|
|
#3523868 - 02/21/12 09:50 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
|
Member
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 123
|
S-300 system simulation cannot be done, as I have only publicly available materials. Hummm ! I guess you need some S-300s FCO's, to be able to done simulation ! (may be help can came from your neighbor Czech, or Russian (I think they are a lot), if some one read this topic !) Several systems are investigated for the far future of the SAM Simulator:
I would really like to avoid the SAMSIM to be called a "Terrorist Training Tool"
I'll be honest with you, you have put your finger in important "pusk" or "Eject" button; 1 - What was your intention at the beginning, when you started developing this stuff of SAM Systems Simulators, for me, without a doubt it's a hobby for you Basically, and without doubt also, you want to rebuild the operational air inside the firing cabin, -may be you was an old FCO, or have worked around-, SO:- If your intention at the beginning, was to develop Simulations of the whole system, as a complete stand-in itself SAM systems,you are far, far, far, a way from completing your right intention of the beginning, and your works still truncated !none of the systems is full simulated, this makes them to bring down aircraft "foolishly" only, no simulations of others possibilities, and other parts of the systems ...... (function control, system Akord, -may be bring all switch and Knobs, all lights indicators, introduce all dynamics Blocks, -TV Karat System-, and bring all off these pieces and systems BACK TO LIVE ... ), you know certainly better than me all the stuff ... For me, that's the REAL CHALLENGE !- Or do you just want to bring down aircraft only? ... If yes, you have full succeeded in that !, you can stop development of each system, and start the search, and looking for new systems to be developed, and just bring down aircraft too ! ("foolishly"). If no, then go back and complete the remaining work, to be complete state of the art simulation system. 2 - In fact they are only two types of terrorists: - terrorist by themselves (and by their stupidities acts !). - and manipulated one. the two types are fools of the first class, and are pitifully ignorant, can't learn any think .... (I'm talking about real ones, not about who Some designated as, for some reason, and they aren't ...) so, don't worry for this point! Full simulating S-25M Berkut (SA-1) as an historical system, or 2K12 KUB-M3 (SA-6) after his "End of service", or S-300PS ( even if done as a game not as a full simulation),is more interesting, personally I do not wish to see Shilka's Simulation, for me it's just a Gun not a Missile System !
Edited by wasfa (02/22/12 01:52 AM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#3523869 - 02/21/12 09:51 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
|
Member
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 123
|
I'd love to see MIM-14B Nike Hercules. It would great be to learn Western SAM system. Besides, the manuals for this system are available on various websites, launch videos for sounds are also available. You can also find people who used to work on it. If you need pictures maybe SF-88 museum can help you?
@wasfa - why do you consider this system a joke? Because it had illuminated buttons instead of two-way switches? Something that some cockpits designed 40 years later have been criticized to be lacking? Or because it had an instrument showing how many missiles there were left? I would certainly not consider it as a joke, with W31 boosted fission warhead, a 4 miles (7.5km) miss is considered 100% kill. Red stripe means 40kt... Perhaps this is what I was meaning, we have a popular example who said "Bad Tailor prolong always the sewing thread !" (he consumed much more sewing thread then a good tailor!) I don't know why, but just looking to the stuff of this system feel me as an "Bad system's efficiency", that's why they need very larger destruction zone, to fill up the difference. (a 4 miles (7.5km) miss is considered 100% kill.)) it's really crazy, it's a "Mass Destruction Weapon", not any more an "Air Defense Missile System". Is there any credible information about real launching tests, or any real launching situations, or even combat ?? (for conventional war head, I'm not asking for nuclear war heads !) Hpasp, Can you put us in the real picture of this system !. (if you have a time for that !)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#3523870 - 02/21/12 09:51 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: ricnunes]
|
Member
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 123
|
P. P. S. I wonder how SAM's radars and other electronics would feel after a nuclear detonation not so far away - it's a vacuum tube technology, but still - electromagnetic pulse would be very strong, let alone other effects. If I'm not mistaken Vacuum Tube technology is basically immune to electromagnetic pulse (as opposed to Transistor and Integrated Circuit tecnologies which are very vulnerable to electromagnetic pulse). My knowledge said that each system, or device, electrically powered, will be destroyed by the electromagnetic shock wave ! the usual counter measure is to turn off all electrical appliances immediately, and discharge it, if possible, and time allow that, my think is even Vacuum Tube will burn, if it still powered. That's what i Know !
