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#3391893 - 09/17/11 11:48 AM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: WhistlinggDeath]  
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Woah, just heard about this now.....awful. sigh

I feel bad now because I've just posted some comedy type vids and I did not mean to be disrespectful/flippant or anything. I didn't know about this. Seems to be a crazy year for airshow and race accidents worldwide. I don't really want to 'see' this, and all the YT vid links have been taken down anyway. The description is terrible enough, and its all I need to know. Very sad and I hope those who were hurt get well soon. sigh


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#3391903 - 09/17/11 12:17 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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OMG,

that is awful. A LOT of people can celebrate a second birthday from now on. Only a few meters and this could have been a second Ramstein


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#3391934 - 09/17/11 01:50 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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Wow. Some of the close up photos of the airplane are incredible..(and valuable to the investigation). The broken trim tab is pretty significant. If the elevator failed due to an uncontained engine failure or just due to G-stress the results of an instantaneous pitch or roll reaction can be fatal instantly to the pilot.

I remember reading an accident report where a wing failed on an aircraft and the resulting instantaneous torsional forces caused the pilot's heart to detach instantly killing him in a split second.

Photos 2 and 3 in this slideshow are pretty incredible: http://news.yahoo.com/photos/air-race-crash-in-reno-1316226189-slideshow/

Of interest, besides the obviously damaged trim tab, is that the elevator is not in any deflected position such as you would expect from someone trying to pull up from the near vertical descent. It looks like it is just trailing in a neutral position which makes me wonder if the pilot was conscious.... (speculation)

And how about the douchebag in photo/screencap #11 walking through the debris with his cellphone taking photos and video... rolleyes

Sad day..

BeachAV8R



#3391939 - 09/17/11 02:06 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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Video from a guy who was very close to the crash site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNtERSeYMUM

#3391946 - 09/17/11 02:29 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Weird_Crapolla]  
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Originally Posted By: Weird_Crapolla
Hi,

Quote:
some very intense images including the plane just before the crash


Yes indeed .. thank's
Clearly in one of the pics .. the pilot head is not visible ... unconscious ??

OFF


Most likely unconscious. From the looks of some videos when the trim tab ripped off, the Ghost pitched up vertically, extremely hard. My only thoughts is that he is slumped over forward and blacked out/unconscious. Just terrible.. Heart goes out to all of those involved in any way.


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#3391949 - 09/17/11 02:38 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: WhistlinggDeath]  
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Originally Posted By: WhistlinggDeath


It may be that the RAR will now stop the race unlimited class racing and/or place the course much further out. Many eyewitnesses said the area was strewn with body parts which makes an accident lawyer's eyes light up. There may unfortunately be no more Reno Air Races.


No one would ever think of running a Auto Race like Daytona without the walls and fencing separating the spectators from the cars, but it's OK for planes to race or do acrobatics so close to crowds? I stopped going to any Air Shows after the one at Kelly AFB were the Thunderbird's did a crossover maneuver while flying straight towards the crowd. This was long before Ramstein AFB accident.

Terry


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#3391950 - 09/17/11 02:42 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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No question about it, it happened so fast with the ghost traveling close to 500mph. Even video can`t keep up. Tragic for sure.

Tough part now will be for the forensic teams to find what is left of the poor pilot. Not a job for a weak stomach.


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#3391958 - 09/17/11 02:56 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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a friend of mine who's a photographer was 100 yards to the left of that crash site. He's an EMT in Vegas and has seen some terrible stuff, but he said this was rough to witness. He put his gear away and went back to see if he could help in anyway...

very tragic, my prayers are out to all those involved and effected..


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#3391979 - 09/17/11 03:42 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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It's unbelievable how fast he came in; reminded me of an incoming rocket. my condolences to the victims.


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#3391982 - 09/17/11 03:52 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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Horrible. frown


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#3392001 - 09/17/11 04:18 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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#3392004 - 09/17/11 04:21 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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#3392006 - 09/17/11 04:23 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: JimK]  
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Originally Posted By: JimK
No question about it, it happened so fast with the ghost traveling close to 500mph. Even video can`t keep up. Tragic for sure.

