radar cursor over 1st target and "designate" (HOTAS TMS up);
2. repeat for 2nd target;
3. you can then "step" from one target to the other (HOTAS TMS right). When you are in TWS, you will notice a white cross next to the currently designated target;
4. when in range, fire AIM-120 at first target, "step" to 2nd target and fire another AIM-120.

Your radar should track both targets and update the missiles appropriately. You can practice using the BMS AIM-120 training mission.

Thanks for the tutorial, it really helped me.