Hey guys,

Im currently running an I7 860 (lynndale) which is slightly overclocked. along with that I have a 460 GTX (also overclocked). and 4gb of relativly fast ram. Altogether, Ive had a lot of fun with this system, as its run all my games well with most settings maxed. However, its been a while and the upgrade bug is setting in.
Im thinking of doing a partial upgrade for now. I am looking at the 2600k (Sandybridge), new motherboard and 8 gb of fast ram. Then overclock it a little. I Priced stuff out on Newegg and it will run me a little over $500 bucks. For now im going to keep my 460 as I just got it a few months ago and dont want to break the bank. Im going to keep my case, Power supply and other stuff as they are all still right up their with anything being sold right now.
My question is, will I see a decent enough increase in speed, or should I wait a little while. Is there something new on the horizion that will make prices drop? There alway is, but wondering if its, so close that buying now would be stupid. I havent been following the hardware stuff latley and feel like Im out of the loop on whats going on.

Also let me add Im not totally sold on Intel, I know nothing about AMD, but im open to going that route too. Im mainly into flight sims, so performance in that area is what Im after. Im also debating between the i5 2500k and i7 2600k.

Thanks for any advice

That would be a real big waste of money. Take that 500 bucks and get a GTX580. Or shop around and get a couple of GTX 570 for SLI. That would make you happy.

Yea, thats another option. Might be a good one too. Ill have to think about it, but thanks for the input.

Rob

With your setup, I'd suggest holding off until Q1 2012 or whenever the next generation of graphics cards releases, if you can. Even if the next generation doesn't deliver, used current-gen cards like the GTX 570 should drop in price even further.

If you are gaming then you can throw as much money at it as you like and the 460 will remain your bottleneck.....the one item you don't intend to change.

You already have a good pc. Just needs a faster graphics card if you are really intent on upgrading. The rest would just be a waste of money.

Is there a Flight Sim that benefits from SLI?
Prove me wrong someone.

I've said it many times before,
Buy the best single card you
can afford and call it a day.

Running SLI (or crossfire,depending on your pleasure) is good if you run triple screens or something,otherwise +1 what he said!!

ps... A little extra ram probably would not hurt either!!!...and it is relatively cheap right now

At most upgrade the video card and monitor.
Your Processor is still top notch and you wont gain much going to the i7 2600k

With your system I would seek to analyze what games you are falling short with, where and why.
Are you having general low fps? If so with which games and when?
Are you having stutters? is your hard drive being accessed when you play?
Interpret the problem then adapt and overcome.

If you just feel the burn of xtra cash and need a Newegg fix, double up on your ram.
Ram never goes out of fashion.

Older flight sims seem CPU limited -- i.e. one maxxed out core.

IL2:CoD is also a 1 core game (for practical purposes). However, it gets a definite and worthwhile speed increase with CrossFireX. IL2:CoD tends to run slow and occasionally hesitates when over London in particular. Runs acceptably smoothly with CrossFireX -- but not so well without it in my tests. 1920x1200, settings HIGH -- turn off Mirrors, Shadows, Grass.

Nonetheless, in general, I agree -- get the best single card one can afford. If that's an HD6950, HD6970, GTX570, or GTX580, then the next step up is CrossFireX or SLI. Depending on costs, one might get more out of GTX570 SLI than GTX580 or HD6950 CrossFireX than HD6970. Also, start with, say, GTX570 and when the new cards come out and prices drop, buy the second GTX570. I did that, bought two HD5870 at end of life for $205 each. Being an AMD/ATI fan, I would go CrossFireX

Regarding the OP: I agree with the above comments -- get the best graphics card you can afford for the most "visible" improvement. The current CPU is good enough. Strictly opinion -- others may "see" graphics performance differently.

Down the road, consider/compare Intel Sandy Bridge i5, AMD Bulldozer, AMD Piledriver (next March), and Intel Ivy Bridge (next March).

Video card upgrade. You can sell the one you bought so it's not too much money lost. I've sold some things on Amazon as an individual seller pretty easily.