Tough part now will be for the forensic teams to find what is left of the poor pilot. Not a job for a weak stomach.


Having trained and done search and recovery it's no biggie. Body parts are not that bad finding, like finding parts to animals. Arm, foot, intestines. The only problem is when you find the head with a face that is really the only thing that shakes you a little.

Terry


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#3392010 - 09/17/11 04:25 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Richardg]  
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Originally Posted By: Richardg
Best video I've seen so far.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ffe_1316240833


Looks like the pilots torso stayed intact. You can see the chute that deployed.


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#3392027 - 09/17/11 05:02 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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I noticed in one of the pics of the P-51 before it hit the ground (Number 3 in that Yahoo slideshow), the tail wheel was down. I don't think that's normal for the racing version of this aircraft...? I'm willing to bet a hydraulic failure. Weren't the trim tabs also controlled via hydraulics on the '51?

The missing (Or extremely deflected) trim tab might also explain the roll at the near end, then the plummet into the ground...


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#3392031 - 09/17/11 05:10 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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#3392033 - 09/17/11 05:16 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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Rends Offline
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Very sad frown

One question: Why wasn't there any explosion and fire?
It looks like someone dropped a concrete bomb. Even the smoke was gone after few seconds and left thousands of debris on ground.


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#3392034 - 09/17/11 05:18 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Rends]  
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Originally Posted By: Rends
Very sad frown

One question: Why wasn't there any explosion and fire?
It looks like someone dropped a concrete bomb. Even the smoke was gone after few seconds and left thousands of debris on ground.


They generally don't run with much fuel... Plus at the octane they are using it's very hard to actually explode I think.


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#3392036 - 09/17/11 05:20 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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No, it's not normal for any version of the P-51 Mustang.
This was a VERY heavily modified version of the airplane. Who knows what changes to the structure occured during construction. Something may have snapped, way back there in the tail section. Maybe twisting of the fuselage occured , causing the damage to the tail, and forcing the tailwheel down. Conjecture, naturally.
I don't think air racing is over. What will happen, is the same thing that happened in this country after several bad air show accidents. The rules will change. The stands will be further away from the show. Minimum altitudes will change, the size or duration of the races may be atltered...etc. But I don't think they'll stop racing.
It's too bad, it really is. But, being a pilot, I know that flying is really unforgiving. I managed to get away with a couple of stupid things I've done, but I'm well aware of the fact that it'll catch up with you.
Fastest airplane I've flown did 180 mile aan hour. At 500 MPHyou don't even have time to blink, and the ground is there.


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#3392046 - 09/17/11 05:36 PM Re: Tragedy at the Reno Air Races [Re: Panther]  
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Only speculation at this point, but as a pilot myself I'm interested in figuring out how it occurred..

Obviously the trim tab broke off.. Most likely Jimmy had nose DOWN trim, due to the high speeds. The faster you go, the more lift the wings are producing. To counter that huge amount of force, you use nose down trim to keep the airplane level. Imagine that huge amount of nose down trim suddenly snapping off of the aircraft and it is going so fast it pitches violently and extremely nose up. That is the point that caused Jimmy to go unconscious. Surprisingly the wings stayed on, maybe shooting towards 8 Gs or so? I've only done aerobatics in a decathlon going 150 mph, but going 400 is a different story. So lets just say 8 g's caused Jimmy to black out. He's an older man, 78, maybe couldn't handle that huge amount of force so abruptly? I don't know who could withstand that. To the people saying he pulled up at the last second and missed the grandstand, it is not true. Fortunately the airplane was going at such a high speed and the wings were producing so much lift that the airplane was pitching up. A careful study of the elevator moments before impact show that it was stick neutral as shown here ; http://photos.lasvegassun.com/media/img/...bb3328710e01e7b which is the reason why he missed the grandstand.

Last edited by jared17; 09/17/11 05:38 PM.

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