#3325123 - 06/22/11 03:04 PM
Controller recommendations
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 20
robnpat
Junior Member
|
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 20
MO
|
Looking at a new controller when CH comes out and thought about the Logitech G940. I have the Logitech Extreme3D but want something different for CH. Any thoughts? I just can't wait for CH to be released, even in a Beta form
|
|
#3325167 - 06/22/11 04:18 PM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: robnpat]
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 128
Rich_Price
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 128
|
For helos it's got to be the Virtual Blade!! Not that I'm biased or anything!! Edit: with Apache Flights Controls in development.................. Errr still!!
Last edited by Rich_Price; 06/22/11 04:21 PM.
|
|
#3325208 - 06/22/11 04:57 PM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: robnpat]
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
HitchHikingFlatlander
Senior Member
|
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
California
|
How is that going Rich is it still on the back burner? Or are you working on the controls again?
I've got a bad feeling about this.....
|
|
#3325311 - 06/22/11 06:13 PM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: robnpat]
|
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,268
Flexman
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,268
Leeds, England
|
I'd love to test with the Logitech G940, using a force-sensing stick (X65) rekindled my enthusiasm for something that wobbles I'll shoot Logitech a support/eval query and see if they want to help us out with some testing. Non of the other stick makers responded to such inquiries so I don't hold my breath. Rich's Virtual Blade system will be getting our full support of course. Can't wait to try out the new advanced flight model on it, getting close to that milestone. A floor mounted system is a perfect way to feel connected to a cockpit. It's more of an installation than a joystick though Much much harder to sneak past the wife when you have to move a sofa out of the way to use it. Force feedback isn't something we can easily support due to the multi-platform interface API being used and there shouldn't be a need to add force-feedback. I can see how it might benefit certain events, to relay cues normally felt through the airframe. It's not a priority and I wouldn't rule it out at a later date. New toys on my desk have a way of generating enthusiasm and extra bits of code. The G950 looks like it has enough switches to operate all of the stick mounted Apache functions. Certainly looks the part and probably built like a tank. Currently testing with a Saitek X65F but not liking the form factor much. I'm used to flying helos with my arm rather than wrist, so I don't get on with force sensing, I like the movement. X52 is better suited in that respect. That's just my personal preferences, technically it works really well, quite sensitive however I've found Saitek drivers only map a sub-set of the rotary axis to the Windows media layer so they are not all available. Not having tested any other of the more recent HOTAS systems I can't say if they do the same thing.
|
|
#3325313 - 06/22/11 06:15 PM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: Rich_Price]
|
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,268
Flexman
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,268
Leeds, England
|
Hellooo!!
They will be on the back burner until the end of August when I'm back from honeymoon. They will then be moved straight to front burner and on full blast. I have been given free reign by the boss for after we get back!! Lol Blimey, you got/getting married? Congratulations. Great timing too
|
|
#3325787 - 06/23/11 07:21 AM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: Flexman]
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,288
arneh
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,288
Oslo, Norway
|
I'd love to test with the Logitech G940, using a force-sensing stick (X65) rekindled my enthusiasm for something that wobbles I'll shoot Logitech a support/eval query and see if they want to help us out with some testing. Non of the other stick makers responded to such inquiries so I don't hold my breath. I tried to get one from them in return for implementing Force Feedback and support for the specific G940 buttons with lights in EECH. They initially were supportive and said they would do it, but then just stopped replying to any further inquires. But since you have a new sim instead of modding a 10-year-old one, you might be more successful Force feedback isn't something we can easily support due to the multi-platform interface API being used and there shouldn't be a need to add force-feedback. I can see how it might benefit certain events, to relay cues normally felt through the airframe. I think the biggest advantage to force feedback in a helicopter sim is that you can implement the force trim properly. It may not seem like much, but once you get used to it, it feels so much better to just have the center position move when you press trim, instead of having to move the stick back to center.
|
|
#3325789 - 06/23/11 07:32 AM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: Flexman]
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,235
tagTaken2
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,235
Gone
|
Force feedback isn't something we can easily support due to the multi-platform interface API being used and there shouldn't be a need to add force-feedback. I can see how it might benefit certain events, to relay cues normally felt through the airframe. It's not a priority and I wouldn't rule it out at a later date. New toys on my desk have a way of generating enthusiasm and extra bits of code.
Is there a trimming system, ala Black Shark?
|
|
#3325811 - 06/23/11 08:54 AM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: robnpat]
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,269
AD
Hotshot
|
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6,269
South East Asia
|
I'm a big fan of CH Products gear so I use the CH fighterstick. I've found it to be a great multi-purpose stick with a light sensitive feel. I used a Saitek X-45 before that and found it to be clunky and unresponsive, it has a decent throttle though. Cheers
|
|
#3325822 - 06/23/11 09:32 AM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: robnpat]
|
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,268
Flexman
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,268
Leeds, England
|
I've avoided a Black Shark style trimming system which is suitable for military spec simulation but isn't desktop friendly.
