#3391903 - 09/17/11 12:17 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: Panther]
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,921
kilosierra
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,921
The very north of Germany
|
OMG,
that is awful. A LOT of people can celebrate a second birthday from now on. Only a few meters and this could have been a second Ramstein
i7 6700k @ 4,5 GHz GTX1070 Asus Z170 Pro Gamer 16 GB RAM 500 GB Crucial CT500MX200 SSD Toshiba DT01ACA300 HDD Samsung SyncMaster BX2450 LED W10 64
|
|
#3391934 - 09/17/11 01:50 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: Panther]
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 24,314
BeachAV8R
Lifer
|
Lifer
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 24,314
KCLT
|
Wow. Some of the close up photos of the airplane are incredible..(and valuable to the investigation). The broken trim tab is pretty significant. If the elevator failed due to an uncontained engine failure or just due to G-stress the results of an instantaneous pitch or roll reaction can be fatal instantly to the pilot. I remember reading an accident report where a wing failed on an aircraft and the resulting instantaneous torsional forces caused the pilot's heart to detach instantly killing him in a split second. Photos 2 and 3 in this slideshow are pretty incredible: http://news.yahoo.com/photos/air-race-crash-in-reno-1316226189-slideshow/Of interest, besides the obviously damaged trim tab, is that the elevator is not in any deflected position such as you would expect from someone trying to pull up from the near vertical descent. It looks like it is just trailing in a neutral position which makes me wonder if the pilot was conscious.... (speculation) And how about the douchebag in photo/screencap #11 walking through the debris with his cellphone taking photos and video... Sad day.. BeachAV8R
|
|
#3391946 - 09/17/11 02:29 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: Weird_Crapolla]
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 244
jared17
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 244
|
Hi, some very intense images including the plane just before the crash Yes indeed .. thank's Clearly in one of the pics .. the pilot head is not visible ... unconscious ?? OFF Most likely unconscious. From the looks of some videos when the trim tab ripped off, the Ghost pitched up vertically, extremely hard. My only thoughts is that he is slumped over forward and blacked out/unconscious. Just terrible.. Heart goes out to all of those involved in any way.
Intel Core i7 3770k ~ 4.7 GHz 2x EVGA 780TI's 16GB Kingston Hyper-X RAM MSI Z77 GD65 Gaming Windows 7 Ultimate
|
|
#3391949 - 09/17/11 02:38 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: WhistlinggDeath]
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,225
Clownloachlover
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,225
Indiana
|
It may be that the RAR will now stop the race unlimited class racing and/or place the course much further out. Many eyewitnesses said the area was strewn with body parts which makes an accident lawyer's eyes light up. There may unfortunately be no more Reno Air Races.
No one would ever think of running a Auto Race like Daytona without the walls and fencing separating the spectators from the cars, but it's OK for planes to race or do acrobatics so close to crowds? I stopped going to any Air Shows after the one at Kelly AFB were the Thunderbird's did a crossover maneuver while flying straight towards the crowd. This was long before Ramstein AFB accident. Terry
AMD FX-10000@10.0 GHz|128 GB G.Skill@5600 Radeon HD9500 6GB GDDR8|LG 24"x6@Eyefinity^2| Corsair 2500W PSU|Bose 10.1 Surround
|
|
#3391958 - 09/17/11 02:56 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: Panther]
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 20,152
Top Gun
Lifer
|
Lifer
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 20,152
Roch-Vegas NH
|
a friend of mine who's a photographer was 100 yards to the left of that crash site. He's an EMT in Vegas and has seen some terrible stuff, but he said this was rough to witness. He put his gear away and went back to see if he could help in anyway...
very tragic, my prayers are out to all those involved and effected..
XboxLive Tag: DOBrienTG1969 Dave O'Brien,Top Gun PhotographyNikon D500 & D7200 Nikkor 70-200VR AF-s F/2.8 Sigma 50-500 & 17-50 F2.8 Sigma 150-600
|
|
#3391979 - 09/17/11 03:42 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: Panther]
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 11,752
Vertigo1
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 11,752
Zeta Aquilae System
|
It's unbelievable how fast he came in; reminded me of an incoming rocket. my condolences to the victims.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx
“One of the great mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.” -Milton Friedman
Quem Deus vult perdere, prius dementat
|
|
#3392004 - 09/17/11 04:21 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: Panther]
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 436
Richardg
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 436
|
|
|
#3392006 - 09/17/11 04:23 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: JimK]
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,225
Clownloachlover
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,225
Indiana
|
No question about it, it happened so fast with the ghost traveling close to 500mph. Even video can`t keep up. Tragic for sure.
Tough part now will be for the forensic teams to find what is left of the poor pilot. Not a job for a weak stomach. Having trained and done search and recovery it's no biggie. Body parts are not that bad finding, like finding parts to animals. Arm, foot, intestines. The only problem is when you find the head with a face that is really the only thing that shakes you a little. Terry
AMD FX-10000@10.0 GHz|128 GB G.Skill@5600 Radeon HD9500 6GB GDDR8|LG 24"x6@Eyefinity^2| Corsair 2500W PSU|Bose 10.1 Surround
|
|
#3392010 - 09/17/11 04:25 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: Richardg]
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,225
Clownloachlover
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,225
Indiana
|
Looks like the pilots torso stayed intact. You can see the chute that deployed.