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#3523889 - 02/21/12 10:38 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: montieris]
|
Member
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 123
|
Comparing maximum range... S-125M Neva - 25km S-300PT Biryusa - 50km MIM-14B Nike Hercules - 180km ... certainly NOT A JOKE! Comparing maximum range...Adding some extra fuel, can add extra range ! but, if we talk about efficiency, is it an real effective system ? is it any combat situation for this system ? (or any historic real situation ?) S-300PT Biryusa - 50kmI thought this system have between 90Km to 140Km range, not less ! I would like to note the difference of the SA-10/20/21 systems. ... so: The first release of the S-300P system was accepted in 1978. It was the S-300PT Biryusa - SA-10A, and it succeeded the S-25 Berkut - SA-1 ring around Moscow. It used the V-500K 5V55K (Grumble mod.0) missile, with 47km range utilizing command guidance. I would like to note the difference of the SA-10/20/21 systems. I feel, that the situation is closer to the time of the SA-2, where three systems were mixed by the west. Just to make it clear... SA-75 Dvina - SA-2A with missiles 1D, 11D SA-75M Dvina - SA-2B/F with missile 11D S-75 Desna - SA-2C with missile 13D S-75M Volhov - SA-2E with missiles 20D, 5Ya23 ... so: The first release of the S-300P system was accepted in 1978. It was the S-300PT Biryusa - SA-10A, and it succeeded the S-25 Berkut - SA-1 ring around Moscow. It used the V-500K 5V55K (Grumble mod.0) missile, with 47km range utilizing command guidance.  The second release of the S-300P system was accepted in 1983. It was the S-300PS Volhov-M6 - SA-10B, and it succeeded the S-75M Volhov (SA-2E) and S-125M Neva (SA-3B) units around the Soviet Union. Its export version was called S-300PMU Volhov-M6 - SA-10B, and it become available from 1988, and was exported into Bulgaria, China, and Slovakia. (GDR) It used the V-500R 5V55R (Grumble mod.1) missile, with 75km range utilizing seeker aided ground guidance.   The third release of the S-300P system was accepted in 1989. It was the S-300PM Volhov-M6M - SA-20A, and it succeeded the remaining S-75M Volhov (SA-2E) and S-125M Neva (SA-3B) units around the Soviet Union. Its export version was called S-300PMU-1 Volhov-M6M - SA-20A, and it become available from 1994, and was exported into China, Greece and Vietnam. It used the 48N6 (Gargoyle mod.0) missile with 150km range, utilizing seeker aided ground guidance and lofted flight profile.   The fourth release of the S-300P system was accepted in 2004. It is the S-300PMU-2 Favorit SA-20B, and is available for export only, to satisfy the wannabe customer of the S-400 system, China. It used the 48N6D (Gargoyle mod.1) missile with 200km range, utilizing seeker aided ground guidance and lofted flight profile.   The fifth release of the S-300P system was accepted in 2007. It is the S-400 Triumph - SA-21, and it succeeded the S-200 (SA-5) units around the Soviet Union. It is not available for export. It uses the 48N6DM (Growler) missile with 250km range, utilizing seeker aided ground guidance and lofted flight profile. I have read this information somewhere, but I have lost the site place, but look at this one, ( I have just found it!): this is in "Stalin Line Museum": it' about system S-300P fielded in 1979, missile 5V55K and 5V55R - for a range between 5Km to 75Km ! Central Museum of "Armed P.V.O. Forces": about system S-300PT fielded in 1978, with a range between 5Km to 75Km also !. the two museum are talking about 75Km range ! is it propaganda ??
