The demo for FM4 comes out tomorrow, Monday... featuring a Alp track and a number of cars... here are 4 videos for those that can't or don't want to get the demo...since game release is 2 weeks away.

http://www.virtualr.net/forza-motorsport-4-demo-videos/

Cool AI behaviour looks good and GFX look nice even when driving and replays... Looking forward to the demo tomorrow to test whether the physics and wheel control got the needed advertised improvement.

Either way I am really looking forward to the release.

A good video of the demo with Fanatec GT2 wheel.



Graphics looking pretty good even when driving, though it looks like he needs to tweak the wheel's steering sensitivity, best to leave it off in FM3, maybe FM4 is the same.

Just a couple of more hours until the demo should be showing up in the dashboard.

OK, tried the demo... my opinion OF THIS DEMO might piss off some of you fanboys, lol... so click the back button ASAP...

After trying all three cars on the track, with no aids, sim rules...etc etc...

It is a good, maybe great game(demo), nice looking, nice sounds, nice layout... clean and refined... the negative... (and understand that I have been playing iRacing for over a year now... the greatest motor-sport simulation ever IMO, so I can't help to compare all driving games to it...)

1. Track feel is light...again, not as light as FM3... but way to smooth on the blacktop.

2. AI is stupid... Kludger, what were you smoking when you posted the AI was "cool". lol... they brake on stait-aways for no reason, they over brake in turns, they randomally crash out in areas unusual for a roll over, and if you crash, they continue to drive through you... I spun out in 2nd place, was trying to get back facing the right way... 6 cars in a row would T-bone me, spinning me again... and it wasn't in a blind spot, they could of evaded or even slowed.

3. The Fanatec wheel did seem spot on and very good with the FF, sen (which I have off like in FM3 and it appears FM4 uses the default car sen if you have it off.

That said, still looking forward to the game...it is 100x better then FM3, but still some of the same issues I #%&*$# about back then are here again... in the demo. (Maybe I need to stop iRacing, lol.)

Heheh in that video you posted a link to the AI seemed to avoid the parked car in the line much better than GT5, but I will take your word for it from actual experience hehe.

Thanks for posting your quick impressions I look forward to trying it later today too.

P.S. I totally agree iRacing is an addictive drug hehe it ruined me for all other sims for the first year, but eventually I came back to other sims and even though the physics/FF/track modeling never compares to it, most other games have stuff iRacing doesn't and I grew to appreciate those and not focus on the physics so much, but then again I am an admitted optimist and not a good game reviewer because of it :-)

It looks like the demo might support the rivals offline friends leaderboard thing, if so I will test that out too.

Forza 4 looks like a good option for people like me who'd just prefer to startup and race without too many worries. I'm surprised we haven't seen any racing games follow iRacing's lead with certain design points like safety ratings etc.

Downloading the demo now

oh another big beef of mine... no control of the car till the green flag drops... IE: if you use a manual transmition... at the start of the race you'll see it in first gear reeving up on it's own. then the green flag drops and your sitting their in neutral... you have to time it just right to get in gear fast but most likely you'll be delayed on the start by a split second or 2.

It does indeed! Shows you the supports used too.

yep... just tried to take on Raw's time... but a little to much play for a fast car in the wheel...so checking settings.

That's probably my son's time. LOL He runs full assists the little cheater!

just wait till i get off work in 8 hours.

I took down Magnum's time in the Pagani, but I cheated and had TC and ABS on (was using the controller not wheel).

AI hard is the new medium/easy....
Havent try proffessional yet.
Muscle cars got big understeer(wich is ok I think for that kind of cars)

I had hope that they would get rid of the Forza3 prestart auto-rev, but Forza4's is the worse. I think we dont even have a full second for pre-reving.....
If at least it could be an option!

It seems to be once again dumbed down, Will wait before buying the final product I think...

Ok just got a chance to try it during lunch, and I really like like it!

Quick impressions:

1. It took me a minute to adjust my graphics expectations from PC to console, no AA, but the FPS is really good 60 FPS with no tearing

2. Hard settings with no aids + simulation steering + manual + clutch feels 10 times better than FM3, also feels better than GT5 to me so far...

3. The sound of engines is 10 times better than GT5

4. The track looks great, new lighting engine looks great (once you get used to the no AA) can't wait to see what Norsdchleife is like with the new lighting engine.

5. AI is not bad, much less robotic than GT5 (who take their preferred line even if you are currently occupying it)

6. I really like the Rivals mode and the the Track day mode through the slower moving track.

7. I love how the new physics feel with the Fanatec GT2 + clutch + h-shifter, heel-toe on the BMW and WRX feels right, then clutch plus paddle on the Ferrari and Zonda also feel good.
Using the following GT2 setting in case it helps:
Sen: Off
FF: 40
Sho: 90
Dri:003
Abs: 75
Lin: 000
Dea: 000
Spr: -3
Dpr: -3

I beat a couple of you Rivals times so far, looking forward to playing with this demo this week, adding a couple of you guys that I don't have on my friends list, and can't wait for the final release next week with the SimHQ car club.

Note: I am not an official reviewer, and I am a platform agnostic sim racing and car nut, so not the best person for critical review, but I am loving FM4 so far, much better than FM3 on physics and the immersion is better than GT5 so far (and I like GT5), will wait to see what the full game has to offer.

Kludger...

why so low on FF... 40? I do 80% but it's all personal feel.

and just curious why 002 drift and -3 spring... since that supposedly does nothing for the Xbox 360 mode... not questioning you, just trying to steal some education from you.

I do think it's a great demo, and agree with you on all points, minus the AI... but I guess 2 laps with the AI are kinda unfair.

Oh I will for sure record samples to support my argument for the full release.

You're right I do low FF because I really like to feel the loss of traction of the wheels and low FF seems to allow me to feel it more, but that is definitely a personal pref.

Drift: 003 works on all 3 platforms and it is the amount that the motor helps the wheel return to center instead of letting you do all the turning, it makes the wheel and direction changes quicker. I found Drift:002 or 003 really helps in my driving style of trailbraking and cornering on the edge of traction since I can correct spins quicker.

You're right Spring -3 and Damper -3 are only supported on PS3 but I put them in all my profiles since I don't want to risk MS or PC supporting it at some point and being affected by canned spring or damper effects :-)


Also I will give you the benefit of the doubt on AI, since I spent tons of hours driving against GT5's oblivious AI which I had to treat like iRacing human drivers - avoid contact with them and try to guess what line they will take and make sure my car is not in that position otherwise a crash will occur.

FM4 AI so far at least seem to be aware of me in corners where we are going through side by side and they don't seem to close the door like GT5 AI do and they don't seem to back off completely and give me the corner like some other games AI do to make it easy (F1-2010).

Looking forward to some multiplayer with you guys, that should be a total blast.

The only people who've been able to craft a single-player environment that is fun, challenging, and behaves almost better than what you see on public online matches are the guys at Simbin.

I normally belong much higher on the forum list in air combat sims. This would be my first racing sim since GT2. The demo blew me away. I wish it incorperated the kinect capabilities because I was really curious as to how the head tracking worked. But works or not I am getting F4!

Magnum,

Re:

1. Ouch, the physics were supposed to be a selling point. I doubt we'll see much improvement at launch. Still, F4 brings enough else to the table to warrant it's place

2. AI might get a lot better a few races in when in the actual title. Apparently they made it VERY adaptive. Braking in a straight is odd, but over breaking in a turn was a major tweak. I'd say that's realistic, as far as AI goes.

I think the graphics are fantastc and really cant wait to see the real world tracks. The sounds which i always felt lacking in fm3, and thought were better in fm2, are much improved in fm4.

It would seem, from the demo, that they havent improved the interface much. There are multiple ways to get to difficulty settings and lots of dead ends when you think a selection is going somewhere e.g. I couldnt find the gamepad configuration but it felt like it should be down one of the routes i took. Speaking of menus this brings me to the music, i CAN NOT wait to have that drivel turned off.

I love the rivals mode and think its an excellent feature which many improvised by having to go through leader boards, finding a friends time and then racing the ghost or the time.

The handling feels very slippy to me using the controller and the track feels like its made of glass and little weight to the cars. Id hoped that this would have been improved from fm3, may be it has and its just this track.

+1
do we know if it's because it's the Alp track, or all track should feel the same ?!

nice! you can find many vids of the game from at that MotoGamesTV link in the VirtualR article!
http://www.youtube.com/user/MotoGamesTV

Well I am quite impressed with the demo, really looking forward to this next week.



The options and settings are stripped from the demo.