AMD FX-10000@10.0 GHz|128 GB G.Skill@5600 Radeon HD9500 6GB GDDR8|LG 24"x6@Eyefinity^2| Corsair 2500W PSU|Bose 10.1 Surround
|
|
#3392027 - 09/17/11 05:02 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: Panther]
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,926
ArgonV
Hotshot
|
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,926
College Station, Texas, USA
|
I noticed in one of the pics of the P-51 before it hit the ground (Number 3 in that Yahoo slideshow), the tail wheel was down. I don't think that's normal for the racing version of this aircraft...? I'm willing to bet a hydraulic failure. Weren't the trim tabs also controlled via hydraulics on the '51?
The missing (Or extremely deflected) trim tab might also explain the roll at the near end, then the plummet into the ground...
"Go Fly A Kite!" -Jason R. FS-WWI Project Leader FS-WWI Plane Pack SiteIntel i9 10900k Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite AC 64GB Corsair DDR4 2933 Vengeance RGB Pro AMD XFX 7900 XTX Merc310 Black Edition LG UltraGear 38GN95B-B 38" monitor Corsair HX1200 PSU 1TB EVO 980 Pro M.2 PCIe x4 SSD 2TB EVO 980 Pro M.2 PCIe x4 SSD Two 2TB EVO 860 SSDs Sound Blaster ZxR Win 10 x64 Pro HOTAS Cougar #4069 w/Uber II Nxt mod #284 & UTM bushings
|
|
#3392033 - 09/17/11 05:16 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: Panther]
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 746
Rends
Member
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 746
Germany
|
Very sad One question: Why wasn't there any explosion and fire? It looks like someone dropped a concrete bomb. Even the smoke was gone after few seconds and left thousands of debris on ground.
|
|
#3392034 - 09/17/11 05:18 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: Rends]
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,926
ArgonV
Hotshot
|
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,926
College Station, Texas, USA
|
Very sad One question: Why wasn't there any explosion and fire? It looks like someone dropped a concrete bomb. Even the smoke was gone after few seconds and left thousands of debris on ground. They generally don't run with much fuel... Plus at the octane they are using it's very hard to actually explode I think.
"Go Fly A Kite!" -Jason R. FS-WWI Project Leader FS-WWI Plane Pack SiteIntel i9 10900k Gigabyte Z490 Aorus Elite AC 64GB Corsair DDR4 2933 Vengeance RGB Pro AMD XFX 7900 XTX Merc310 Black Edition LG UltraGear 38GN95B-B 38" monitor Corsair HX1200 PSU 1TB EVO 980 Pro M.2 PCIe x4 SSD 2TB EVO 980 Pro M.2 PCIe x4 SSD Two 2TB EVO 860 SSDs Sound Blaster ZxR Win 10 x64 Pro HOTAS Cougar #4069 w/Uber II Nxt mod #284 & UTM bushings
|
|
#3392036 - 09/17/11 05:20 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: Panther]
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Pooch
Hotshot
|
Hotshot
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,503
Orlando, FL
|
No, it's not normal for any version of the P-51 Mustang. This was a VERY heavily modified version of the airplane. Who knows what changes to the structure occured during construction. Something may have snapped, way back there in the tail section. Maybe twisting of the fuselage occured , causing the damage to the tail, and forcing the tailwheel down. Conjecture, naturally. I don't think air racing is over. What will happen, is the same thing that happened in this country after several bad air show accidents. The rules will change. The stands will be further away from the show. Minimum altitudes will change, the size or duration of the races may be atltered...etc. But I don't think they'll stop racing. It's too bad, it really is. But, being a pilot, I know that flying is really unforgiving. I managed to get away with a couple of stupid things I've done, but I'm well aware of the fact that it'll catch up with you. Fastest airplane I've flown did 180 mile aan hour. At 500 MPHyou don't even have time to blink, and the ground is there.
"From our orbital vantage point, we observe an earth without borders, full of peace, beauty and magnificence, and we pray that humanity as a whole can imagine a borderless world as we see it, and strive to live as one in peace." Astronaut William C. McCool RIP, January 29, 2003 - Space Shuttle Columbia
|
|
#3392046 - 09/17/11 05:36 PM
Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races
[Re: Panther]
|
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 244
jared17
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 244
|
Only speculation at this point, but as a pilot myself I'm interested in figuring out how it occurred.. Obviously the trim tab broke off.. Most likely Jimmy had nose DOWN trim, due to the high speeds. The faster you go, the more lift the wings are producing. To counter that huge amount of force, you use nose down trim to keep the airplane level. Imagine that huge amount of nose down trim suddenly snapping off of the aircraft and it is going so fast it pitches violently and extremely nose up. That is the point that caused Jimmy to go unconscious. Surprisingly the wings stayed on, maybe shooting towards 8 Gs or so? I've only done aerobatics in a decathlon going 150 mph, but going 400 is a different story. So lets just say 8 g's caused Jimmy to black out. He's an older man, 78, maybe couldn't handle that huge amount of force so abruptly? I don't know who could withstand that. To the people saying he pulled up at the last second and missed the grandstand, it is not true. Fortunately the airplane was going at such a high speed and the wings were producing so much lift that the airplane was pitching up. A careful study of the elevator moments before impact show that it was stick neutral as shown here ; http://photos.lasvegassun.com/media/img/...bb3328710e01e7b which is the reason why he missed the grandstand.
Last edited by jared17; 09/17/11 05:38 PM.
Intel Core i7 3770k ~ 4.7 GHz 2x EVGA 780TI's 16GB Kingston Hyper-X RAM MSI Z77 GD65 Gaming Windows 7 Ultimate
|
|
|
|