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#3391596 - 09/16/11 09:08 PM trouble calibrating pro pedals in win 98se for LBgold and LB2  
Joined: Jan 2006
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jwardell Offline
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I was getting back into flying Longbow gold and Longbow 2 on my old system and ran into a problem. Lost calibration of stick and pedals somehow, both had been playing fine.
I Noticed that when moving forward and returning the collective to center position the helicopter kept flying forward without a loss of speed. It was as if force trim was engaged. Tried toggleing force trim on/off but it doesn't seem to make a difference. Perhaps force trim is stuck on.
Silly me for trying to solve a relatively minor glitch.....
I thought I might need to recalibrate my joystick so I tried to do it but initially I couldn't get it recalibrated even to the point where it was flyable ( game could be played smoothly using keyboard controls just not the joystick and pedals)
Tried recalibrating controls in windows control panel as well as using CH calibration software, Bob Church's Joystick zero but couldn't get it back recalibrated. Uninstalled the joystick and reinstalled and eventually got it back calibrated enough that I don't immediately spin out of control on adding collective but now I can't get my pedals calibrated so that it isn't constantly adding a left yaw unless I keep steady pressure on the pedal inducing a countering right yaw.
I am using a CH combat stick, prothrottle and pro pedal set up (non USB) connected to the gameport on a sound blaster sound card in a dell P111 1000mHz, 256mB memory, running windows 98se with a voodoo 5500 video card. I am running the program native without any glide wrappers etc.
Doesn't ssem to make a difference what cpu speed is, I tried Turbo.exe to slow the cpu down without success.
Anyone have any ideas?

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#3391936 - 09/17/11 01:55 PM Re: trouble calibrating pro pedals in win 98se for LBgold and LB2 [Re: jwardell]  
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Flyboy Offline
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All of my following answer refers to LB2 specifically, as I don't have much experience with LBG and haven't heard of many controller problems with that before (outside of DOSBox, anyhow).

I've had the problem before where even with the joystick centered you pitch down and fly forwards. I solved this simply by re-calibrating my joystick in Windows Control Panel (this may have to be done every time before you play the game). I don't have a fancy joystick so I don't need or use any third-party software to configure or program the joystick.

Also, you shouldn't really even be able to get into the game, let alone play it, with rudder pedals plugged in AND a joystick. LB2 is famous for not functioning properly, if at all, with more than ONE game controller plugged in. A joystick with built-in throttle is fine, but a joystick and separate throttle is a no-no, nevermind rudder pedals!

I suggest you unplug all game controllers except your joystick. Re-calibrate that in Control Panel, and see what happens then.

Recluse, Eugene, someone - I can't remember, is it just multiple USB game controller devices plugged in that affect the game or multiple gameport devices too?

#3392092 - 09/17/11 06:50 PM Re: trouble calibrating pro pedals in win 98se for LBgold and LB2 [Re: Flyboy]  
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jwardell Offline
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Thanks for the reply,
I got the pedals calibrated finally. I think it was a hardware issue. I unplugged everything, opened the computer and removed and re seated the sound card. Reconnected everything, re calibrated in windows and no more yaw problem from the pedals not being centered.
The original problem is this, lets say I am flying forward at say 50 kts. Cyclic forward to generate forward motion. Then while leaving collective unchanged, let cyclic back to centered position. I think I read somewhere ( Jane's guide or something) that in this scenario the helicopter should gradually slow forward momentum ( but may ascend). In both Longbow gold and longbow 2 on my set up this doesn't happen, I keep flying along at the same 50 kts. It happens regardless of the realism setting for the controls, simple, advanced or expert. I have trim wheels for both throttle axis on my combat stick and played around with changing them in flight to scrub the forward momentum but if I do that then come to a hover, the backward trim adjustment will make the nose pitch up and the helicopter will move backwards and not maintain a hover. If it were a problem with joystick calibration you would think that I would have a problem on take off and be unable to hover. This isn't the case. With the joystick centered on takeoff adding collective I go straight up with minimal drift and no forward motion. Like I said, it seems to be behaving as if force trim is on ( as I understand it to work. Force trim doesn't seem to be functioning for me ( at least in the training missions.... I haven't tried it in an instant mission yet), toggleing shift C doesn't change anything.
I am using the CH set up. The joystick, throttle and pedals daisy chain ending in a single 15 pin connector and are seen by windows as a single game controller so no problems there. ( How do you play this game without pedals? I have a hard enough time manuvering with them, I can't imagine having to use the keyoard instead!!!!)
I have to say this sim is very hard for me to fly with any fine control when on expert realism level, I'm either crashing due to blade stall or popping up from 50 ft to 200 ft while trying to scub off forward speed to come in for a hover and landing.

Do you know have people reported cpu speed related issues when playing Longbow 2 with a P3 1 Gz processor in a native setting like mine ( ie not under Win XP using glide emulation etc)? At least in the training missions I am not noting any missile accuracy problems or any other glitches that I can see.

#3392187 - 09/17/11 09:40 PM Re: trouble calibrating pro pedals in win 98se for LBgold and LB2 [Re: jwardell]  
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Flyboy Offline
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Yeah I know what you mean about the forward motion. After letting your joystick center whilst travelling with forward velocity the speed will eventually bleed off and you'll come to a hover - but notice I say eventually. I've never known it to happen straight away and will likely take several minutes. I've honestly never tried it but I know what you mean. I don't believe there is a modelled force trim as such, the helicopters simply fly as they fly, in that regard. I never knew anything about Shift+C in LB2. I think force trim may have been mentioned in the manual for LB1/Gold but I've honestly never played it enough to even try it out. And even though LB1/Gold goes as far as modelling the DASE function, it's really up to you to decide if it even really does anything in-game (it might be there, but is not even noticeable).

