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#3410098 - 10/14/11 12:53 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: citizen guod]  
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Reutlingen, Baden-Wrttemberg,...
A good review and a fair one. I mean BMS is not perfect and everything we ant (F-14 Clickable pit please! :D) but its very good and stable. It works right out of the box and I havent had any CTD in over a month of playing it. I was always staying out of using FreeFalcon or OpenFalcon for stability issues. But this one is great, it just works right out of the box, or rather the download! thumbsup

I agree with beach there are still things to be done, like better 3d Models for the other planes and the ground targets, or especially the custom pits for other planes, like the F-14 the F/A-18 and the older ones.

Still much better than the spayed Aerosoft FSX F-16, eh?

Recluse did you activate the TrackIR Vector Control in the Setup menu, its under controllers->advaced->Views

I have played it in the Multiplayer campaign thrice so far (damn RL! biggrin ) and it was absolutely stable, no crashes glitches or anny warping, I dont know about the ping, I didnt even look for it, it was just that smooth. The only problem is when somebody does connect with an empty setting in the connection bandwith, as we didnt see the airbase, coming back, which caused me to land with 400 pounds of fuel after the Airbase reappeared. The Multiplayer campaign is just a blast! I dont think I can go back to FC2 or DCS style mp missions after that.

Last edited by Polarwolf; 10/14/11 12:53 PM. Reason: clearing up a grammatical error

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#3410110 - 10/14/11 01:18 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Originally Posted By: BeachAV8R
I doubt you had a flawed installation. The install is point and click and doesn't overwrite anything else - so it is what it is. Whether we are talking about EECH, Falcon 4, or pretty much any other sim the AI is always going to display questionable behavior. I have yet to find a sim that doesn't do odd things with AI aircraft.


Maybe I did not make clear what I mean. What I mean is that this is the worst flight models and AI that I have seen in any Falcon 4.0 incarnation, and believe me, I had a taste of all F4 stuff that came out until final patch 13 (? was it?) for Allied Force. What I mean is that I had an appearant massive detoriation in AI and flight models. You are right, all and every AI in any game has this issue, that problem, and then some. But I did not mean these principle problems.

At helosim.com/subsim.com we had a thread about that, there I was told by somebody that these problems I mentioned indeed are reported for quick missions/dogfight, but not in campaign, and I also had read it in random places on the web that there are issues in dogfight, so there IS a problem, obviously, at least in certain play modes. But I already admitted that I did not do very long tests, but I had two launchs in campaign, too, and there saw the same problems, though.

Anyhow, i just wanted to encourage to direct some work and effort for the next parts of the review being directed at examining AI and flight models. I hope for some feedback on expewriences on these things. I currently have no Falcon installed, no matter which version, I deleted BMS again. Part 1 of the review tells me that I have missed many features of the new BMS version, that is absolutely possible since I tried it only very shortly, for curiosity, maybe 5 launches I had. Okay. But these additional features are secondary only to me as long as I do not get a much greener light for AI and FM.

No dispute intended. wink

Last edited by Skybird; 10/14/11 01:19 PM.
#3410117 - 10/14/11 01:43 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: citizen guod]  
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Patrocles Offline
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Originally Posted By: guod
Chris "BeachAV8R" Frishmuth reviews Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0

Included in the review is a 17 minute HD video showing the many new features of BMS 4.32

http://www.simhq.com/_air14/air_507a.html


wow! Thanks for your time on working on the excellent review!!

I tried installing FF or BMS a few years ago and never got it to work properly. If this new version of BMS is as easy to install and run as you suggest I will give it another try!
smile


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#3410121 - 10/14/11 02:04 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: Skybird]  
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Nice review Beach - The F-16 FM is the best in any F4 version - and probably the best in any sim 've flown by miles.

DCS A-10 is currently shelfware with everything else tuner

Yes the only negative side is that the enemy AI is a lot easier to beat than in Allied Force - I won 6-0 against an Ace SU-27 armed with R-73s in DF mode - when you consider - I ran out of AIM-9X rounds after the second kill - for some reason they kept firing and missing - or just let me fly up behind them - in AF going in against an R-73 toting Su with guns was almost suicide.