Otherwise, what about your peripherals? Maybe a wheel or flightstick upgrade would do more for a better experience?

Thanks for all the great info guys!

Im looking at my system and seeing where my weaknesses are and then looking to change those things only.

-- My video card is my biggist bottleneck. Not that the 460 is a slouch, Ive had good FPS in most games with it, but I think it could be alot better if I upgrade it. Im thinking of a single 570 Ti, but im also open to an ATI or AMD card. Ive always had Nvidia, so I know nothing about other brands.
Can anyone recommend a good single card from any brand? I dont like to go bleeding edge, just one or 2 nothes below top.

--My case (vento 7700) really sucks for ventilation, also its too small and most of the larger video cards wont fit. Its too crammed inside. It looked great, but I can only overclock small amounts due to the heat buildup and lack of fans. Any good case recomendations are appreciated. Im thinking of the Antec Lanboy only because of the modular design.

-- Right now, im using a Heatsink and fan on my CPU, Ive always wanted to try watercooling, but lacked the balls to try it. It seems they have gotten a little easier to set up now, so I may try one of those, Ill keep my current heatsink and fan incase it doesnt work out too well.

-- 4gb ram has been fine for me so far, but like some of you have sugested, its so cheap right now, why not do 8gb? So I will do that too.

-- Power supply is another weakness. I have a 620 watt liberty. I think for overclocking and newer video cards, (especially if I go to SLI someday, but I doubt it). I think I will get a 750 for now.

-- Finally, I have 2 mecanical drives in raid 0, but still notice pauses in DCS a10 when it has to load new scenery. Since SSD drives are cheaper now, Im thinking about getting a 64 gb one to load Just windows,and DCS A10 on and maybe ROF. I figure there should be enough room for just those 3 things installed on it.

Anyhow, here is a link to the stuff Im looking at.

Video card $219
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127565

Case $179
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129092

power supply $89
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371049

SSD $109
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147062

Cooler $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181015

Additional ram $40

Total $716 A little more than I wanted to spend , but do-able.

So I throw about $700 dollars into it and hopfully it will run a little faster.(not much) Im thinking the video card will help a little, the SSD drive will at least speed up boot times, The cooler and better case ventialtion, may allow for better overclock (debatable), additionl ram probably wont make much difference, but why not. I dont think its going to be a major improvement, but then again going to a 2600k, wouldnt either unless I do the video card too and that would be more money.

Another option is to pick up a second 460 cheap, and do SLI, but then I will still have to upgrade the case and power supply.

Too many choices. Maybe I should just sit tight and do nothing untill something comes out that really makes it worth while to just build a new system.

Rob

Additional RAM is good -- if you have 64bit Windows. Otherwise, it won't be used by the 32bit OS and games.

Case: Coolermaster HAF922 under $100 usually and really good cooling -- have 3 of them in the house. Large inside. No tools needed. The case adds no FPS. Get the cheapest one with good cooling and assembly convenience -- under $100 (put savings towards a better graphics card).

Coolermaster HAF922 $90

PSU: All you need is 620W -- unless you go SLI or CrossFireX -- or you have a cheap PSU. Look at my system in my signature. Its loaded, overclocked etc. I've measured the power draw at max utilization (100% CPU + 100% CrossFired GPUs) -- under 600W. Take the money you saved and put it towards a better graphics card.

SSD: No FPS improvement. But, hey it does speed up Windows boot. I'd use the $$ towards a better graphics card (a broken record, I know ).

Cooler: Here's one that I own two of -- performs within a degree or so of the best air coolers (e.g. $90 coolers) in my actual tests (and in on-line test reports) -- for $28. Put the money saved towards ...

Coolemaster Hyper 212

Going 460SLI only and waiting ain't dumb -- $135 delivered and will work with your PSU. It will be a fun new toy to play with SLI -- I say that from experience trying CrossFireX for the first time not so long ago. It will give you valuable experience with SLI. It will nearly double some frame rates. Others won't hardly change. You'll see where dual GPUs work and where they do not. A lot of good stuff coming out September through November -- new CPUs and new GPUs (and the Black Friday sale after Thanksgiving). Save the bulk of your money until then. Meanwhile have fun with SLI

A 460 SLI setup will nearly be equal to a 580. The 560 Ti is about equal or a little faster than a GTX 470. Not that it's a bad card, it's just that you can OC the crap out of that 460 and it will run right about the same speed as a 470. So you really only have a few options for better GPU power. One is another 460 for SLI.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/12/02/geforce_gtx_580_vs_460_1gb_sli/1

The other would be a 570 and OC it which will equal to or very near a non OC 580. You can find some 570 card for a little less than 300 bucks after rebate.

I'm pretty happy with my HD6950. You can probably find it for about the same as that 560Ti, maybe $20-30 more for the one I got. An unexpected bonus was that it wasn't an official "Dirt 3 edition" in the listing but still came with a free code for it at Steam just the same. About $80-100 cheaper than the next one up, the HD6970, so I consider it a good buy. I'm running a 550 watt PS, it's just fine.

That's a sharp looking case, but you could save a lot and still get a very nice upgrade for far less if you want. Put the savings from the case and power supply into the video card if you want to future proof a little more.

Don't forget you may want to swap for some other fans, the ones they send with cases aren't always that great and may be noisy. You may or may not like the LED's.

Order some nice cables, in particular your IDE cables. Nothing uglier inside your case than those damned flat ribbon cables. Good to have a variety of SATA cables too, with straight and right angle low profile connectors. Check your mobo to see if the SATA connections are underneath the graphics card, if so, get very low profile connectors. Some nice cable sleeves to tidy up further in there.

All kinds of fun to have that will blow your budget even more. LOL

Ok thanks again,

Putting in a second 460 is sounding like a good option, at least for now.

I have a question, my current 460 (which I just got 8-9 months ago is discontinued from Newegg. Here is a link to it.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/10/18/asus_engtx460_top_1gb_video_card_review/

I can find a simular card from Asus on newegg, but its black and figure there must be something differnt that im missing. From my limited understanding of SLI, they need to be identical. Would the card referneced above (the blue one I have now) be able to sli with this card now sold by newegg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121391

I cant seem to find a store I can buy the another blue one from. If I caint them SLI the 460 wont work for my unless I buy 2 new 460's which would not be cost effective.

Rob

Not sure, I don't use SLI/Crossfire, but the specs don't match since the one is overclocked.
There's a section on Nvidia's site about it, you might find the specific answer there.

The card you mention you have and the one you link on the egg are different. This one is the same as far as GPU clock. It just has a black shroud. Most of the difference in 460 1Gb cards is the BIOS that controls the speed of the GPU, memory and shaders.

LINK

Being an AMD/ATI fan, I have no experience with Nvidia (in the last 8 years ).

The ATI cards do NOT have to be the same make and model. One can CrossFire HD6950 with any other HD6950 or with HD6970 (the speed will be like two HD6950 -- i.e. slower of the two). There are many other combinations. I was running HD5830 of different make/model. I also ran HD5830 with HD5870. The info on what cards match up is on the AMD site. Not all combinations work. Generally, the first two letters and first two numbers have to match on the two cards (e.g. HD69xx with another HD69xx but not with HD68xx).

Hopefully, Nvidia is the same. That is, any GTX460 will work with any other GTX460. However, don't take my word. Find the info on the Nvidia site or from someone who knows.

Got a friend in a similiar situation on upgrade path.

I don't recommend SLI lots of issues with nvidia & not worth the hassle/payoff. If you are still a FSX nut like me stay with Nvidia, Clouds still get a frame hit on the 5800 & 6800 series ATI cards. Not so bad on 6800 but still there with REX. Plus SLI won't do squat on FSX & most sims.