I've always played all sims without pedals. I personally don't like all that clutter and stuff that comes with separate throttles, pedals, etc. I've always used the keyboard! I can't imagine using pedals!

I can't remember specifics off by heart, but I should imagine people have reported problems with 1GHz processors, as really anything above the recommended spec and LB2 starts acting up somewhere along the line.

#3392232 - 09/17/11 10:57 PM Re: trouble calibrating pro pedals in win 98se for LBgold and LB2 [Re: Flyboy]  
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jwardell Offline
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Shift + C is listed in the manual and keyboard reference card for LB2 as well to force trim the collective. DASE is by default on in both LBgold and LB2 and can be defeated with in LBGold with shift + D but apparently is not defeatable in LB2.

#3392240 - 09/17/11 11:18 PM Re: trouble calibrating pro pedals in win 98se for LBgold and LB2 [Re: jwardell]  
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Flyboy Offline
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Don't you mean to force trim the cyclic? Although I guess the LB2 flight model was simply a modded version of the one used in LBGold, I don't believe DASE is documented anywhere as being in LB2. So, if it is there, it's pretty much not supposed to be. Can you even tell?

#3392252 - 09/17/11 11:41 PM Re: trouble calibrating pro pedals in win 98se for LBgold and LB2 [Re: jwardell]  
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jwardell Offline
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Correct, my error. I meant to say force trim the cyclic.
The LongBow 2 manual table of contents lists an entry for coordinated turns on page 4.7 however there is no entry on that page describing the DASE system as there is in the manuals for LongBow Gold and LongBow 1. Perhaps since DASE is an automated system to assist coordinated turns in the Apache they elected to drop the option of disabling it in LongBow 2. ( I can't see any reason you would want to defeat it anyway).

#3392262 - 09/18/11 12:06 AM Re: trouble calibrating pro pedals in win 98se for LBgold and LB2 [Re: jwardell]  
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Recluse Offline
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In LB2, Force Trim for cylic is indeed automatic. I always liked this because it didn't require holding the cyclic forward all the time. I don't think real cyclics are spring loaded to snap back to center, so it doesn't take much force to keep them forward, so I think this concession to gameplay and the autocentering joystick is not a bad thing. You do need to make cyclic corrections to counteract changes in collective and vice-versa, but the stick always stays in the center after the adjustment and acts as if the input that you made is still in effect regardless of the spring centering of the stick position.

I went on a sightseeing helo tour once and was amazed that the pilot flew with pretty much 2 fingers on the cyclic.


Yes I spent more time watching him fly than I did the scenery outside.

W/re to multiple controllers, I think LB2 was before USB sticks were common, so I think it doesn't like multiple Windows controllers. Of course, Cyclic, Collective and Rudder inputs are fine as they are recognized in windows as a single multiaxis controller. I flew previously with Gameport Thrustmaster equipment (FCS+WCS2) and CHPro pedals. Now with USB Cougar, though the CHPRO pedals are still hooked into the gameport on the Cougar as is the throttle so the USB connection for the Cougar is seen as one multiaxis controller.

Last edited by Recluse; 09/18/11 12:12 AM.

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#3392281 - 09/18/11 12:49 AM Re: trouble calibrating pro pedals in win 98se for LBgold and LB2 [Re: Recluse]  
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jwardell Offline
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I don't think Force trim is automatic in Longbow 2, at least according to the Longbow 2 manual, page 4.7 :

""4 : F L I G H T T R A I N I N G

Hover Hold
All helicopters tend to drift and rotate during a hover. If youre hovering and need
to stay put, activate this auxiliary autopilot function. You must be flying slower
than 15 knots (including any sideways velocity, or side-slip). With hover hold
active, the helicopter assumes the current altitude and attitude.
H Toggle hover hold mode on/off
In the Longbow, HOV appears in the upper right corner of the IHADSS. In the
Black Hawk, this is an indicator light. See Black Hawk Analog Cockpit, p. 2.54.
The Kiowa displays hover hold in the VSD. This option deactivates when you
move the cyclic stick or adjust collective using normal controls.
You can go into a hover while autopilot is active. Pressing the hover key (H)
during autopilot will slow you down and bring you into a stable hover.
Force Trim
If youre using a joystick, you can reset its center point. This allows you to maintain
forward flight without keeping the joystick constantly pressed forward.
Simply adjust the rotor pitch until you achieve your desired speed and are flying
level. Then, activate force trim to freeze the cyclic in that position. It will remain
in that position until you toggle this option off. (You can still maneuver using your
joystick, but whenever you return it to the center position, youll be flying forward.)
shift C Toggle cyclic force trim on/off (default is off) ""

I think that is just the way the sim works.....

#3392285 - 09/18/11 12:53 AM Re: trouble calibrating pro pedals in win 98se for LBgold and LB2 [Re: jwardell]  
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Recluse Offline
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Interesting. I have never used the Shift-C toggle, and never had to keep the cyclic forward to maintain forward motion.


Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI nVIDIA nFORCE 680I
ProMOS 4GB DDR2 800
EVGA GTX 560Ti
CoolerMaster CAC-T05-UW CENTURION 5
ANTEC TP3-550 550W
Samsung Syncmaster 2253BW
Soundblaster X-FI XtremeGamer
WinXP SP3

Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
Intel Core i7 3.06 GHz
16 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 770
Corsair Carbide 400R Case
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
CHPro Rudder Pedals

#3392314 - 09/18/11 01:26 AM Re: trouble calibrating pro pedals in win 98se for LBgold and LB2 [Re: jwardell]  
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Flyboy Offline
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Flyboy  Offline
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Me neither, Recluse, and I don't honestly think that force trim was ever properly implemented in the sim.


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