The advanced flight model has an auto-trim feature which doesn't require force-feedback. With auto-trim you shouldn't have to think about it and doesn't exclude any joystick controller. How does it work?
During normal flight the pilot is naturally correcting attitude when changing speed or altitude. Auto-trim gradually moves this back to centre position over time. The result is that you position the stick back in the centre as part of small corrections to flight attitude you make anyway. It's totally intuitive.
*edit* This can engaged/disengaged from the FMC page, left column.
When I get around to adding force-feedback there will be a force-trim system which should be a simple matter of disconnecting auto-trim and setting the physical stick position to the virtual stick position (then attaching an input to toggle this mode).
The Khronos group that oversees OpenGL specification are working on a cross-platform input specification which I hope will simplify/unify controller interfaces...someday. That day can't come soon enough.
Last edited by Flexman; 06/23/11 09:37 AM.
|
|
#3325828 - 06/23/11 10:00 AM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: arneh]
|
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,268
Flexman
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,268
Leeds, England
|
I tried to get one from them in return for implementing Force Feedback and support for the specific G940 buttons with lights in EECH. They initially were supportive and said they would do it, but then just stopped replying to any further inquires. But since you have a new sim instead of modding a 10-year-old one, you might be more successful I hope so, Logitech I presume have a simple SDK like they do with their keyboards. Saitek have something similar with the DirectOutput SDK which I got working but they never got back to me. Hey ho. A smart person should wrap up all these different interfaces but it's a lot of work. I think the biggest advantage to force feedback in a helicopter sim is that you can implement the force trim properly. It may not seem like much, but once you get used to it, it feels so much better to just have the center position move when you press trim, instead of having to move the stick back to center. I'll need some FF hardware to play with. And coding will have to be via SDLs force-feedback calls. Otherwise I'll have to go backwards re-do the joystick code with DirectInput. Unless there's an alternative generic FF interface?
Last edited by Flexman; 06/23/11 10:02 AM.
|
|
#3328844 - 06/26/11 07:29 PM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: robnpat]
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 88
DethJeff
Junior Member
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 88
|
flex... Im curious what you dont like about the X-65 ( I have one)... I THOUGHT I would miss the "physical referencing" that you get from a moving stick, but I didnt. I was wondering what your thoughts on this were. I find my self porpoising a lot in A-10, but, in Apache: Air Assault I find the stick works very well (could be because of the dumbed-down x-box flight model too). two things I like about it is the ability to switch the amount of force on the fly and the fact that your hand isnt moving makes repositioning of your hand for HOTAS commands unnecessary. I wish the ergonomics were better (the stick & throttle are too big for me) and the crappy plug going to the stick would stay in. Overall (so far) i found the x-65 isnt horrible but isnt great... just different. I will say in A-10 I have to pull fairly hard to come out of dives and I do like that a lot.
|
|
#3330118 - 06/28/11 07:36 AM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: Flexman]
|
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,235
tagTaken2
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,235
Gone
|
I've never had a perfect joystick though.
Sorry to hear that. My MSFFB2 would be one of the first things I would evac from the house during a fire. Probably the first thing.
|
|
#3330695 - 06/28/11 08:36 PM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: tagTaken2]
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
Recklezz
Junior Member
|
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 73
wherever I might be that day
|
I've never had a perfect joystick though.
Sorry to hear that. My MSFFB2 would be one of the first things I would evac from the house during a fire. Probably the first thing. God I hope you're not married... If you are... I hope your wife doesn't read the forum
|
|
#3331901 - 06/30/11 11:03 AM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: robnpat]
|
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,268
Flexman
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,268
Leeds, England
|
Looking at a new controller when CH comes out and thought about the Logitech G940. I have the Logitech Extreme3D but want something different for CH. Any thoughts? I just can't wait for CH to be released, even in a Beta form Just to announce we'll be adding the G940 and Extreme3D to the official list of supported joysticks. I've just done some preliminary testing with both the Logitech Extreme3D and G940. The G940 is a surprisingly nice stick and throttle with the same rubberised feel as the older Saitek hardware. A really nice HOTAS for flying the Apache especially with the self-centring disabled. I'll be adding force-feedback support for the trim lock.
|
|
#3332262 - 06/30/11 08:36 PM
Re: Controller recommendations
[Re: robnpat]
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 217
Raptor9
Rotorhead / GFC
|
Rotorhead / GFC
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 217
Central US
|
Flex, I've never used a force feedback gaming stick (I have a Saitek X52). For flight sims that have force trim, when you engage the force trim, will the stick lock at it's current position like a real helo cyclic? Say if you're hauling a** at 130 knots, will the "force trim" hold the stick forward when engaged? Or do these things just shake when you land or get shot at and stuff?
Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man.
|
|
|
CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|