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#3393516 - 09/19/11 03:32 PM Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO
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Interesting interview with comments from John Venema CEO/founder of ORBX:
http://airdailyx.blogspot.com/2011/09/exclusive-for-airdailyx-interview-of.html

Some interesting tidbits:

Airdailyx : With the slow agony of FS9/2004 and all the uncertainties around FLIGHT, do you think that FSX will now live - at last - its great apogee ?

John Venema : Flight is not what people are expecting, it won't compete with FSX at all, it's a completely different sim category. FSX is the serious sim platform for the hardcore and will be for at least 5-10 years, and certainly hardware is now capable of overcoming most of the shortfalls of the code. We are also very excited about Lockheed Martin's PREPAR3D, which is built on FSX and has a bunch of ex-ACES guys fixing all the major bugs and making it work with today's CPU/GPU hardware. We are waiting on some new pricing models to emerge and then it becomes a serious alternative platform for Orbx and its customers.


Sounds like Flight might be simlite after all, and I am definitely more interested to hear about PREPAR3D especially if they have some of the ACES studio folks working there.
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#3393758 - 09/19/11 11:13 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
Remon Offline
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Registered: 10/09/09
Posts: 343
Clarification from the Orbx forum

Quote:
From day one since Flight was announced I have committed Orbx as being an excited supporter of Microsoft and of the new platform and that we would be creating content for it. That position is unchanged, but it has been quite a long time since their announcement, and the industry is moving on.

That's why we are working with Lockheed Martin who have an SDK and a platform we can write to. You need to understand that developers don't plan their business a week in advance, and don't use vapor to create content. We need debugged SDKs and a known target platform before we commit resources to anything. Orbx has a product roadmap which is EIGHTEEN MONTHS ahead of today. We build our business plans around what we know, not speculation. I have shareholders which I am responsible to, and my job is to continue to deliver revenue from sales from real platforms.

Until we see a mature Flight SDK and the tools provided to allow us to port content across to Flight, and fully understand how our content is distributed and sold, I am afraid I can simply assume that Flight is an unknown entity. And what we do know, based on the videos and screenshots shown by MS is that it appears to be only GA aircraft and only in Hawaii. Of course if MS show us more areas of the world or actually provide a features list including geographical areas, airports, aircraft, then we will have a better understanding of the new sim. But right now, based on publicly available information, it looks very much to me like something very different to FSX, thus my comments in the AirdailyX interview.


http://www.orbxsystems.com/forum/topic/37091-john-can-you-confirm/


Edited by Remon (09/19/11 11:14 PM)

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#3393760 - 09/19/11 11:15 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
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#3393793 - 09/20/11 12:39 AM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
Johnost Offline
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- will cost ca $500 !!! -

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#3393794 - 09/20/11 12:40 AM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: Johnost]
SaltyDog Offline
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Registered: 07/29/04
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Originally Posted By: Johnost
- will cost ca $500 !!! -


http://www.prepar3d.com/prepar3d-store/

well, let's wait and see. It may drop if they should decide to turn to a broader audience.

Michael.


Edited by DocW (09/20/11 02:57 AM)
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#3393825 - 09/20/11 02:48 AM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
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I don't think anyone is surprised at all that Flight will be "simlite".
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#3393830 - 09/20/11 02:59 AM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
SaltyDog Offline
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Registered: 07/29/04
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from their store:

Quote:

Purchase
Overview | Release History | Features | Product Information | System Requirements

Overview
Lockheed Martin entered into an intellectual property licensing agreement with Microsoft for the Microsoft® ESP™ platform in late 2009. Lockheed Martin Prepar3D® (pronounced “prepared”), an application based on Microsoft® ESP™, is a visual simulation platform that brings immersive games-based technology to training, experiential learning and decision and performance support for non-government, government and commercial organizations.

Lockheed Martin Prepar3D® immerses the user in a rich and interactive environment that allows users go anywhere in the virtual world, from underwater up to sub orbital space. The Lockheed Martin Prepar3D® team has continued to improve the core ESP™ product while maintaining compatibility with Microsoft Flight Simulator X (FSX) allowing the many thousands of addons to be used within Prepar3D®.


Release History
In November 2010 Lockheed Martin debuted Prepar3D ® 1.0, based on Microsoft® ESP™ technology, as a training application for military, educational, civil and aviation professionals.

In February 2011, the Prepar3D ® team launched additional tools including the Prepar3D Model Converter and Prepar3D Model Placer to help developers by making it easier to create scenery and missions.

In April 2011, version 1.1 was launched. The newest iteration not only brings users increased functionality, but also includes addition of features that support Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) Qualification, new platforms and several modernization upgrades and performance improvements. New features in version 1.1 include enhancements to the end user experience, as well as several additions to and enhancements to SimConnect for developers.