Go with a 850 Watt PS from Microcenter here: http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0341644
I have the 1000 Watt & no troubles & it is Quality power supply (house brand)$104.99

Case HAF 922 Coolermaster, big lots of room 200mm fans & only $89.99 from Directron & they are out of Texas http://www.directron.com/rc922mkkn1gp.html

Memory go 8gb if your mobo supports it $60.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233196

Cooler, with that case you wont need water cooling. $33.98 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103057

Video Card go nvidia 560Ti here $219.00 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261100
Put one in my buddies to hold hime anothe 6-8 months till the next big thiong comes out.

The processor & mobo should be fine for awhile. The I7 platform is still plenty fast. With a better case, cooling, and power supply you can bump up the overclock too..

Total out the door is roughly $508.94 plus shipping.

Also check pricewatch.com too..

SlackAdjuster

After a long search I found my 460 card on ebay, brand new for $240, which seems a little high. Its the same price I paid for it last sept. The guy has 5 left and its the only place in town for me to pick it up.

My question is should I buy a 2nd one and have 2X 460's in SLI, or for the same price, buy a single 560 Ti?

Rob

Games like FSX, A10, ROF, wont have much impact on frames UNLESS you game at a higher resolution (bigger monitor). I would put the money to spend on a newer card,more ram, case, etc. I have run SLI & Crossfire & the price/payoff isn't there unless you plan on gaming at a higher resolution. The price of that card seems high, what motherboard do you have as most Intel boards do crossfire.

SlackAdjuster

That's a ridiculous price, he's fishing for a big payoff. Move on.

Maybe this will help:
GPU Hiercarchy chart: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best...990,2879-7.html

Best for the money: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best...-6990,2879.html

Get a new upgraded card. If you run into a game that doesn't make use of SLI, you've spent a couple hundred bucks on nothing but extra heat in the case.
Somewhere at Tom's is a comparison chart with the cards so you can see the actual differences performance-wise. 1 step up the chart can make a big difference.

Don't pay more than $150 for a new GTX460 1GB -- and only consider it because it SLIs with your current 460. Much over that, consider a newer, much higher power card. You want to nearly double your GPU power, if you can -- a 20 percent increase won't be too "visible" (measurable but not visible). SLI will double GPU power by definition (it will not double frame rates -- some frame rates on CPU limited games won't improve much).

Stock FSX runs smoothly on my machine. But, I have 3d party terrain, roads, etc installed which can slow things down if all graphics settings are maxed. Pretty much a CPU limited game -- as it works a single core heavily (limited use of other core). Still, in the eye of the beholder...

That's way to much to pay for last generation tech. If you can't find one for 150 or so like Allen said, move on to something else. Why not sell your 460. 560 TI is a little faster than a 470 so I'm not sure that would be a good way to spend your money. You are going to have to jump to at least a 570 to see a good improvement. Cheapest 570 I've seen are around 280 after rebate.

Once again you guys have given me a lot to think about, Thanks!

Ive given up on the idea of a second 460 as the price is not worth it being that there is only 2 places that I found that sell them and the both want ovel $200 for them. I paid $200 a year ago when I bought it! ridiculus.

So Im thinking of keeping my case and power supply, motherboard and processor and just upgrading my biggest bottle neck, which is the video card. I checked my case and have room for a card thats 10.5" but not 11.5, Alot of the 580's and some 570's are 11.5" long, so this is limiting my choices.

Even on my single 460, I get good FPS in all the games I have (and i have a lot), the only games I realy play a lot is Rise of Flight and DCS a10. Now with ROF, My settings are limited because of only having 1gb or ram, so I would love to go beyond that if possible. (my monitor is a 27" Samsung)
The 570 sounds nice, but im thinking bang for the buck the 560ti would be good enough for me right now. Im also thinking a Radeon HD 6950 2GB would be a good choice. Then I good use that extra 1gb of vram in ROF. The card will fit in my case no problem and I my MB supports crossfire and SLI, so if I want to drop in another one at a later date, I can.

Any thoughts on the Radeon HD 6950 2GB?

Rob

Not knowing if you want multi monitors or not, Look at the Ati 5870 Eyefinity 6 card, 2mb and good prices now? Cheers, Jim

Newegg has 460 as low as $135. So, I take it you aren't in the USA or CA.

