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#3374550 - 08/25/11 02:16 PM My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8
OH58D Offline
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New Mexico USA
Let me introduce myself. I am a retired Army Aviation Kiowa Warrior driver; retired as a Major in 1997. Bought Longbow 2 when first available since it featured my final version of rotor craft (I flew A, B, C & D models of Kiowa).

For 14 years ran the game on a Compaq Presario with a Pentium I 133mhz with 356 mb of ram, originally on Windows 95, then a direct upgrade to Millenium Edition. It had a 12 gig hard drive. This machine finally bit the dirt and I had no way to enjoy my favorite, but dated game. Went on eBay and found a guy who was selling retro machines that seemed to fit the bill. He was offering a mint condition system running Windows 98 second edition, Intel Pentium III 800 mhz, 511 mb of Ram, Nvidia GeForce Mx/Mx 400 and a 20 gig hard drive.

To my dissapointment I could not get Longbow 2 to run on this machine. The game would install fine but when trying to do any missions, instant action, etc. the screen would go black then exit to the desktop. Then I discovered this forum and read lots of interesting information. Did the msconfig and lowered the ram to 256 mb. That still was not enough and no mission would load. Went into the display settings and went from 32 bit color down to 16 bit, 800x600. Guess what, the game runs fine now. If only I could remember all the keyboard controls. Having to read the book again and study the shortcut keyboard guide.

Regards,
OH58D
Located in the wilds of New Mexico USA

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#3374741 - 08/25/11 06:26 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
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Welcome aboard!! Hope you can contribute some of your Real world Helo experience to us. I admit to never flying the Kiowa in LB2 unless absolutely forced to do so. In the SIM, the Scout capability of the OH-58 is overshadowed by the ability of the big fat radar birds to share PFZ information. Even in multiplayer modes, I don't believe I've ever seen anyone fire a Smoke rocket to mark a target. The gunships' targeting ability and ABCCC updating kind of makes it redundant. Note, PLEASE I am in no way denigrating the OH-58 or casting aspersions on its Scout role. I am barely qualified to even think I know what I don't know. Just commenting on how it was modeled in the sim.

On a technical note, are you using the DGVoodoo GLIDE Wrapper? You should be able to get a higher resolution, and use 32 bit rendering, but possibly the older video card doesn't support it. I think the HEAP_PERCENT fix also negates the need for RAM decrease as well, but I don't recall whether this works on Win98 as well.

I used a P3-550 with a Voodoo 5 5500 card for a long time for LB2.

BTW My sister lives in the wilds of New Mexico as well!

Last edited by Recluse; 08/25/11 06:34 PM.

Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
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EVGA GTX 560Ti
CoolerMaster CAC-T05-UW CENTURION 5
ANTEC TP3-550 550W
Samsung Syncmaster 2253BW
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Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
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Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
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#3374845 - 08/25/11 08:59 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: Recluse]  
Joined: Aug 2011
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OH58D Offline
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OH58D  Offline
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New Mexico USA
Recluse, thanks for the greeting. I can tell you that after flying in real life, it actually seems harder to fly with total confidence using a computer sim. Maybe it's the lack of 3D using the flat computer screen. The Kiowa Warrior is actually a very capable bird, although designed for use in a Warsaw Pact scenario as was the Apache. In some ways the Kiowa is more nimble in tight turns than the heavier Apache. Comes in handy avoiding ground fire. In recent years you saw more Kiowa squadrons than Apaches in Iraq.

In Longbow 2 I enjoy loading out both weapons pylons with AGM-114 Hellfires, but normal for us would be two Hellfires on the left pylon and 2.75 inch rockets on the right pylon. And for the Longbow2 (in the sim), using radar guided Hellfires are just a lot more fun than the laser guided munitions.

Just for fun you should try the missions on Longbow 2 with just the Kiowa. More challenging than the fully armed Apache. After flight school at Ft. Rucker, I flew the OH-6 Cayuse "Little Bird", and A,B,C & D models of OH58 Kiowa.

Regards,
OH58D

#3375265 - 08/26/11 12:16 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
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Recluse Offline
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As you may or may not have noticed by now, there is a bug in the game where the rockets no longer work with any accuracy on 'fast' CPUs. Yes, for LB2, your PIII-800 counts as a FAST CPU!! Rockets don't track anymore except at extremely short ranges where (at least for the AH-64's) cannon works much better. Might still be a good Close Quarters Combat weapon for the OH-58. Back in the days of my P5-166 I loved using rockets just out of range of the ZSU's, but now it is almost always all pylons full of Hellfire.


Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI nVIDIA nFORCE 680I
ProMOS 4GB DDR2 800
EVGA GTX 560Ti
CoolerMaster CAC-T05-UW CENTURION 5
ANTEC TP3-550 550W
Samsung Syncmaster 2253BW
Soundblaster X-FI XtremeGamer
WinXP SP3

Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
Intel Core i7 3.06 GHz
16 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 770
Corsair Carbide 400R Case
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
CHPro Rudder Pedals

#3375274 - 08/26/11 12:26 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
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Flyboy Offline
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Hi OH58D, wow, it's great to have an ex-real-life Kiowa pilot here! Welcome to the forums, sir!

I must admit that I, too, only ever really flew the Kiowa when I really had to, in LB2. I just didn't like not being able to see BOTH MFDs from a single seat. I had to keep switching seats to access different info displayed on the two separate MFDs. In the sim, you can kind of get away with doing both crews jobs from one position in the Longbow, but in the Kiowa you really do get a sense of needing TWO crew members.

The situational awareness is another thing what seems to be lacking in the Kiowa, something that when dealing with Warsaw Pact scenarios common in LB2 is much needed. It's all too easy to turn on a radar and have every piece of enemy hardware mapped out for you on the battlefield, simultaneously, but when you have to rely on optics to pinpint targets individually - it makes it very hard.

As Recluse said, not a knock on the real Kiowa by any means - just pointing out some obvious hiccups from flying it in the sim. However, the Kiowa is actually said to be more agile than the Longbow in the sim - something that I have never really noticed on newer computer hardware at least.

I'm sorry that it's taken so long for you to join here and put some posts in, as nowadays the community for LB2 is all but dead - with only us hardcore stragglers left behind. But as you re-learn the sim, it would of course be an absolute pleasure for us to have you here, and for you to note anything about the Kiowa in LB2 verus the real deal. Comments regarding how the sim 'flight model' is compared to the real helicopter, for me, would be especially interesting.

I'm guessing you DON'T look like the chick Kiowa pilot in the film 'Firebirds' (aka 'Wings Of The Apache')!?

copter

#3375323 - 08/26/11 01:25 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: Flyboy]  
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Recluse Offline
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Originally Posted By: Flyboy
Hi OH58D, wow, it's great to have an ex-real-life Kiowa pilot here! Welcome to the forums, sir!



I'm guessing you DON'T look like the chick Kiowa pilot in the film 'Firebirds' (aka 'Wings Of The Apache')!?

copter


LOL... What a bad movie. Sean Young was nice to look at, but when I saw that movie on initial release, my thoughts were: LESS ROMANCE, MORE APACHES!!!!!! Thought the scene of Nicholas Cage going cowboy in the simulator was a bit too much.. and that simulator looked more arcade than any real life PC Helo sim!!


Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI nVIDIA nFORCE 680I
ProMOS 4GB DDR2 800
EVGA GTX 560Ti
CoolerMaster CAC-T05-UW CENTURION 5
ANTEC TP3-550 550W
Samsung Syncmaster 2253BW
Soundblaster X-FI XtremeGamer
WinXP SP3

Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
Intel Core i7 3.06 GHz
16 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 770
Corsair Carbide 400R Case
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
CHPro Rudder Pedals

#3375372 - 08/26/11 02:47 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: Recluse]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8
OH58D Offline
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OH58D  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8
New Mexico USA
For us rotor pilots in 1990, "Firebirds" was nearly as bad as "Apocalypse Now" was for 'Nam vets. They used to call the film "A Pack 'O Lies Now". Keep in mind that when Firebirds splattered onto the screen, the Kiowa D model had only been around for about 4 years. Even in Desert Storm they were still in limited use. In that conflict I flew the C model Kiowa.

By the 1980s female pilots for transport units were becoming more common. Only until the mid 90s did we see more females in combat rotor craft. I don't knock them since I have known some outstanding female pilots with excellent skills and instincts. Would not hesitate to fly with one in combat now.

The Kiowa has totally lived up to it's design and mission: Aero Scout Recon. Never was designed as a primary attack weapons system, although with the correct arming and mission, it can serve in that role. In Afghanistan now, it also serves in armed escort for UH-60s. It's nimbleness and weight (even with full payload) allows it to turn and maneuver faster than the AH-64. Quicker response to ground threats.

In my flying days as squadron XO I flew left seat/gunner while I had a capable CWO in the right seat/pilot. System worked good. As an Air Cav regiment, each squadron was made up of troops; i.e. A, B, C, D, etc. Just like 19th century horse regiments. We would serve as scouts for AH-64 units, fly N.O.E., paint targets then hand them off to the Apaches for the kill.