New Capabilities
The Prepar3D® team has worked to extend the core capabilities of Microsoft® ESP™ and continue to add new features and functions that make the new platform a front runner in the modeling and simulation marketplace.

Some new capabilities include:

Expanded Hardware Controls
Upgraded Landclass
Added High-Res Norfolk area
Upgraded User Interface
Added Multichannel support
Added Sensor Capability
Added Global Bathymetry
Added Global Dynamic Water Surface
Enhanced SDK documentation and code samples
Upgraded Panels and Gauges System
Expanded Hardware Controls
32 axes and 128 buttons per joystick
Upgraded to DirectInput8
Fully Supports Fighter Pilots needs
Upgraded Landclass
10 million updated 1km tiles
3 million tiles upgraded from urban/farms to higher density
7 million tiles upgraded from vegetation to more accurately reflect the human footprint in the real world
Added High-Res Norfolk Area
Content based on 12cm real world photography
3 seasons (summer, fall, winter)
day and night
1488 buildings
Upgraded User Interface
Customizable and more rich user experience – based on WPF
Drag n’ Drop
Customized Data – save your favorites
Save and quickly retrieve your aircraft, your missions, your pilot records
Upgraded Learning Center – Create and edit your own articles for reference inside the simulation
Added Multichannel Support
Wider Field of View for your training needs
Configurable up to 100 channels
Freedom to choose different geometric displays
Ready for COTS perspective correction software
Added Sensor Capability
Configure your vehicle with a sensor view
Design sensor views into cockpit gauges
Static Infra Red model
Gray scale and Green scale colorizer views
Added Global Bathymetry
Global Costal Bathymetric DEM
High Resolution Coastal Relief Model for Continental U.S. – http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/coastal/crm.html
Selected deep-ocean sites based on Global Relief Model – http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/global/global.html
Transparent water surface, variable water coloration and underwater visibility
Added Global Dynamic Water Surface
Texture-based dynamic water
Train on or under the water surface
Transparency – see through the water surface
Water fog
Enhanced SDK documentation and code samples
Updated Software Development Kit Documentation
Visual Studio Developers Guide
DirectX Gauge Sample
Upgraded Panels and Gauges System
C++ Gauges now support DirectX
Embed hardware accelerated 3D Graphics into gauge displays
Unprecedented freedom to design complex gauges while maximizing performance
Limited OpenGL support via Conversion Library
Features
Living World
Customizable, data driven graphics and models
Whole Earth WGS-84 Model
Accurate topography with Regionally and Culturally appropriate textures
Modifiable real-time weather system, continuous time of day, seasons and a variety of lighting effects
Realistic Air Traffic Control
Expandable library of vehicle models
Living World
Prepar3D® is a dynamic world that includes:

Airport vehicles
Highway traffic
Boats and ships on lakes and oceans
Air traffic
Livestock
Wild animals
Product Information
Electronic download
45 high-detail airports
39 high-detail cities
Tower Controller
System Requirements
Minimum
Recommended
Operating System
Microsoft Windows XP, Vista, or 7 (32-bit) Microsoft Windows 7 (64-bit)
Computer Processor
2.0 GHz Quad Core 2.0 GHz (Per Core) +
Computer Memory
2 GB 4 GB +
Hard Drive Space
20 GB (2 GB for the SDK)
Graphics Card Video Memory
256 MB 1 GB + (GDDR5 or better)
Graphics Card Other
Vertex/Pixel Shader Model 3.0 or newer
DirectX9 or newer compatibility
Other
Administrator Rights
MSXML 6
DirectX9.0c
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#3393893 - 09/20/11 06:44 AM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: Johnost]
Warmbrak Offline
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Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 29
Originally Posted By: Johnost
- will cost ca $500 !!! -


Or one can subscribe to the developer version for $9.99 a month. Not bad if you want to give it a go no without forking out $500!

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#3393895 - 09/20/11 06:46 AM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
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1. I love ORBX stuff (top quality add-ons and support and they continue to push the FSX envelope making amazing things possible), they are also great at organizing, marketing and shipping products on time.

2. Prepar3D seems to support my existing FSX add-ons but would be able to put my better hardware to use (ATI crossfire) and is still being actively enhanced and developed.

If LockHeed Martin and ORBX can come up with a better consumer pricing option, it would be very attractive to FSX enthusiasts like myself especially since Flight seems much less hard core, so hopefully Microsoft would allow it as it would not compete for the same hardcore user and they would not lose us to Xplane10.

Definitely something to keep an eye on.

PS just saw there is a new user review of Prepar3D at AVSIM here:
http://forum.avsim.net/topic/349104-prepar3d-a-look-at-lockheed-martins-esp-based-sim/


Edited by kludger (09/20/11 07:10 AM)
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#3393964 - 09/20/11 08:32 AM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
Plane Offline
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Registered: 07/25/11
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kneeldownMicrosoft FLight looks like a Joke, Broadening the interest is a waste for the FS franchise screwy

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#3394134 - 09/20/11 12:06 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
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I hate to say this, but "Flight" will be a joke to the dedicated simmer. Their target demographic is definitely the teenie-bopper so they can use XBOX 360 style controllers to control the aircraft. The only way to add-on will be via an app-store (ala iTunes or any Apple product) and Microsoft will charge out the ying for those.

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#3394197 - 09/20/11 01:19 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
AggressorBLUE Offline
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"John Venema : Flight is not what people are expecting, it won't compete with FSX at all". "

How does he know?
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#3394288 - 09/20/11 03:18 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
Johnost Offline
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I dunno. The prescreens I have seen from Flight look very good IMO, more like FSX with some of the best available addon scenery, and I have no doubts, that M$ is intent on joining the much more lucrative console game market. The Russians have managed to issue some pretty good combat flight sims for consoles, and then issued them for PC with "Easy" to "Simulation" difficulty settings. If M$ would be smart enough to issue Flight with both "Game" and "Sim" modes, they might keep their Sim market share.

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#3394484 - 09/20/11 08:05 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: AggressorBLUE]
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Originally Posted By: aggressorblue
"John Venema : Flight is not what people are expecting, it won't compete with FSX at all". "

How does he know?


I think, and somebody please correct me if I am wrong, the ORBX crew is working on Flight. Not certain though.
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#3394497 - 09/20/11 08:30 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
Dimebag Offline
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Microsoft might win over a few million or so casual gamers with their beautiful visuals, but the lack of realistic and challenging content will lead to it becoming a stale and sterile arcade flying game, of which these new casual 'sim-lite' ers will quickly tire of and move onto the next COD or battlefield. This is all while they alienate their main audience, the dedicated flight sim community, who will mostly not touch this with a 10 foot pole. If they wanted to singlehandedly destroy their flight sim product line, Microsoft are heading in the right direction. They would be better off going in the opposite direction.
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#3394573 - 09/20/11 11:59 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: Dimebag]
clarasdk Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dimebag
Microsoft might win over a few million or so casual gamers with their beautiful visuals, but the lack of realistic and challenging content will lead to it becoming a stale and sterile arcade flying game, of which these new casual 'sim-lite' ers will quickly tire of and move onto the next COD or battlefield. This is all while they alienate their main audience, the dedicated flight sim community, who will mostly not touch this with a 10 foot pole. If they wanted to singlehandedly destroy their flight sim product line, Microsoft are heading in the right direction. They would be better off going in the opposite direction.


Seen from a bussiness perspective what do make most sense? Selling several million copies to the console and pc market or probably a lot less copies to the hardcore sim market?

Do MS earn money on all the addons people buy for fsx or do they only make money on the game it self?

If Microsoft can make a sim that both is attractive to light simmers and the hardcore. And build up a descent marketplace where they also can earn money I think it would be best for all of us.the more money MS (and others) earn on making sims the more sims and updates we will get.

And some of these light sim players might turn into hardcore sim nerds like the rest of us. Which again is good for the sim industri in general!
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#3394852 - 09/21/11 10:40 AM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: Ark]
AggressorBLUE Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ark
Originally Posted By: aggressorblue
"John Venema : Flight is not what people are expecting, it won't compete with FSX at all". "

How does he know?


I think, and somebody please correct me if I am wrong, the ORBX crew is working on Flight. Not certain though.


If that's true, than the quote on the first page is unbelievably unprofessional. Why would you trash a development partner like that?

And frankly, I wouldn't blame MS for catering to the mainstream; You lot are pretty darn judgmental and picky.


Look as the history of the Flight simulator franchise, it's ALWAYS attempted to cater to a hard-core crowd, if not through stock content, than through the ability to develop after market content. When Microsoft attempted to branch out to a more mainstream audience with FSX, they did so not by dumbing down the product, but by introducing game like elements in the form of missions. They didn't take away from us, instead they tried to show the world what's so awesome, entertaining, and educational about flying an aircraft. The franchise has always attemted to be ambassador of the hobby, helping grow the community, and in turn this is the backstabbing they get from that very community?

FSX had a rough landing due to bugs and development issues, but it still TRIED to be as accurate a simulator as a $60 desktop software could.

Finally, I'll quote the MS Flight FAQ

"Q: How does “Microsoft Flight” differ from “Flight Simulator?” Why the new name? What’s changed?

A: With “Microsoft Flight” we’re approaching the virtual flight genre from the ground up, with the focus on the universal appeal of the experience of Flight. We believe the simplicity of “Microsoft Flight” perfectly captures that vision while welcoming the millions of existing Flight Simulator fans. The new “Microsoft Flight” retains the full fidelity simulation longtime fans have come to expect while offering all players a whole new look and feel, a wide range of new game play and challenges, persistent experiences and social connectivity."

Seriously, what more do you want? What does MS have to do to earn the benefit of the doubt?




Edited by aggressorblue (09/21/11 10:42 AM)
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#3395038 - 09/21/11 02:59 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: AggressorBLUE]
Ark Offline
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Originally Posted By: aggressorblue
Originally Posted By: Ark
Originally Posted By: aggressorblue
"John Venema : Flight is not what people are expecting, it won't compete with FSX at all". "

How does he know?


I think, and somebody please correct me if I am wrong, the ORBX crew is working on Flight. Not certain though.


If that's true, than the quote on the first page is unbelievably unprofessional. Why would you trash a development partner like that?

And frankly, I wouldn't blame MS for catering to the mainstream; You lot are pretty darn judgmental and picky.


First off, how are they being unbelievably unprofessional?

Second off, who is "you lot"? lol
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#3395064 - 09/21/11 03:42 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
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Where does everybody get this idea that MS Flight is going to be a casual console arcade flight game? It even says on their own FAQ that it will be just as hi-fi sim as MSFS has ever been.

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#3395076 - 09/21/11 04:16 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: Evil Flower]
AggressorBLUE Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ark
Originally Posted By: aggressorblue
Originally Posted By: Ark
Originally Posted By: aggressorblue
"John Venema : Flight is not what people are expecting, it won't compete with FSX at all". "

How does he know?


I think, and somebody please correct me if I am wrong, the ORBX crew is working on Flight. Not certain though.


If that's true, than the quote on the first page is unbelievably unprofessional. Why would you trash a development partner like that?

And frankly, I wouldn't blame MS for catering to the mainstream; You lot are pretty darn judgmental and picky.


First off, how are they being unbelievably unprofessional?

Second off, who is "you lot"? lol


If he's a development partner, he shouldn't be contradicting what the MS team has already commented on.

"you lot" are the people who are already crying out about Flight being an arcade game.


Originally Posted By: Evil Flower
Where does everybody get this idea that MS Flight is going to be a casual console arcade flight game? It even says on their own FAQ that it will be just as hi-fi sim as MSFS has ever been.


From misplaced quotes like the one from the ORBX CEO, evidently.


Edited by aggressorblue (09/21/11 04:19 PM)
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#3395077 - 09/21/11 04:23 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: kludger]
kludger Online   biggrin
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No one is "trashing" Microsoft, it is the lack of detailed information from them that causes all the sim or simlite conjecture.

As far as giving them the benefit of the doubt, I don't have anything against them, but they are the same company that put out FSX marketing media showing glorious flying scenes over detailed landscapes with moving animals etc that when FSX released when I tried to run it on my fast gaming rig for the time, it ran like a slideshow, the detailed scenery were minimal islands in a sea of generic landscape, and it was missing the moving animals from the marketing hoopla.

So no one is against Microsoft, but their enigmatic marketing and minimal communication about Flight is causing the conjecture, I'd much prefer if they actually communicated like John Venema who is direct about what the ORX products will or will not do and the stuff they deliver not only meets their marketing media but usually even exceeds it, IMHO that is more professional than MS firing the ACES studio and not explaining to the long time fans of the series the reason or strategy behind it or details about the next product in the series.

I for one am interested in Flight whether or not it is hardcore, there's room in the sim market for more than one title, especially if it looks great and can be used for making great screenshots and vids (as WOP another great simlite has shown).

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#3396636 - 09/23/11 06:37 PM Re: Interesting comments on MS Flight and PREPAR3D from ORBX CEO [Re: AggressorBLUE]
Wim Offline
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Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 41
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Originally Posted By: aggressorblue
Originally Posted By: Ark
Originally Posted By: aggressorblue
"John Venema : Flight is not what people are expecting, it won't compete with FSX at all". "

How does he know?


I think, and somebody please correct me if I am wrong, the ORBX crew is working on Flight. Not certain though.


If that's true, than the quote on the first page is unbelievably unprofessional. Why would you trash a development partner like that?
...
I dont think he's a development partner for Flight, infact, judging by his comment about the lack of a robust SDK and a roadmap for Flight, I would speculate that MS didnt give him privileged information about the development process of Flight and they didnt give an SDK either. It appears that Lockheed Martin is giving out a solid SDK. If I were to speculate I would guess that the reason why the Orbx boss is trashing Flight is because OrbX have decided to spend developing power on Lockheed Martins product, at least for now. If he's able to get people to buy P3D now instead of waiting for the full blown sim, MS Flight, then he would have greater chances of selling his products.

Its a cynical point of view, but hey, I'm a cynical person

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