HD6950 2GB is the "best choice" considering cost -- I would say that, I'm an AMD/ATI fan

But, it does have the 2GB games are beginning to require. And 2GB comes in handy on high resolution monitors or when heavy AA is used. The card is fast. However it can be FASTER. Many HD6950 unlock to become HD6970 (top of the AMD single-GPU line -- no "significant" difference vs GTX580 in normal games) Some have a special BIOS switch on the card to facilitate flashing the BIOS to get the HD6970. Of course, success is not guaranteed. But, even without the unlock, the HD6950 works because its fast and, later, a second HD6950 on close-out sale would give a low cost CrossFireX powerhouse (compare prices of two HD6950 on sale to a single HD6970 or GTX580 -- and the two HD6950 will be much faster).

All opinion of course

The 6950 is a pretty long card, but like I said, I like it a lot. Mine is the 2GB, which I don't think there's much call for now, but should help it stay relevant as games develop. Fits in nicely above the 560Ti but just below the GTX 570 and HD 6970 performance-wise. Again, I'm using a 550 watt power supply, so you don't need to upgrade.

You can still upgrade your case for a lot more room and far better cooling for a lot less than you were looking at. Move your components and power supply to something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153
I'm using it and very happy with it, there are others well under $100 that do a great job. Cooling is extremely good. Easy access, 2 removable panels. $50.
For about $200-300 (adding the memory upgrade) you can make a drastic change, like a whole new machine.

Agree, Rosewill case is a reasonable choice. I bought one.

Since its still in the box, I can't speak from experience -- but, it looked like a real good deal for $50. I'll find a use for it, I'm sure

Plenty of room for the 6950 and just about anything else.


Thought my old 250 was long, this thing adds about an inch.

OK, you sold me on that case, I like its simple design and black interior. Cant beat the price either!
Cant wait to get rid of this Asus Vento 7700. It looked cool at the time, but its a horror to work on and has horrible cooling.

I think im going to get the Radeon card, never had anything other than Nvidi, so it will be nice to try something different for a change. This upgrade is not a lot cheaper than I originally estimated, thanks to the help on this forum. Im not expecting major performance leaps, but thats where all the fun is, just trying to squeeze out a few more fps.

One question, Can eyefinity work on two monitors of different size?

Rob

I'm getting some new Corsair RAM - I'm replacing my old RAM with 4gb Corsair, the tool on their site was very helpful for anyone not sure which RAM is compatible with their motherboard.

Dual monitors yes, but not eyefinity.
I'm using a 24" widescreen and a 19" 4:3. I alternate based on games or use, or use them together as an expanded desktop. Not useable in most games though, the only one I've run across that lets you use 2 is World in Conflict, so it's not like it's a 2 screen version of a triple monitor set up. Not saying it's not possible, but I think 3 of the same monitor is required for that.
However, it does let you program quick hotkeys to change up the screen layout which I LOVE. My nVidia didn't have that, making me go into the software to do it, so I'm really enjoying it. I've got it set to switch from one monitor to another, turn on/off the secondary monitor and to switch primary monitor. Nice and quick.
I've been with nVidia for the last 10 years too, this was my first AMD/ATI since a major disappointment back in 2000. Seemed to be the most for my budget, and easier to go triple screens later on, apparently, so I made the switch.

First time I started up Eyefintiy, I used 3 different monitors (26.5" TN, 24.5" TN, 24" H-IPS), -- but all 3 were 1920x1200.

I just tried two monitors in Eyefinity (while writing this) -- it works. The center of view is the bezel between the two monitors. Like an old fashioned car or an aircraft with two separate front window panels.

Interesting experiment to see what you get when you hook up two dissimilar resolution monitors and invoke Eyefinity. I assume it will actually work somehow. But, maybe with a clipped view. Just a guess.

They should work as a standard two monitor system (I used to use a 4:3 and 16:10 of differing resolutions for an extended desktop with my ATI card).

Now this is a great way to sell a computer case! I bet nobody even looks at the case...

Rob

Case?