For my active duty years I was in Grenada (flew the MH-6), Desert Storm, Kosovo and went from being a reservist in 2003 to active duty for the Iraq invasion (OH58-D). Now I am retired and enjoy not being shot at.

Just from experience I can tell you that any Sim (MS Flight Simulator, Janes Longbow 2, etc.) seems harder than flying the real deal. In real life your head is constantly on the swivel and you have better depth of field viewing. It's the case of Microsoft's Flight Simulator series, it's harder lining up with the runway for landing than in real life. With Longbow 2, lacking depth perception and a 3D experience is more like wearing night vision goggles. Just my 2 cents worth.

Once I'm up to speed again with this Sim, I may have to try downloading some of Flyboy's missions.

OH58D

#3375569 - 08/26/11 06:10 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
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Recluse Offline
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Originally Posted By: OH58D


In my flying days as squadron XO I flew left seat/gunner while I had a capable CWO in the right seat/pilot. System worked good. As an Air Cav regiment, each squadron was made up of troops; i.e. A, B, C, D, etc. Just like 19th century horse regiments. We would serve as scouts for AH-64 units, fly N.O.E., paint targets then hand them off to the Apaches for the kill.

For my active duty years I was in Grenada (flew the MH-6), Desert Storm, Kosovo and went from being a reservist in 2003 to active duty for the Iraq invasion (OH58-D). Now I am retired and enjoy not being shot at.

Just from experience I can tell you that any Sim (MS Flight Simulator, Janes Longbow 2, etc.) seems harder than flying the real deal. In real life your head is constantly on the swivel and you have better depth of field viewing. It's the case of Microsoft's Flight Simulator series, it's harder lining up with the runway for landing than in real life. With Longbow 2, lacking depth perception and a 3D experience is more like wearing night vision goggles. Just my 2 cents worth.

Once I'm up to speed again with this Sim, I may have to try downloading some of Flyboy's missions.

OH58D


Thanks for the info! You said you were left seat/gunner. In the sim, the Pilot also has the gunsight. This struck me as odd. A few times I flew Multiplayer in the left seat of the Kiowa and there really wasn't much to do but look at the map and handle comms while the pilot did his thing. Always thought there should be a sight for the weapons there.


Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI nVIDIA nFORCE 680I
ProMOS 4GB DDR2 800
EVGA GTX 560Ti
CoolerMaster CAC-T05-UW CENTURION 5
ANTEC TP3-550 550W
Samsung Syncmaster 2253BW
Soundblaster X-FI XtremeGamer
WinXP SP3

Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
Intel Core i7 3.06 GHz
16 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 770
Corsair Carbide 400R Case
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
CHPro Rudder Pedals

#3375717 - 08/26/11 09:26 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8
OH58D Offline
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OH58D  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 8
New Mexico USA
The Kiowa Warrior has dual controls so if required control of the aircraft can be handled from the left seat. However, the right seat pilot has more operational controls and avionics and he/she can fly and still perform weapons functions with only a button push on the crt. The left seat can actually be locked down and made inoperable if only an observer is in the left seat. Regarding the gunsite, I think the Janes Longbow 2 Sim was really designed for the right seat pilot to be the dominant position, but allowing a switch to the left seat and systems just to add to the reality.

In a combat situation the Kiowa is a dual role weapons system.

OH58D

#3376473 - 08/28/11 02:09 AM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
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Eugene Offline
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Adding another welcome to you, OH58D. Some of us still crank up LB2 for online co-op, which is excellent, when it works. And Flyboy, we are still here and the forum still gets regular views. I imagine the real "threat" to LB2's continued life is Combet Helo and the dedicated guys working towards its release.


Eugene

CoreDuo G620
ASUS P8Z68-V PRO
GeForce 1060
Creative Z
Win10
16 gig RAM
Cougar
#3376728 - 08/28/11 12:43 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
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Flyboy Offline
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Yeah I know you are still here, Eugene, but with basically just you, Recluse and myself in mind - surely you can see that the community is all but dead in the grand scheme of things. Three or four regulars posters and 5 or 6 people viewing the forum at any one time is hardly a reflection of the 'old days'.

Regarding Combat-Helo, it will of course take away some of the LB2 crowd who are more up-to-date with their PC hardware but I think LB2 will always appeal to the retro crowd. And no matter how good C-H turns out to be, it is simply not LB2. No one will ever recreate LB2, because why would you want to? It's a jewel in the crown that cannot be replicated - and shouldn't be replicated in its entirety in this era of PC gaming.