'Crashing and Burning since 1987'
#3410123 - 10/14/11 02:06 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: Polarwolf]  
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Good to hear the MP is stable. I would have loved to have tried it out, but as I've mentioned to my friends - I can only accomplish things in 10 minute blocks these days. Have you ever tried to gently slew the TGP onto a target while keeping an eye on the RWR all while having an 18 month old hanging from your HOTAS arm?? LOL... Talk about distractions...

Originally Posted By: Polarwolf
I mean BMS is not perfect and everything we ant (F-14 Clickable pit please!

I'll be the voice of dissent on that one. I'd actually like to see Falcon remain a pure F-16 sim. While I appreciate that everyone wants to fly the planes that are close to their heart, I would rather see the time and effort go into refining the other 3D models, working on the AI, and tweaking the campaign. Also, I'd love to see an Operation Desert Storm theater integrated into this install somehow.

Quote:
Still much better than the spayed Aerosoft FSX F-16, eh?

No kidding..! Even if you are into FSX for the pure civilian/flight side of it..I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to give BMS 4.32 a shot. The flight model is so marvelous..!

Quote:
Recluse did you activate the TrackIR Vector Control in the Setup menu, its under controllers->advaced->Views

Good point. That is how you can get the full 6DoF and that is what really makes that UFC pop out at you. I also tend to use a slightly narrower FOV (one click forward with my mouse wheel)..

Quote:
I have played it in the Multiplayer campaign thrice so far (damn RL! biggrin ) and it was absolutely stable, no crashes glitches or anny warping, I dont know about the ping, I didnt even look for it, it was just that smooth.

That is encouraging to hear. I hope to get some MP time in soon..

Skybird - I copy all that you've said and agree with much of it. Despite the problems I can look past some of the quirky AI stuff although it would be fantastic if BMS could work on those things. I spent a fair amount of time in the "Action View" which moves around the campaign battlefield looking at all the various entities, and noticed some problems with helos being under the terrain and some odd bombing profiles and stuff. All of that needs to be addressed obviously..but the work that went into getting the graphics up to speed, the flight model, and the 3D cockpit are big steps in the right direction. Hopefully with some of that heavy lifting out of the way BMS can delve into those other issues. (?) Thanks for your thoughts and inputs...

Regards,
BeachAV8R



#3410132 - 10/14/11 02:20 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Originally Posted By: BeachAV8R


Originally Posted By: Polarwolf
Recluse did you activate the TrackIR Vector Control in the Setup menu, its under controllers->advaced->Views

Good point. That is how you can get the full 6DoF and that is what really makes that UFC pop out at you. I also tend to use a slightly narrower FOV (one click forward with my mouse wheel)..




Hmmm no I didnt because I didn't enable TRACKIR from the get go so I ignored those settings. Maybe I will try it. Thanks for the tip!

Last edited by Recluse; 10/14/11 02:20 PM.

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#3410146 - 10/14/11 03:12 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: Skybird]  
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Originally Posted By: Skybird

What I mean is that I had an appearant massive detoriation in AI and flight models. You are right, all and every AI in any game has this issue, that problem, and then some. But I did not mean these principle problems.

At helosim.com/subsim.com we had a thread about that, there I was told by somebody that these problems I mentioned indeed are reported for quick missions/dogfight, but not in campaign, and I also had read it in random places on the web that there are issues in dogfight, so there IS a problem, obviously, at least in certain play modes.


Hmm. So you and a guy in another squadron agree to a dogfight. One of you has to fly a Tanker with guns strapped on the wings and the other gets to fly a F-16. For laughs, each of you make a contract with God that states--If you die, you get to respawn. That takes the edge off.

What are you going to exect your buddy in the Tanker to do? Fly straight and level?

You wanted a DOGfight... you got one!

I fail to see the problem here. In Dogfight mode, I expect my opponent to try and... Dogfight me.

I'm sure BMS appreciates the criticism but I think you're being too critical here. BMS has done substantial things to improve Falcon 4.0 and for a while, Dogfight was broken in other iterations. I have yet to see one single absurd behavior by AI in campaign.

#3410173 - 10/14/11 04:23 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Skybird Offline
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You really try hard to misunderstand what I said and give it a twist, hm? And just for the record of yours, I did not even mention MP or any buddy of mine - only the AI, and FMs. Will you please read my first and second post again before distorting my words any further. That would be appreciated, really.