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#3523932 - 02/22/12 12:34 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
|
Member
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 123
|
Back to the simulator ! I have noticed some thing, so,questions : - In volhov, or Dvina, "PUSK" and "VROSVRAT" Buttons works as intended for ! (even if it's inverted position in Dvina!) But in Neva "PUSK I" and "PUSK II" works, and "VROSVRAT I" and "VROSVRAT II" Buttons don't work ! is it intended to be like that ( "VROSVRAT" Buttons don't work), because it's like that in reality, or something is missing, or simply "not simulated function" !?? - and in this case, in Neva system, how can we "abort" after launching missile ?- In Volhov, or in Dvina, after launching missile(s), we can "unlock" all automatic tracking modes (range, elevation and azimuth) but we don't lose the missile, still possible to "manually" guided them to another target, in the same orientation of cores ! in Neva system, if we "unlock" the automatic tracking mode, we lose right now the missile, and it disappear from all radars scope ! so, is it normal behavior ?? and just by curiosity, what's for the RED Button, to be RED stand for "Dangerous" or "warning" ! and the Black Switch pointed by the "Black Arrow" !  What's inside the 3 green squares,, I have noticed in square n°1, the two green light exchange lighting, ( not always, I don't remember exactly what i have do!), but they never lights both at the same times ! and what could do the two potentiometers ? what's for the rectangular windows, in square n°2, looking well, it looks like an indicator instrument, what is it ? What's inside the green squares n°3,, it seems not "at live" switch ?
Edited by wasfa (02/22/12 02:15 AM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#3523952 - 02/22/12 02:11 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
|
Member
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 123
|
I can't understand how indicates these two green squared Indicator, or haw it work's ? 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#3523970 - 02/22/12 04:04 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: wasfa]
|
Member
Registered: 12/31/09
Posts: 1708
Loc: Hungary, Europe
|
Perhaps this is what I was meaning, we have a popular example who said "Bad Tailor prolong always the sewing thread !" (he consumed much more sewing thread then a good tailor!)
I don't know why, but just looking to the stuff of this system feel me as an "Bad system's efficiency", that's why they need very larger destruction zone, to fill up the difference. (a 4 miles (7.5km) miss is considered 100% kill.)) it's really crazy, it's a "Mass Destruction Weapon", not any more an "Air Defense Missile System".Contrary in my opinion. A Nike battery commander has wide choice (3~4) of weapon types, to use depending on enemy threat. If my task would be to defend Hanoi by any means during Linebacker-II, I would choose Nike instead of S-300 or Patriot. Can you put us in the real picture of this system !. (if you have a time for that !)HISTORY OF THE NIKE SYSTEM Toward the end of World War II, and particularly during the period immediately following the war, it became apparent that the existing gun-¬type weapon systems were no longer able to cope with the rapidly advancing air and air supported offensive weapon system threats. At the request of the US Army Ordnance Corps, the Bell Telephone Laboratories conducted a four month study program and, in 1945, submitted the NIKE program to Ordnance. This system possessed a range capability exceeding 45,000 meters and an altitude coverage of over 15, 000 meters. In 1953, NIKE AJAX became operational and was the first air defense guided missile system to be tactically deployed in the United States and allied countries. In the latter part of the decade, of the l950`s, aircraft performance became greater, altitudes and payloads increased, and a missile system with greater capabilities than those of AJAX became necessary. Tactically deployed since 1958, the NIKE HERCULES has replaced the NIKE AJAX as the first line of air defense. In replacing AJAX, the HERCULES system has expanded the air defense perimeter to counter supersonic aircraft operating at altitudes in excess of 30,000 meters and ranges beyond 100,000 meters. Since 1958, offensive weapons have undergone extensive technological changes and development to include Mach-2 high altitude aircraft and Mach-3 air supported missiles. In addition, the aircraft and air supported missiles may carry