#3376806 - 08/28/11 03:45 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
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OH58D Offline
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OH58D  Offline
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New Mexico USA
I guess I am solidly retro guy. Who else would spend $200 for a Windows 98 machine on eBay? I have spent the past couple of days getting to know again my favorite old game, sitting next to my 12 year old son on his Xbox 360. I can tell you that with my current configuration I am seeing no problems (Pentium III 800, reduced memory at 256 mb). I bumped up the display to 32 bit and so far no problems.

Now, for a reality comment, I can say that the ATA Stingers in LB2 give a much better success rate than in real life. However, compared to such helo sims as Apache Air Assault, that Stinger model gives a kill rate with a lower than normal success. Back in the early 1980s I did some testing and training out at Yuma Proving grounds and Laguna Army Airfield. Never did use the Stinger in an actual combat situation.

OH58D

#3376812 - 08/28/11 03:54 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
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With the Stinger's in LB2, you may not be aware, but their effectiveness is actually determined (partly) by the enemy skill setting. On CAT III (lowest), they pretty much always hit and give good kill ratios. Moving through CAT II ('normal') to CAT I (best), enemy countermeasures and evasive actions make them much less effective at hitting, and when they do hit, may not always offer catastrophic damage. Also, even in a sim such as LB2 (which nowadays would most certainly be classed as a 'sim-lite'), factors come into play such as terrain, weather, angle of attack, speed, direction and closing rate of attacker, launch platform speed, etc.

I am by no means saying you are wrong, I wouldn't show that level of disrespect, just letting you know about how the game dynamics work and what factors are actually taken into consideration.

What CAT skill have you got the enemy set on? Play around with it if you get the chance and see what you think!

Hint: If you find that your Stinger's keep hitting the terrain, pitch the nose of the helo up a bit and loft the missile over the terrain.

#3376872 - 08/28/11 06:24 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
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OH58D Offline
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New Mexico USA
Flyboy, you are correct about the various factors that influence effectiveness of the Stinger. Right now on my gameplay settings, I have the enemy quality set between 2/3 and 3/4 of the way towards Cat 1. I want a competant enemy for this Sim, but not one impossible to kill. As I mentioned before, I never had the opportunity to use the Stinger in combat. At Yuma Proving Grounds we got to engage some remote controlled drones at various speeds and angles of attack. During my real life combat missions, there wasn't anything to shoot at in the way of aerial targets that had not already been destroyed or grounded by the Air Force.

OH58D

#3376935 - 08/28/11 08:35 PM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
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Recluse Offline
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In LB2, the "Stinger Lob" pitching up at the point of release helps to increase Pk. I like to think it is because the missile flies a downward trajectory and cuts through the rotor disk while seeking the heat of the engines, but this may be just wishful thinking. Against fast movers it is a different situation. There, it takes great amounts of prayer and often the sacrifice of small animals to get the stinger to connect with a MiG, assuming you even have the chance to fire.

Again, thanks for the real world information. I wasn't even sure they actually did do any training for helos in the A2A role with Stinger. (FIREBIRDS notwithstanding).


Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI nVIDIA nFORCE 680I
ProMOS 4GB DDR2 800
EVGA GTX 560Ti
CoolerMaster CAC-T05-UW CENTURION 5
ANTEC TP3-550 550W
Samsung Syncmaster 2253BW
Soundblaster X-FI XtremeGamer
WinXP SP3

Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
Intel Core i7 3.06 GHz
16 GB RAM
Nvidia GTX 770
Corsair Carbide 400R Case
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
CHPro Rudder Pedals

#3377091 - 08/29/11 02:10 AM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
Joined: Aug 2011
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OH58D Offline
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OH58D  Offline
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New Mexico USA
Before we had Stingers, we had a program to test how effective the Hydra 70 folding fin rocket was in an ATA scenario. Hottest three weeks of my life at Yuma Proving Grounds Arizona, and this was in the 1980's during one August. Needless to say the aim and pray Hydra was marginal at best against other aircraft. I was flying the Kiowa C model at the time. Didn't go back to Yuma Proving Grounds until 1995 and 1996 when we tested successfully the AIM-92 Stinger. It was a joy to shoot against drones.

Most Army aviation rotor drivers don't get extensive training with high dollar live ordnance like $70,000 Hellfires (estimated orginally at $25,000 a piece). I was lucky to have the privilege to do ordnance testing duty. Got me out of the normal Army base environment and allowed interaction with civilian engineers. An Army associate of mine got to fire the first Stinger demonstration in 1996 before Defense Department brass and the press.

OH58D

#3378738 - 08/31/11 11:46 AM Re: My first post - Longbow 2 user since 1997 [Re: OH58D]  
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