#3410176 - 10/14/11 04:25 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: citizen guod]  
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Skybird Offline
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BTW, I forgot to insert the link to the thread I was refering to:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=187523

#3410233 - 10/14/11 05:45 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: citizen guod]  
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An absolutely superb review...talk about thorough. thumbsup Great job Beach! As I was reading this and watching the video, just spellbound...I was thinking what a great time to be a flight simmer. I mean you got this remake of a classic, the DCS series, Rise of Flight,the coming Combat Helo. I'm beside myself with fun. yep

#3410246 - 10/14/11 05:57 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: citizen guod]  
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One thing I love about this version is the sound.

Unless you had a hardware capable EAX or hardware direct 3d sound card,the sound would come out horrible.

This version doesn't seem to have those problems.

The new hud is absolutely a godsend.

I used to get sore eyes trying to read the fonts in the old Falcons and the green would disappear under the sun and even changing colours would bring back the eye strain after a while.

Not with this baby.

Amazing what Benchmark Sims have done to this old game which was released in 1998!!!!

LOL.

I still have the old ring binder.


I bought it a few years before I even owned a PC.

It just was something way beyond any other simulator software and still is.

I missed the boat on Falcon 3 but did play the earlier Falcons on my Amiga hehe.


Last edited by Darren; 10/14/11 06:11 PM.
#3410265 - 10/14/11 06:29 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: citizen guod]  
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Well, after a considerable span of time it looks like F4 will go back on my PC for another round of flying!



The Jedi Master


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#3410266 - 10/14/11 06:29 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: citizen guod]  
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BeachAV8R Offline
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In all honesty, the review would have been more thorough (poor Doug would have spent even more time in formatting) if I had more time. A few years ago and this would have been a dozen page review. I love my little boy to death..but he does put a crimp on concentration and stream of thought. biggrin Used to be I could sit at my computer for 8 hours at a stretch..but until Kai gets a bit older (and can fly on my not yet built home LAN) I have to take my time in bits and pieces.

So whatever is missing from the review are probably legit gripes and I take responsibility for them. It is worth noting that all of the stuff shown in the video aren't necessarily new things... Some of those things have been in there since OpenFalcon and previous BMS versions, but a lot of people might have missed some of the intermediate steps between Falcon, Falcon Allied Force, and where we are now...so I figured it would be a good idea to highlight some of those features too.

I hope that BMS continues to shape Falcon going forward.

BeachAV8R



#3410339 - 10/14/11 08:04 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: citizen guod]  
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Great review! The video really was the icing on the cake. I'm gonna fire that thing up later on and fly some missions with the sniper pod.

-C-


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#3410376 - 10/14/11 09:01 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Polarwolf Offline
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Reutlingen, Baden-Wrttemberg,...
Originally Posted By: BeachAV8R
Good to hear the MP is stable. I would have loved to have tried it out, but as I've mentioned to my friends - I can only accomplish things in 10 minute blocks these days. Have you ever tried to gently slew the TGP onto a target while keeping an eye on the RWR all while having an 18 month old hanging from your HOTAS arm?? LOL... Talk about distractions...


Errm...........No! biggrin I know what youre talking about though, my sister vistited in August, with my then four months old niece, and lord did she keep us busy, luckily we got like 15 minute shifts. My brother-in-law was out of country on buiness, so I had to play surrogate father for that time! biggrin Flight time? Which flight time! biggrin I think Ill wait some more years! wink Still.........I wouldnt have done it any other way, it was great when they were there.

Originally Posted By: Polarwolf
I mean BMS is not perfect and everything we ant (F-14 Clickable pit please!

Originally Posted By: BeachAV8R
I'll be the voice of dissent on that one. I'd actually like to see Falcon remain a pure F-16 sim. While I appreciate that everyone wants to fly the planes that are close to their heart, I would rather see the time and effort go into refining the other 3D models, working on the AI, and tweaking the campaign. Also, I'd love to see an Operation Desert Storm theater integrated into this install somehow.


A Valid point, And I think things like an F-14 pit should only be integrated after all what youve mentioned is put in, I heard a discussion about an F-16D two seater though and that would be awesome, if they could put it in, in the near future (next two years! biggrin ) It would make training new guys much easier.

Originally Posted By: BeachAV8R

Quote:
Still much better than the spayed Aerosoft FSX F-16, eh?

No kidding..! Even if you are into FSX for the pure civilian/flight side of it..I don't know why anyone wouldn't want to give BMS 4.32 a shot. The flight model is so marvelous..!

The strange thing is everybody was saying that landing was a whole different ballgame and I thought, man is the Viper even harder to land than before? And I flew my first missions and I actually could land it much better than in AF, the handling was more like I was used to from the Flanker. Felt more right, and the whole behaviour of the airplane feels more right. It was also fun to fly a dogfight agains the Mig-29 with a decent chance, that HMCS sure is helping, even without missile aiming. Damn I love the Flanker, but flying without those atmospheric Campaign missions................... sicko


Originally Posted By: BeachAV8R


Skybird - I copy all that you've said and agree with much of it. Despite the problems I can look past some of the quirky AI stuff although it would be fantastic if BMS could work on those things. I spent a fair amount of time in the "Action View" which moves around the campaign battlefield looking at all the various entities, and noticed some problems with helos being under the terrain and some odd bombing profiles and stuff. All of that needs to be addressed obviously..but the work that went into getting the graphics up to speed, the flight model, and the 3D cockpit are big steps in the right direction. Hopefully with some of that heavy lifting out of the way BMS can delve into those other issues. (?) Thanks for your thoughts and inputs...

Regards,
BeachAV8R




I second that, and if you look at Cliffs of Dover for example, the AI is dogfighting there also, with bombers, and other stuff like the Oberleutnant und Fritz found out! biggrin A good friend said:"For a game that is thirteen years old, that looks amazing!" and he didnt mean just the graphics!

@Skybird Strangely I havent seen much of that strange AI Bevhaviour especially in the Training, but I know, the Candid is heavy, but if somebody fired a missile at you, wouldnt you break some flight rules to evade it?

Also the AI is using the old Flight models, There is an article on bms.org about it, if you use the new AFMs on them you would have to essentially rewrite the whole AI code, or atleast very large portions of it. BMS Flightmodel Developers Notes Part 2


What Comes before a Good simulator landing? The Bad ones!^^
If you keep your humor, you will make it through the darkest of valleys.
#3410477 - 10/15/11 12:47 AM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: Skybird]  
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Originally Posted By: Skybird
You really try hard to misunderstand what I said and give it a twist, hm? And just for the record of yours, I did not even mention MP or any buddy of mine - only the AI, and FMs. Will you please read my first and second post again before distorting my words any further. That would be appreciated, really.


No, no I did not misunderstand you. Read deeper into my post Danielson. With proper time and attention, you shall see the true meaning of what I wrote. It directly pertained to what you said and the AI. Read. Think. wink

Last edited by Mr_Blastman; 10/15/11 12:50 AM.
#3410633 - 10/15/11 08:43 AM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Originally Posted By: BeachAV8R
In all honesty, the review would have been more thorough (poor Doug would have spent even more time in formatting) if I had more time. A few years ago and this would have been a dozen page review. I love my little boy to death..but he does put a crimp on concentration and stream of thought. biggrin Used to be I could sit at my computer for 8 hours at a stretch..but until Kai gets a bit older (and can fly on my not yet built home LAN) I have to take my time in bits and pieces.


Beach, thanks for taking the time and energy to put this review together. As the father of a six month old, I know exactly what you mean!

#3410695 - 10/15/11 01:00 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: citizen guod]  
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Here's a handy Allied Force to BMS conversion guide I found posted over at the BMS site.

http://www.mediafire.com/?7v1ja0h4ag28jro


"Learning to fly the Falcon is just your ticket to the dance" - Pete 'Boomer' Bonanni.
#3410722 - 10/15/11 01:50 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: Spliff]  
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Lifer
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Originally Posted By: Spliff
Beach, thanks for taking the time and energy to put this review together. As the father of a six month old, I know exactly what you mean!


thumbsup I'm glad I have a kid now so I can empathize with all the other parents out there. I need 28 hours in each day to get everything done that I want... And I have NO idea how single Moms and Dads do it (NONE!)...



#3411002 - 10/15/11 10:17 PM Re: Review: Benchmark Sims 4.32 for Falcon 4.0 [Re: citizen guod]  
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Pinetree Offline
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Great review, just wish I had time to play it.
Quote:
I'm glad I have a kid now so I can empathize with all the other parents out there. I need 28 hours in each day to get everything done that I want... And I have NO idea how single Moms and Dads do it (NONE!)...

Wait 'til you have two (both under 2). One's easy. biggrin

(Got another one coming in March, Damn..)

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