To get rid of the music, play a custom soundtrack (rip a song from cd to your 360 or connect to a pc) and pause it.

ive read that ambient temp is taken into account and that if you do a few circuits of alpine in rivals tire temps increase a therefore grip, changing the handling. ill check it out tonight. itll be interesting if true , and if it will have that much of an effect.

Thanks 360maniac ill try that with the music.

Forza has always (I think anyway, can't remember for Forza1 for sure) modeled tire temps.

Your first lap+ is going to be a bit lacking in grip because of it. This is one reason I never like the short sprint races since it usually takes a couple laps just to get the tires up to normal racing temp and associated grip.

Yeah I know that it has always modelled tire temps but I don't think that I've never noticed it having that much of an effect in Forza. The reason I mention it is that there has been rumours that the effect of higher temps has been modelled far more aggressively. Therefore it would translate to there being a noticeable increase in feel of grip within the first few laps, and that this would be particularly effective on a track based in the alps where the track would be cold and slippy if the ambient temperature is truly modelled.

I have been testing it tonight and while the grip does increase, slightly more noticeably in feel then previous Forzas, the feel of the track is still on the slippy side and very noticeable on the edge of grip. The increase in grip is translated in higher g load being obtained in a turn than on the first lap, I know that Forza has always felt like this, I was just hoping that it would be better in feel.

But as I said, maybe it's just the track.

The main point I'm getting at is it's the feel that i'm talking about, not the numbers, because when you are racing you're not looking at the numbers you are going by the feel. And yes I know I'm using a gamepad on the 360 but other racers on the 360 have implied a much greater sense of feel and grip.

I see where you're coming from, but I have a different experience racing with the wheel. I have to really watch myself until the tires get up to temp, on tracks that I know well. This shows most on an enduro race, after a pit stop. Coming out with fresh and cold tires, the change in grip is considerable. I don't think I'd want it to be any more, it's pretty strong as is, IMO.

From the little I've read, the ambient temp is the temp of the tires at start. So, a colder track means a bit longer to get up to temp. It would be neat if they calculated track temp into the overall tire model. I haven't heard anything about that, but I've not been reading much either.

All 4 Forza Titles has Tire Temperature Modeling, however the Engine's in FM1, 2 and 3 were using Converted Data and not raw data. meaning the data was taken from charts and books, and converted to the Games Tire Engine, from what i was told it lost alot in translation in terms of performance curve detail.

Forza 1 Had Toyo Tire Data
Forza 2 Had Goodyear Tire Data
Forza 3 had a bunch of mixed data converted to the same engine. (which explains a lot tire and handling wise).

Forza 4 has a new engine that takes the RAW untouched data from Pirelli, so nothing is lost in translation, the confidential test data for each tire is loaded into the games engine.


BTW, The Bernese Alps Track will be the Slipperiest track because this is the first time there has been a track with the Ambient Temp Below Freezing (Bernese Alps is the Coldest Track by at least 30 Degrees Fahrenheit)

ok.. another nights play and i gotta say, i flippin' LOVE this game.. yeah, it's not iRacing but man it's great fun. I've just been ripping around the Alps in the Suburu and the Cougar (i think) using my GT2 and the H shifter.. just awesome.. This has gone from definately to not sure to maybe and right back up to definately.. I love it.

There is a lot more feel from the road using the old muscle car than the Zonda or Ferrari.. i guess with the advances in tech that would be about right..

Yeah agreed I am loving it and just can't wait to have access to the full car suite... looking forward to the RUFs, FordGT, ZR1 etc.

And just like FM3 since I don't use any traction aids, so I also tend to prefer driving the slower WRX/M5/Cougar than I do the fast 458 or Zonda, though I admit that engine sound on that Zonda is so satisfying when you are cranking it through the gears.

I'll still play iRacing and my other sims for other purposes, but I can tell I am going to be playing FM4 for quite a long time to fill my needs of picking out some rare/favorite car from the garage and taking it for a spin on the track or against the AI or multiplayer.

Damn Skatezilla your Zonda lap was hard to beat as you get a serious head of steam out of that first hard right corner and over the downhill crests where I have a hard time getting the power down out of that turn, but finally I managed to eek out a few tenths each corner and eventually make up enough time to beat you, but I bet my lap won't hold for long. Myrig had some decent times too.

I'm really enjoying the Rivals mode can't wait until I can use it on some real world tracks I know.