Electronic Counter Measure (ECM) devices. To counter these advanced offensive weapons, the Improved NIKE HERCULES system was developed. The HERCULES also has a limited anti-missile capability. In test firings at White Sands Missile Range, New Mexico, the HERCULES system has proven to be extremely accurate, scoring direct hits against the CORPORAL surface to surface missile and against other HERCULES missiles being used as surface to surface type weapons. These tests indicate that the HERCULES system has an excellent anti-missile capability against tactical surface to surface and air to surface missiles. The anti-missile capability of the HERCULES missile system has been greatly improved by the addition of the Anti-Tactical Ballistic Missile ( ATBM) modification. More here: http://ed-thelen.org/I believe that on SA-3 "Vozvrat" button didn't work Neva Vozvrat is not simulated. If you want to lose your missiles, just stop tracking the target. (AS->RS) Are you sure that Hungarian army have any S-300 systems fielded ? I don't think so !I'm sure, that Hungary never fielded it. Two battery was planned, base selected, first group of FCO's were trained, than suddenly the Cold-WAR ended. Hungary fielded: SA-75 Dvina (SA-2B), SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F), S-75M Volhov (SA-2E), S-125M Neva (SA-3B), KRUG (SA-4), S-200VE Vega (SA-5B), KUB (SA-6), Strela-1, Strela-2, Strela-10, Igla and Mistral. Central Museum of "Armed P.V.O. Forces": about system S-300PT fielded in 1978, with a range between 5Km to 75Km also !Correct, after an upgrade, it can use the 5V55R missile if the S-300PS system. (Also the S-300PS can use a further upgraded missile, with 90km range.) Just this option was not available during fielding, its a later upgrade. - In Volhov, or in Dvina, after launching missile(s), we can "unlock" all automatic tracking modes (range, elevation and azimuth) but we don't lose the missile, still possible to "manually" guided them to another target, in the same orientation of cores ! in Neva system, if we "unlock" the automatic tracking mode, we lose right now the missile, and it disappear from all radars scope ! so, is it normal behavior ??It was already discussed earlier. It is a feature of the Neva system. During target acquisition mode, it simply cannot track the missiles. (check manual discussing antenna system) and just by curiosity, what's for the RED Button, to be RED stand for "Dangerous" or "warning" !It operates the SDC momentarily, till it is pushed. Not simulated. I have noticed in square n°1, the two green light exchange lighting, (not always, I don't remember exactly what i have do!), but they never lights both at the same times !They are indicating the frequency what the system use. (Neva has two operational frequency.) There is an option to alternate it randomly, to fight analogue jammers. what's for the rectangular windows, in square n°2, looking well, it looks like an indicator instrument, what is it ?The Neva is also capable of autonomous target acquisition, without the use of the P15. (similar to Volhov's Krug/Sect scan) This indicator is for that. This function is never used in real life, so it is not simulated. I can't understand how indicates these two green squared Indicator, or haw it work's ?Indicator of the missile type. 5V24 or 5V27. Phew...
Edited by Hpasp (02/22/12 05:02 AM)
_________________________
Hpasp Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch" http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home
While Fighter Pilots made movies, SAM Officers made History. (U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#3524083 - 02/22/12 09:56 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
|
Member
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 123
|
Hpasp, Thank you for your effort and for this fast replies ! . and Thank's again for all the time you spend to replies to us !
Can I hope to see the rest of the answers, if it exist of cores, or must wait the rest to be ready !
Edited by wasfa (02/22/12 10:38 AM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#3524258 - 02/22/12 02:34 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
|
Member
Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 123
|
Edited by wasfa (02/22/12 07:14 PM)
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#3524338 - 02/22/12 04:37 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
|
Member
Registered: 12/27/11
Posts: 420
|
Super simple video. I loved it! Thank you very much! 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |